14 and 17 year old injured in shooting, why can't guns be banned?

[2aguy]

Yep.....a 14 year old boy was shot in the head and a 17 year old was seriously injured in a shooting......why can't they ban guns......?

Oh, right......they did.....because this shooting happened in London....you know, in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns......and now the gun crime rate in London is up 42% last year......

Two dead and boy, 14, critical after 12 hours of terrifying violence

The schoolboy was blasted with a shotgun in east London and is said to critically ill in hospital today while his 17-year-old friend was seriously injured.

The shooting follows a series of tit-for-tat stabbings and shootings in Newham and police immediately ordered sweeping stop and search powers to come into force amid fears of a retaliation.

Tit for tat shootings? In Britain? But...they banned guns. But....they confiscated guns....right?


The schoolboy had been sitting talking with friends in a car park on an estate in Forest Gate when a gunman opened fire from close range.

The boy was struck in the head with pellets from the blast while a 17-year-old suffered what police described as a “life changing” injury to his leg.

Doctors from a nearby GP surgery rushed outside to help the victims after the shooting at just after 3pm .

-----

The man, who did not want to be named, said: “They were just sitting there talking, and then this guy just came from behind and shot him.

“Fourteen-years-old, what can you do to get shot in the head with a shotgun?”

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

 

[Camp]

All guns have not been banned in Great Britain. They are still available with a license, hence, those that are legally owned are subject to theft or misuse by the licensed owner.

 

[BULLDOG]

All guns have not been banned in Great Britain. They are still available with a license, hence, those that are legally owned are subject to theft or misuse by the licensed owner.

Don't try to bring logic and reason into this. A full blown gun nut is trying to make a point. Just sit back and watch the amazing contortions he goes through.

 

[VictoriasExoticGirl]

Any death by gun is horrible, in my opinion.

 

[JoeB131]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Oh, no, he's going to spooge gun nut propaganda!

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

Again, they have 48 gun murders a year, and we have 11,000. I'll take their numbers any day of the week.

 

[2aguy]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Oh, no, he's going to spooge gun nut propaganda!

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

Again, they have 48 gun murders a year, and we have 11,000. I'll take their numbers any day of the week.

Then you will have to trade their criminals for our criminals....is that possible? Their criminals, in the past, have not been prone to murdering each other....our kill each other over facebook insults...different criminal cultures.

However, as their welfare state has created more and more single teenage girl mothers, their ability to civilize their poor, young males is failing....their level of violence...and gun crime, is increasing....while our gun crime rate is decreasing....

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

 

[Peach]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Nor are firearms "banned"; tightly controlled, yes. But not banned.

In the United Kingdom, access by the general public to firearms is tightly controlled by law which is much more restrictive than the minimum rules required by the European Firearms Directive, but it is less restrictive in Northern Ireland. The country has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world.[1] There were 0.05 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in the five years to 2011 (15 to 38 people per annum). Gun homicides accounted for 2.4% of all homicides in the year 2011.[2] There is some concern over the availability of illegal firearms.[3][4][5]Office for National Statistics figures show 7,866 offences in which firearms were involved in the year ending March 2015, 2% up on the previous year and the first increase in 10 years. Of these 19 were fatalities, 10 fewer than the previous year and the lowest since records began in 1969.[6] There was a further rise to 8,399 in the year ending March 2016, the highest number in four years, but significantly lower than the all-time high of 24,094 in 2003/04. Twenty-six resulted in fatal injuries.

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Nor are firearms "banned"; tightly controlled, yes. But not banned.

In the United Kingdom, access by the general public to firearms is tightly controlled by law which is much more restrictive than the minimum rules required by the European Firearms Directive, but it is less restrictive in Northern Ireland. The country has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world.[1] There were 0.05 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in the five years to 2011 (15 to 38 people per annum). Gun homicides accounted for 2.4% of all homicides in the year 2011.[2] There is some concern over the availability of illegal firearms.[3][4][5]Office for National Statistics figures show 7,866 offences in which firearms were involved in the year ending March 2015, 2% up on the previous year and the first increase in 10 years. Of these 19 were fatalities, 10 fewer than the previous year and the lowest since records began in 1969.[6] There was a further rise to 8,399 in the year ending March 2016, the highest number in four years, but significantly lower than the all-time high of 24,094 in 2003/04. Twenty-six resulted in fatal injuries.

Sorry to burst your bubble....the anti-gunners tell us that Britain banned and confiscated guns......and that it reduced their crime problem.....both of which are not true......

And sorry....Britain is having a problem with handguns.....

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

 

[JoeB131]

Then you will have to trade their criminals for our criminals....is that possible? Their criminals, in the past, have not been prone to murdering each other....our kill each other over facebook insults...different criminal cultures.

No, their criminals don't have easy access to guns. ours do.

This really, really isn't complicated.

 

[eflatminor]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Who gives a shit HOW someone murders someone else? It's the murder rate that matters, regardless of the method used.

And in that sense, there are over 100 countries with higher murder rates than the US and they all have a de facto ban on civilian firearm ownership. Banning guns doesn't stop people from killing. It does ensure good people are at a tactical disadvantage against criminals that couldn't give two shits about the rules. So that's helpful...

More importantly, molon labe.

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

I have studies that show that armed Americans do lower the crime rate, though the biggest factor is police...since they actually solve and capture criminals.....but armed Americans can and do lower the crime rate.

As to the Pew result? What it shows is that everything you believe about guns and Americans owning guns is wrong. You guys keep telling us that more guns in more hands = more crime and more gun crime......and as over 20 years of actual gun ownership in the United States shows....that isn't true...so the fundamental argument you guys make for taking guns away from Americans....has no factual basis...at all....

And the data from Britain...shows that doing what you want...banning and confiscating guns.....does not lower the gun crime rate....and in fact, can lead to it going up...since gun crime in London went up 42% just last year, and their violent crime rate is through the roof......

 

[2aguy]

Then you will have to trade their criminals for our criminals....is that possible? Their criminals, in the past, have not been prone to murdering each other....our kill each other over facebook insults...different criminal cultures.

No, their criminals don't have easy access to guns. ours do.

This really, really isn't complicated.

Their criminals are getting guns easily...and they are using them more....as every story I post shows.....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

You keep claiming firearms cause MORE murder more violence yet in the States that is FLATLY proven wrong since the number of firearms went UP and crime went DOWN dumb ass.

 

[xotoxi]

I have a strict ban of firearms in my house.

 

[Peach]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Who gives a shit HOW someone murders someone else? It's the murder rate that matters, regardless of the method used.

And in that sense, there are over 100 countries with higher murder rates than the US and they all have a de facto ban on civilian firearm ownership. Banning guns doesn't stop people from killing. It does ensure good people are at a tactical disadvantage against criminals that couldn't give two shits about the rules. So that's helpful...

More importantly, molon labe.

Worst school killing in history was from a fire started intentionally.