137 children removed from polygamist ranch

[bennylava]

Let's keep in mind that the problem is here not polygamy per se, it is child molestation!

 

[AllieBaba]

And abuse.

 

[Shogun]

NT, of course. Jesus fulfilled the law. We no longer have to maintain the strict law of the OT to attain heaven.

I'm sure you already know that, though, biblical scholar that you are.

And, if we were merely talking about salvation for gentiels you might have had a point.. BUT, since we are talking about polygamy and how it is not at all condemned in the NT, indeed, rife in the OT.. AND, given that you don't just get to pick and choose which part of the bible you observe like a pharisee shirking hebrew tradition... If genesis is good enough for the public science class then it's good for every other cultural aspect reflected, eh?


I'll ask again.. would you like to spar with scripture?

 

[AllieBaba]

Your logic is jumbled.

It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not. Jesus fulfilled scripture, therefore the OT laws have been fulfilled, and are no longer particularly necessary for the achievement of heaven. Jesus told us to believe, and love one another, and all the rest would follow. THat's the NT.

Even if you go OT, the OT tells us that men should cherish their wives as themselves, and has some pretty specific punishments for those who sleep with family members and children.

So either way you cut it, you aren't going to find many believers who support this sort of behavior. Yeah, cults come out all the time with bizarre takes on scripture. But they are not particularly prevalent.

 

[Ravi]

It's not just the girls... It's all of them. They all have been taught this crap from the day they where born. Unlike the Branch Davidians where they met this guy or other followers and followed. They ate, drank and lived this crazy lifestyle their entire lives, so did their parents and their grandparents. It's going to take MAJOR deprogramming. I hope that LDS steps up to the challenge to help bring them forward 100 yrs.

That would be a good thing for LDS to do...what's Mitten up to these days?

 

[bennylava]

There was a group that Dr. Phil (I know, I know) was working with a few years ago, they were having some good success with debrainwashing some of the young women who were rescued or escaped. They also worked with the young men who had been ostracized for being a threat to the old men who wanted more young wives.

 

[Shogun]

Your logic is jumbled.

It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not. Jesus fulfilled scripture, therefore the OT laws have been fulfilled, and are no longer particularly necessary for the achievement of heaven. Jesus told us to believe, and love one another, and all the rest would follow. THat's the NT.

Even if you go OT, the OT tells us that men should cherish their wives as themselves, and has some pretty specific punishments for those who sleep with family members and children.

So either way you cut it, you aren't going to find many believers who support this sort of behavior. Yeah, cults come out all the time with bizarre takes on scripture. But they are not particularly prevalent.

My logic isn't jumbled at all. You are stalling because you know damn well that the earlier book of the bible, a tome you similarly revere, is chock full of polygamy.. among LOTS of other things like rape, incest, murder, conquest etc etc. What did jebus say about the OT?


Matthew 5:17-18

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.


Luke 16:16-17

16 "The law and the prophets were in effect until John came; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone tries to enter it by force. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter in the law to be dropped.


Tell me, Baba, WERE Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon polygamists?

 

[AllieBaba]

Er..."Fulfill".

Moron. The law is fulfilled, and now there's a new and better way to heaven, one that doesn't require works alone.

And all those were polygamists. What's your point?

 

[Angel Heart]

That would be a good thing for LDS to do...what's Mitten up to these days?

If the church as a whole is anything like my LDS friends, they will step up to the bat and help.

 

[AllieBaba]

The kids were bussed away in Baptist church busses. The churches are already stepping up to the bat.

 

[bennylava]

I hope they get the help that they need.

 

[Angel Heart]

The kids were bussed away in Baptist church busses. The churches are already stepping up to the bat.

Not just any churches. LDS needs to. They will better understand and teach them to live in the normal world as a LDS. For another to step in and then say that their book is a sin (and the Baptist will) and can't be taught from will increase the chances of them running off and starting smaller groups again.

 

[AllieBaba]

These people operate outside the auspices of the LDS church. I don't see why the onus would be on them alone to step up.

Really, the demonization of the Baptist church is a bit much, when obviously they're already in there up to their elbows.

 

[Ravi]

I agree with Angel. The LDS church is close enough in practice and it would probably be a better thing for the kids to have some continuity of belief...without the sexual slavery.

 

[Angel Heart]

Oh there's not... http://www.slate.com/id/2180391/

Baptist are extremely anti-LDS. They will say that they are not Christian unless they do away with the book of Mormon. That they are living in sin if they follow that book.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm a Baptist. I'm not anti-LDS at all. My dad was LDS, my grandparents, cousins, friends.

 

[Angel Heart]

I'm not tied to any church. I was raise non-denominational but my family has over all been Baptist. First anti-LDS movie I ever saw was in a Baptist church. There's a lot of hate between the two. I wouldn't want the LDS stepping in if a wacko Baptist (Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind) church needed aid like this. They would teach them that being Baptist is a sin. Just like the Baptist will do to the FLDS members.

 

[AllieBaba]

And a secular would teach them that all religion is bad. It doesn't make any difference. They're in for a rude awakening either way.

 

[Ravi]

She isn't proposing a secular anything. She's proposing the LDS church help them out. It makes perfect sense, why do you have a problem with it?

 

[AllieBaba]

I just don't see why the LDS should be more responsible for them than anybody else. They don't approve of this sort of thing, I don't see why they should be more on the spot than anybody else.