2/3 say ditch individual health care mandate

[Full-Auto]

The idea is to get EVERYONE health care. Cost is secondary to that goal. But cost is reduced by making sure EVERYBODY has access to quality health care. Fucking DUH!

Everyone does have access. you will need to try much harder.

Really? So my employer should simply eliminate our healthcare benefit, and I should go without any healthcare insurance,

because, according to you, my access to medical treatment and services would be unaffected...

Seriously?

I got to hear this.

You can go off on where ever your imagination takes you.

Go to the ER, there is your access.

Frame the issue properly.

 

[Polk]

Um, show up?

Show up where? You can go to the ER for emergency treatment, but what about chronic illness?

OK, Ypou asked a question and I answered it.
Now you want to change the debate.
There are community clinics that treat chronic illness.
Now you'll ask about meds. Dems will not be satisfied until everything remotely "medical" is "free."

I didn't change the debate. I asked about care. You're the one that wanted to pretend emergency care is the beginning and end of treatment. Community clinics are not an answer for chronic illness. They treat colds and sprained ankles, but they don't have the resources to provide treatment for diabetes and cancer. That's today, much less in a world where more employers are dropping coverage.

 

[8537]

People have been peddling this for years, but there is no evidence to support it. One of the common claims is that blacks were more likely to suffer from hypertension. Turns out it's purely a relic of social factors. Blacks in Africa have some of the lowest rates of hypertension in the world.

Another factoid exploded.

Blacks had higher rates for hypertension-related death than whites in all age groups (Figure 2). From 1981 through 1998, average annual increases in the hypertension-related death rate were 10.4% among blacks and 7.9% among whites for persons aged 85 years and older, 5.9% among blacks and 3.6% among whites for those aged 75-84 years, and 3.2% among blacks and 1.4% among whites for persons aged 65-74 years. Death rates remained relatively constant for persons aged 45-64 years (average annual changes of +0.7% for blacks and decrease of -1.0% for whites). By 1989-1998, blacks had 1.4 (p <0.05) times the death rates of whites at ages &#8805;85 years, 2.1 (p <0.01) times the rate at 75-84 years, 2.8 (p <0.01) times the rate at 65-74 years, and 4.2 (p <0.01) times the rates at ages 45-64 years.

Medscape: Medscape Access
Regardless of the factors it is the case.

Exploded? That doesn't undermine my statement in the least. All you've shown is that the rates are higher among blacks, not that it's higher because they're black, which was your original claim.

hmm...Maybe it has something to do with incomes, not genetics.

In the latest study, researchers found that lower household income was most strongly associated with elevated blood pressure.

Low Income, Less Education Tied to High Blood Pressure in Young Adults - DukeHealth.org

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Hope our politicians and the supreme court are listening:
"
Two-thirds of Americans say the U.S. Supreme Court should throw out either the individual mandate in the federal health care law or the law in its entirety, signaling the depth of public disagreement with that element of the Affordable Care Act.
This ABC News/Washington Post poll finds that Americans oppose the law overall by 52-41 percent. And 67 percent believe the high court should either ditch the law or at least the portion that requires nearly all Americans to have coverage."

The people never wanted it. This is a travesty like the abortion *law*. Nobody ever wanted it in the first place.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...ches-two-thirds-say-ditch-individual-mandate/

Which brings up the age-old question as to how susceptible the Supreme Court is to this kind of pressure....

I hope not at all...even if i agree with this specific pressure.


I prefer them to use the constitution, and the constitution only, when making such decisions.

 

[Polk]

It's weird that we're still having this debate 50 years after this paper.

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

The Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare as it is now called, is very possibly one of the absolute WORST pieces of legislation in the history of this nation. And here's the reasons why.

The major reason why we were told that Obamacare should be passed was that IT WOULD SAVE MONEY. Well guess what? Not only will it NOT save money, it literally will cost (at the time that I write this piece) up to 2 TRILLION dollars for the first ten years. The CBO has revised these estimates at least five times in the last two years and is working on the sixth time. The reason these numbers change so regularly? Why no one read the freakin thing and those that read it, do not understand how one piece affects another. Health insurance rates have gone up 15% since the passage of this monstrosity and is slated to continue to rise. So we going to raise taxes on everyone to cover this boon doggle?

The commerce clause. For the first time in history, the Congress has declared that if you are JUST A CITIZEN of this country, they have the right to make you purchase something. You don't have to do anything. You can sit in your house all day, but due to the Commerce clause of the Constitution, they have the right to make you purchase health insurance. There is something very basically wrong with this position. The Constitution of the United States LIMITS the reach of the federal government. IF the Supreme Court upholds this ground breaking new intrusion, then what is next?

Economics. Small business is hurting. What is the affect of Obamacare on small business in this country? Everyone knows that small business will NOT hire until they understand what affects this legislation will have on them. Right now, where do small business owners go to find out what they can expect in five years? Ten years? It will cost businesses LESS MONEY to pay the fines and drop their insurance plans all together. The promise that you "can keep the insurance that you have" is hollow. You can't keep it if your employer lets it go.

Taxes. One of Obama's big things is that he doesn't want to raise taxes on the middle class. So he wants the rich to pay more. Unfortunately, in 2014 if you sell your house 2 1/2% goes to the feds to help pay for Obamacare ON TOP of all the other fees/taxes you pay. Since the CBO has been looking at the numbers and obviously there's not going to be enough to pay for this monstrosity, taxes MUST rise. And how many of us believe that this tax won't hurt the middle class?

Beaurocracy. Have you been to the Social Security Office lately? I have to go about once a year for my daughter who is developmentally delayed. It is very possibly one of the WORST experiences of my life. It is exactly what I imagine HEALTH CARE HELL to be like. "Oh, but it'll be different with health care." Uh huh. Only an idiot would believe that a government office would be anything more than a beaurocrats wet dream.

We could have done better. This thing is a night mare.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's weird that we're still having this debate 50 years after this paper.

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

There is no debate to be had, the constitution does not give the federal govt such authority over the citizens.

 

[Polk]

It's weird that we're still having this debate 50 years after this paper.

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

There is no debate to be had, the constitution does not give the federal govt such authority over the citizens.

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's weird that we're still having this debate 50 years after this paper.

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

There is no debate to be had, the constitution does not give the federal govt such authority over the citizens.

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

 

[Polk]

There is no debate to be had, the constitution does not give the federal govt such authority over the citizens.

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

How do you feel about the Ryan plan? What about private accounts for Social Security?

 

[Syphon]

There is no debate to be had, the constitution does not give the federal govt such authority over the citizens.

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

 

[Polk]

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

Further, the idea that the Founding Fathers would be spinning in their graves over requiring people to buy a private good is funny... considering the Militia Act of 1792 did exactly that.

 

[Jarhead]

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

who is saying it isnt interstae commerce.

It is.

What does that have to do with Government forcing you to buy something under penalty of law?

When has that ever happened before?

And to add....we now ALSO have government forcing a bhusiness owner to offer a service even if it doesnt want to.

When has THAT ever happened before?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Everyone does have access. you will need to try much harder.

Really? So my employer should simply eliminate our healthcare benefit, and I should go without any healthcare insurance,

because, according to you, my access to medical treatment and services would be unaffected...

Seriously?

I got to hear this.

You can go off on where ever your imagination takes you.

Go to the ER, there is your access.

Frame the issue properly.

So a person without the ability to pay has only extremely limited access to healthcare.

That's what you meant to say.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Polk I'm not a fan of Ryans Plan for one of the same reasons I don't like Obamacare (affordable care act)...it is too wide ranging and not specific enough. If he wants to try and deal with social security, which i find to be an overreach of federal authority violating the constitution, then he should do it in its own bill

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

I purchase my health insurance in state and don't use it in other states, my company is based in my home state, there is nothing interstate about it.

However that really doesn't matter...for the federal govt has no constitional authority, even under the interstate commerce clause, to force a private citizen to buy a product from a private corporation or face govt penalties.

 

[Polk]

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

who is saying it isnt interstae commerce.

It is.

What does that have to do with Government forcing you to buy something under penalty of law?

When has that ever happened before?

And to add....we now ALSO have government forcing a bhusiness owner to offer a service even if it doesnt want to.

When has THAT ever happened before?

What service are businesses being forced to offer?

 

[Jarhead]

Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. This regulation is part of the rational basis of Congress to advance a Constitutional end.

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

How do you feel about the Ryan plan? What about private accounts for Social Security?

Private SS accounts?

I am 100% for it.

The government is forcing me to save money....I dont need them to force me to do it...I do it becuase it isd what I need to do.....I dont need daddy to do it for me.
I am an adult.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

Further, the idea that the Founding Fathers would be spinning in their graves over requiring people to buy a private good is funny... considering the Militia Act of 1792 did exactly that.

And the militia act was wrong for doing so, just like the affordable care act is wrong.....next strawman please.

 

[Syphon]

Polk I'm not a fan of Ryans Plan for one of the same reasons I don't like Obamacare (affordable care act)...it is too wide ranging and not specific enough. If he wants to try and deal with social security, which i find to be an overreach of federal authority violating the constitution, then he should do it in its own bill

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

i challenge you to prove that health insurance is not interstate commerce. when you travel from state to state, does your health insurance not follow you? or do you have to purchase a different product for each state which you travel through?

I purchase my health insurance in state and don't use it in other states, my company is based in my home state, there is nothing interstate about it.

However that really doesn't matter...for the federal govt has no constitional authority, even under the interstate commerce clause, to force a private citizen to buy a product from a private corporation or face govt penalties.

so youve never gone on vacation? never traveled outside your home state for any reason?

 

[Polk]

Regulating interstate commerce and forcing individual citizens to buy insurance from a private corporation or face penalties/fines are not the same.

How do you feel about the Ryan plan? What about private accounts for Social Security?

Private SS accounts?

I am 100% for it.

The government is forcing me to save money....I dont need them to force me to do it...I do it becuase it isd what I need to do.....I dont need daddy to do it for me.
I am an adult.

So the government forcing people to buy health insurance is unconstitutional, but forcing them to open a brokerage account at Fidelity isn't? What makes these two things different?