2015, the beginning of ice free arctic?

[SSDD]

As I said earlier - you grab these things off blogs like they were gifts from god, don't check the facts, and then find out that most of the facts are false.

Look whose talking mr "world's foremost science academy" when in reality that "academy" was little more than a component of a clearing house for grants and funds...posting self published opinion pieces that reference no actual science and calling it science...

 

[johndoe]

will allow exploring with out ice in the way.. never know what may be found.

 

[ima]

To get back on topic....

Ya, so what?

It has to do with the topic of this thread, you clueless retard.

2015, the beginning of ice free arctic?

An ice free arctic will mean easier shipping, more oil, and most of all more warmth to the planet. YAY!!!

 

[Saigon]

As I said earlier - you grab these things off blogs like they were gifts from god, don't check the facts, and then find out that most of the facts are false.

Look whose talking mr "world's foremost science academy" when in reality that "academy" was little more than a component of a clearing house for grants and funds...posting self published opinion pieces that reference no actual science and calling it science...

SSDD -

You are a child.

The British Antarctic Survey is one of the most respected institutions in its field, and pretending otherwise only establishes that your interest in science is 0.

If you want to post honetly - go back and admit that your claims about NIWA were nonsense.

 

[SSDD]

If you want to post honetly - go back and admit that your claims about NIWA were nonsense.

Sure...just as soon as you admit that your so called science....wasn't.

 

[Saigon]

SSDD -

As I said - you are a child. And not an honest one, at that.

 

[IanC]

privatization is a red herring that has little to nothing to do with the fiasco of NIWA.

Except that much of the "fiasco" is entirely contrived.

As I said earlier - you grab these things off blogs like they were gifts from god, don't check the facts, and then find out that most of the facts are false.

And yet at no point do you actually admit or even apparently realise that you have been conned by your sources. the most amazing thing is - you will be conned against next week. You'll learn nothing from this experience.

And this is what it all really comes down to on these threads - we have posters who will not even look at research by the British Antarctic Survey - but will swallow anything they read on investors.com without a second thought.

Staggering.

btw. If you had read NIWA's only pages - and what kind of person would attack them without doing so? - you've have learned that the adjustments were only made because some stations had been moved over the years, and the data needed to be corrected for wind and altitude. The differences are absolutely infinitesimal.

sources? you seem to be very confused as to the power of 'sources'. you consider all of mine to be corrupt and dirty while you are sure that yours are all pristine and clean. personally I look at everyone as having a slant in the debate because they are going to promote the evidence in their favour and ignore the evidence against. but that does not change the evidence.

in the case of New Zealand the raw temperature data show almost no warming for the last 150 years. up until the last 35 years no one had any reason to screw around with the readings but there have been changes in thermometers, changes in station location, changes in urbanization and land use. so some adjustments do need to be made.

I personally have problems with the homogenization process and the urbanization correction. in NZ the trend is almost completely from adjustments. in Iceland the automated adjustments make no sense and no explanations have been forthcoming. in the US temps have gone up a couple of tenths of a degree (C) in the last few years and down a couple of tenths in pre-WWII readings. why such a huge change in the last dozen years? did we not know how to read a thermometer before 2000? or 2007?

I think you are the one being duped! do you not find it the least bit suspicious that the temperature record keeps changing, seemingly every year and all the way back to the beginning? do you not find it suspicious that UHI is found to be insignificant? (negative even, in Muller's case.)

I dont believe either side. I just keep adding more information and evidence to the piles. like most mainline skeptics I believe there has been some warming and that CO2 has had a small effect. I also believe that CO2 theory is fundementally wrong in thinking that CO2 is the control knob, and the preposterous predictions coming from climate computer models are wrong (even if they were right it would be a lucky guess rather than from skill).


many times in the past, especially in physics, refinements in measurements were delayed because a celebrated and respected scientist had made a poor first attempt, and those that followed would shade their new measurements to match up more closely to the poor one. I see this happening in climate science. Mann's hockey stick would get laughed at if it wwere submitted today. the NIWA chose adjustment methods that were almost completely different than Salinger's but were designed to get the same result. Jones' deeply flawed UHI paper in 1990 has influenced thinking on the subject ever since. to the point that Muller and his merry band actually found a way to show that it cooled cities. ahhh, sometimes it takes a very smart person to believe something stupid.

anyways Saigon, I will leave you to thinking that anyone who is conservative is trying to destroy the world and you can leave me to thinking climate science has painted themselves into a corner that they cannot get out of without losing face.

 

[IanC]

As I said earlier - you grab these things off blogs like they were gifts from god, don't check the facts, and then find out that most of the facts are false.

I will admit to having misremembered ancilliary facts like my incorrect personal conclusion that the NIWA was privatized after their meltdown when summoned to explain their methods. will you admit that the NIWA was gobsmacked when they found that they couldnt explain their work?

 

[Saigon]

Ian C -

Good sources are easy to find. I don't accept that it is difficult at all. Anyone can tell the difference between a genuine media source (e.g. BBC or FT) a scientific survey and the endless blogs and gossip sheets of cyberspace. The problem sceptics have is that so few genuine sources back your case - hence you are left with the gossip sheets.

in the case of New Zealand the raw temperature data show almost no warming for the last 150 years

How many Kiwis would agree with this?

I suspect somewhere between none and very few. The evidence of climate change in New Zealand is extroardinary - in particular that a country which had never had a tornado 5 years ago has now had 2, with both causing fatalities. The two glaciers are both melting, and the country stricken with floods in some areas (West Coast, Otago) and droughts (Marlborough) in others. And yes, warmer, later summers year-after-year.

I don't think conservatives are trying to destroy the world. Almost all conservatives accept AGW after all. Hence your comment doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Saigon]

As I said earlier - you grab these things off blogs like they were gifts from god, don't check the facts, and then find out that most of the facts are false.

I will admit to having misremembered ancilliary facts like my incorrect personal conclusion that the NIWA was privatized after their meltdown when summoned to explain their methods. will you admit that the NIWA was gobsmacked when they found that they couldnt explain their work?

Were they gobsmacked?

I have no idea...but I wouldn't have thought so. I think it was good that they were challenged, excellent that external consultants passed their work, and terrific that they could produce the 'Seven Stations' material again from scratch.

I appreciate your honesty here, anyway.

 

[RollingThunder]

Ya, so what?

It has to do with the topic of this thread, you clueless retard.

2015, the beginning of ice free arctic?

This thread is just one more thing to bookmark and trot out in 2015 to remind you guys just how wrong you are and to show you why you are rapidly losing influence in the world. You can only cry wolf so many times before people stop listening...and you can only be wrong so many times before people stop taking you seriously. There are a string of failed predictions coming from you guys going back to the 70's. This is just one more example.

The refreeze this year in the arctic has blown away all previous records and there is more ice up there now than there has been in a very long time. The models that predict an ice free arctic in 2015 didn't predict the sort of refreeze that has happened this winter.

As usual, you make it obvious that you're just making up this crap as you go along.

The predictions of the climate scientists have, in reality, proved to be pretty accurate. It is a denier cult myth that there have been "a string of failed predictions".

New Study: Scientists' Early Climate Predictions Prove Accurate
As politicians continue to neglect challenge, scientific work on global warming increasingly vindicated
December 10, 2012

Contrary To Contrarian Claims, IPCC Temperature Projections Have Been Exceptionally Accurate
Jan 3, 2013

Climate Science Predictions Prove Too Conservative
Checking 20 years worth of projections shows that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has consistently underestimated the pace and impacts of global warming
Scientific American
December 6, 2012


The Arctic ice is still much smaller in extent and volume than it was just a few years ago.

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis
National Snow and Ice Data Center
February 5, 2013
(excerpt)
The average sea ice extent for January 2013 was 13.78 million square kilometers (5.32 million square miles). This is 1.06 million square kilometers (409,000 square miles) below the 1979 to 2000 average for the month, and is the sixth-lowest January extent in the satellite record. The last ten years (2004 to 2013) have seen the ten lowest January extents in the satellite record.

New Satellite Shows Precise Extent Of The Arctic Sea Ice Loss
Maritime Security
February 20, 2013
(excerpts)
Current measurements of the ESA ice thickness satellite CryoSat-2 have shown that the total mass of the Arctic sea ice was 36 per cent smaller last autumn than during the same period in the years 2003 to 2008. Five years ago the autumn ice volumes averaged 11900 km3. But in the second quarter of 2012 they had declined to 7600 km3. This conclusion is reached by an international research team after comparing the CryoSat data of the past two years with measurements of a former NASA satellite and with the results of sea ice investigations of the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research. The study is published in the online issue of the scientific journal Geophysical Research Letters and for the first time shows how precisely scientists can observe the development of the Arctic sea ice using CryoSat-2. When the Arctic sea ice melted so far in the late summer of last year that a new negative record was set up, sea ice physicist Stefan Hendricks could not have been closer to the course of events – in the Central Arctic. He and colleagues set out with helicopters from the research vessel POLARSTERN to survey the thickness of the remaining ice with a sea ice sensor; and this over an area of more than 3500 kilometres. Stefan Hendricks and colleagues use such datasets to check the measurement method and the measurement results of the CryoSat-2 ice satellite which the ESA (European Space Agency) launched into space on 8 April 2010.

The satellite has a radar altimeter which measures the height of the ice surface above the sea beneath. CryoSat-2 circles the Earth on an orbit which brings it closer to the North Pole than any of its predecessors. Its 1000 metre wide radar beam travels almost once over the entire Arctic within one month, collects high resolution data and, unlike its predecessor ICESat, also penetrates cloud cover. This is exciting technology which is helping scientists to learn more: “We now know that the CryoSat measurement method functions well. With the assistance of the satellite we have been able for the first time to prepare a virtually complete ice thickness map of the Arctic”, says sea ice physicist and co-author Stefan Hendricks from the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Association for Polar and Marine Research (AWI). AWI sea ice experts have been measuring the thickness of the sea ice since 2003 in an ESA project. The CryoSat data from the past two years prove that the ice cover in the Arctic was some 36 per cent smaller in the autumn of 2012 and around 9 per cent smaller in the winter than in the same two periods in the years from 2003 to 2008. Whilst the autumn volume of the ice averaged 11900 km3 up to five years ago, it shrank in the fourth quarter of 2012 to 7600 km3 – representing a decrease of 4300 km3. By contrast, the winter volume dropped from 16300 km3 (2003-2008) to 14800 km3 (2010-2012), a loss totalling 1500 km3. The scientists primarily attribute these losses to the decline in the three to four metre thick, multiyear ice. “CryoSat data prove that this thick sea ice in a region to the north of Greenland, for example, at the Canadian Arctic Archipelago and also to the north east of Spitsbergen has disappeared”, says co-author Dr. Katharine Giles from University College London.

 

[ima]

When the arctic becomes ice free, I'm going for a swim with the narwals.

 

[RollingThunder]

When the arctic becomes ice free, I'm going for a swim with the narwals.

From the quality of your posts, I'd say it is far more likely that when the Arctic becomes ice free, you'll be in a mental hospital, assuming that you aren't already in one.

 

[skookerasbil]

When the arctic becomes ice free, I'm going for a swim with the narwals.

winning

These environmental nutters dont get it bro. They sit around this forum posting up the same shithole links over, and over, and over and over. This meathead Rolling Thunder has posted up those links above ( a couple of posts up) about 4,000 times in the past two years alone!!! And he calls everybody else a mental case!!!


Anyway......welcome into this forum bro......fun place to go and watch the environmental nutters get publically humiliated every day.

They never have a response to any of my stuff.............like THIS >>>>

And then there is this MOAB I dropped on the fuckkers last week............



Green fatigue sets in: the world cools on global warming
Worldwide concerns about climate change have dropped dramatically since 2009

Green fatigue sets in: the world cools on global warming - Climate Change - Environment - The Independent


These k00ks hate my ass.......and I wear it as a badge of honor.

I keep telling these meatheads that nobody cares about the science and then back it up with tons of evidence. Still, they keep on posting up the same nonsense crap. Most people learn that round pegs dont fit in square holes pretty early on. Not these OC's..........this is a religion we got here with these cheesedicks, but I cant complain. I get laughter by the boatloads in the forum.

 

[Old Rocks]

Price of residential energy. The most compelling graph I have seen for the installation of solar in one's home where ever practical.

 

[SSDD]

Price of residential energy. The most compelling graph I have seen for the installation of solar in one's home where ever practical.

It is a compelling graph if one wants to highlight the economic damage being done by the AGW hoax. There is more energy available than ever and it is costing more than ever as a result of regulations and taxes founded on a flawed hypothesis being driven by agenda driven politics.

 

[ima]

When the arctic becomes ice free, I'm going for a swim with the narwals.

From the quality of your posts, I'd say it is far more likely that when the Arctic becomes ice free, you'll be in a mental hospital, assuming that you aren't already in one.

You're the one freaking out over some melting snow and ice, not me. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully, it'll kill half the world's population, and humans will regain a natural balance with their environment. Mother Nature takes care of us, didn't you know?

 

[RollingThunder]

When the arctic becomes ice free, I'm going for a swim with the narwals.

From the quality of your posts, I'd say it is far more likely that when the Arctic becomes ice free, you'll be in a mental hospital, assuming that you aren't already in one.

You're the one freaking out over some melting snow and ice, not me. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully, it'll kill half the world's population, and humans will regain a natural balance with their environment. Mother Nature takes care of us, didn't you know?

So you "hope" for the death of "half the world's population", eh? Please go first.

And BTW, you couldn't have done a better job of confirming my point about you being quite insane if you had wanted to.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Whatever happened to the ICE in the Arctic? Its still there.....

I love going back in time to these threads and review the predicitons of doom and gloom...

 

[Sunsettommy]

Whatever happened to the ICE in the Arctic? Its still there.....

I love going back in time to these threads and review the predicitons of doom and gloom...

Yeah those Polar Bears have obstinately failed to leave the region, must be the flies..........