12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[Daryl Hunt]

its you that wants to take away RIGHTS , all i want you people to do is to leave American Gun Owners alone Daryl Hunt .

You don't like the laws of our state, I suggest you stay the hell out of it instead of demanding we do exactly as you demand that you want. But if you come here, you WILL follow the law. Our people have spoken.

---------------------------------- you always try to make things personal to YOUR state or how YOU do things . Gun Control and prohibition is a USA Wide concern , not just your lefty little state whichever it is Daryl Hunt .

It's not personal to you? You could have fooled me (not). And I keep pointing out that it's more a States issue than a Federal one since the the Federals are essentially powerless in making an real impact on Gun Regulations. We spent millions and went through 3 mass killings to come up with a common sense set of laws that works and didn't do anything that the Boogyman naysayers claim it would. We still have freedoms and can buy, possess, transport and use our firearms without any hassles. I like to call it Common Sense Gun Regulations. This was accomplished by both sides of the aisle including through a Republican Controlled State Senate. Then there is the education at the local levels. But to learn to do this, we paid dearly for it in the loss of family. The first step was to stop the hate that you and yours keep spewing. Until that is stopped the battle and the shootings will continue. Just not around here. If that makes me an armed crazy liberal, I can live with that..

 

[Daryl Hunt]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

and what would that be?

california already has the strictest gun laws on the books. you even have to register bullets these days. more laws? or are we now giving up the "we're not coming for your guns" pretense and just going after them now?

so i'm honestly asking - while it's easy to demand SOMETHING be done - what is it you're suggesting?

It was already done. He used the weapon he had easy access to. He used a handgun. He didn't have access to the weapon of choice for the Fashionable Mass Shooter. Californias law did not stop it but it did keep the body count down and if that is all you can do then do it. Around here, we took a different track on things but it essentially works out the same. The weapon of choice for the well dress mass killer can be had in at least every gun shop on almost every street corner but the mags are limited. All of a sudden it became no more deadly than a Glock since it is limited to the same limits. And as time goes by, the 30 and 50 round mags will just fade away and the norm becomes the 10 and 15 round mags. All of a sudden, it's not so glamorous. And that is exactly what you and your bunch have done. You have glamorized the AR to the point where it's reached cult status. So California has a win/lose on this one. No laws could have made it better but due to it's laws, it kept it from being worse.

 

[iceberg]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

and what would that be?

california already has the strictest gun laws on the books. you even have to register bullets these days. more laws? or are we now giving up the "we're not coming for your guns" pretense and just going after them now?

so i'm honestly asking - while it's easy to demand SOMETHING be done - what is it you're suggesting?

It was already done. He used the weapon he had easy access to. He used a handgun. He didn't have access to the weapon of choice for the Fashionable Mass Shooter. Californias law did not stop it but it did keep the body count down and if that is all you can do then do it. Around here, we took a different track on things but it essentially works out the same. The weapon of choice for the well dress mass killer can be had in at least every gun shop on almost every street corner but the mags are limited. All of a sudden it became no more deadly than a Glock since it is limited to the same limits. And as time goes by, the 30 and 50 round mags will just fade away and the norm becomes the 10 and 15 round mags. All of a sudden, it's not so glamorous. And that is exactly what you and your bunch have done. You have glamorized the AR to the point where it's reached cult status. So California has a win/lose on this one. No laws could have made it better but due to it's laws, it kept it from being worse.

who's the one demonizing the AR even when it's not used?

that would be you.

just stop. all the crap you spew out of emotional butt-hurt is still crap.

 

[2aguy]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

and what would that be?

california already has the strictest gun laws on the books. you even have to register bullets these days. more laws? or are we now giving up the "we're not coming for your guns" pretense and just going after them now?

so i'm honestly asking - while it's easy to demand SOMETHING be done - what is it you're suggesting?

It was already done. He used the weapon he had easy access to. He used a handgun. He didn't have access to the weapon of choice for the Fashionable Mass Shooter. Californias law did not stop it but it did keep the body count down and if that is all you can do then do it. Around here, we took a different track on things but it essentially works out the same. The weapon of choice for the well dress mass killer can be had in at least every gun shop on almost every street corner but the mags are limited. All of a sudden it became no more deadly than a Glock since it is limited to the same limits. And as time goes by, the 30 and 50 round mags will just fade away and the norm becomes the 10 and 15 round mags. All of a sudden, it's not so glamorous. And that is exactly what you and your bunch have done. You have glamorized the AR to the point where it's reached cult status. So California has a win/lose on this one. No laws could have made it better but due to it's laws, it kept it from being worse.

The killer in Crimea two weeks ago used a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and murdered 21 people, not 12. You are the mopes who have made the AR-15 glamorous by calling it a weapon of war, a mass killing weapon...you did that, and then you keep the gun free zones so that normal people are unarmed in the face of killers...that too is on you.

 

[2aguy]

its you that wants to take away RIGHTS , all i want you people to do is to leave American Gun Owners alone Daryl Hunt .

You don't like the laws of our state, I suggest you stay the hell out of it instead of demanding we do exactly as you demand that you want. But if you come here, you WILL follow the law. Our people have spoken.

Yes....which is exactly what the democrats said when they created the Jim Crow laws.....if you don't like them, move..... but that isn't the way Rights work in this country. You do not lose Constitutional Rights based on where you live......and owning and carrying a gun for self defense is a Constitutional Right.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

The AR 15 operates exactly like every other semiautomatic rifle that is available to civilians

How many times do you have to be told that the only difference between the AR and any other rifle of the same caliber is cosmetic and cosmetic only?

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

 

[iceberg]

The AR 15 operates exactly like every other semiautomatic rifle that is available to civilians

How many times do you have to be told that the only difference between the AR and any other rifle of the same caliber is cosmetic and cosmetic only?

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

and what would that be?

california already has the strictest gun laws on the books. you even have to register bullets these days. more laws? or are we now giving up the "we're not coming for your guns" pretense and just going after them now?

so i'm honestly asking - while it's easy to demand SOMETHING be done - what is it you're suggesting?

It was already done. He used the weapon he had easy access to. He used a handgun. He didn't have access to the weapon of choice for the Fashionable Mass Shooter. Californias law did not stop it but it did keep the body count down and if that is all you can do then do it. Around here, we took a different track on things but it essentially works out the same. The weapon of choice for the well dress mass killer can be had in at least every gun shop on almost every street corner but the mags are limited. All of a sudden it became no more deadly than a Glock since it is limited to the same limits. And as time goes by, the 30 and 50 round mags will just fade away and the norm becomes the 10 and 15 round mags. All of a sudden, it's not so glamorous. And that is exactly what you and your bunch have done. You have glamorized the AR to the point where it's reached cult status. So California has a win/lose on this one. No laws could have made it better but due to it's laws, it kept it from being worse.

The killer in Crimea two weeks ago used a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and murdered 21 people, not 12. You are the mopes who have made the AR-15 glamorous by calling it a weapon of war, a mass killing weapon...you did that, and then you keep the gun free zones so that normal people are unarmed in the face of killers...that too is on you.

So you bring up something from a war torn area lime Crimea. You know, the kind of place where when they aren't too busy making wine and cheese, they are busy killing each other. Crimea is one giant war zone. Is that what you want to see in the United States? You are using a srawman on this one.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The AR 15 operates exactly like every other semiautomatic rifle that is available to civilians

How many times do you have to be told that the only difference between the AR and any other rifle of the same caliber is cosmetic and cosmetic only?

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

It has been reported he had a 26 round mag for his .45

 

[pismoe]

The AR 15 operates exactly like every other semiautomatic rifle that is available to civilians

How many times do you have to be told that the only difference between the AR and any other rifle of the same caliber is cosmetic and cosmetic only?

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

---------------------------- [chuckle] Darryl Hunt .

 

[2aguy]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

and what would that be?

california already has the strictest gun laws on the books. you even have to register bullets these days. more laws? or are we now giving up the "we're not coming for your guns" pretense and just going after them now?

so i'm honestly asking - while it's easy to demand SOMETHING be done - what is it you're suggesting?

It was already done. He used the weapon he had easy access to. He used a handgun. He didn't have access to the weapon of choice for the Fashionable Mass Shooter. Californias law did not stop it but it did keep the body count down and if that is all you can do then do it. Around here, we took a different track on things but it essentially works out the same. The weapon of choice for the well dress mass killer can be had in at least every gun shop on almost every street corner but the mags are limited. All of a sudden it became no more deadly than a Glock since it is limited to the same limits. And as time goes by, the 30 and 50 round mags will just fade away and the norm becomes the 10 and 15 round mags. All of a sudden, it's not so glamorous. And that is exactly what you and your bunch have done. You have glamorized the AR to the point where it's reached cult status. So California has a win/lose on this one. No laws could have made it better but due to it's laws, it kept it from being worse.

The killer in Crimea two weeks ago used a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and murdered 21 people, not 12. You are the mopes who have made the AR-15 glamorous by calling it a weapon of war, a mass killing weapon...you did that, and then you keep the gun free zones so that normal people are unarmed in the face of killers...that too is on you.

So you bring up something from a war torn area lime Crimea. You know, the kind of place where when they aren't too busy making wine and cheese, they are busy killing each other. Crimea is one giant war zone. Is that what you want to see in the United States? You are using a srawman on this one.

Moron..... the shooter used a 5 shot, pump action shotguns against the students of a Technical college...you moron... they were students in college....he killed 21 of them with that 5 shot, pump action shotgun.... it is the gun free zone that allowed him to do it, and no one being able to shoot back and stop him.

 

[2aguy]

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

Moron....the worst school shooting in the U.S. was done with 2 pistols at Virginia Tech...32 dead.... you don't know what you are talking about. Luby's cafe, 26 dead with 2 pistols.

 

[2aguy]

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Exactly, he had a .45 pistol and killed 12.... the guy in Crimea had a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and killed 21.....

 

[iceberg]

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

he was a former marine - he could likely have gotten whatever he wanted. unless you have proof he was upset that he couldn't get an AR, shut the fuck up and quit making this up to fit your narrative.

 

[hunarcy]

You shouldnt be using weapons that look but more importantly function like a war weapon. You shouldnt be using a pump action shotgun unless you are defending your home.

The pump action shotgun is an actual, current War weapon...... used by our military all over the world......the AR-15 has never been used in a war....

Thats why a pump action shotgun should never be carried in public. The AR-15 looks just like the M16A! rifle so that should be banned.

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I've gone into the gun afficianado magazines and read many articles that explain why the AR is so popular. Being a gun nut, I'm sure you realize why they are so popular. So don't try telling me it's only that it looks cooler. I know better.

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Easy answer. I don't have nearly his skill set but using my own, I could have killed at least 30 in a matter of a few seconds with the right weapon. With his skill set, if anyone had not fled, they would have been a casualty if not a body count. His score, out of a possible 62, could have easily been 55 with the right weapon that is NOT available in his area so easily. Nor is the 30 round mags he would need.

He used a Glock 21 with a 30 round extended mag. He only had that one mag. Normally the stock mag held 10 so I imagine he had that with him as well and could have expended the 30 round and changed to the 10 round clip. That's a complete total of 40 rounds available to him. Each fatality means 1 round The normal Mass Shooter uses a 30 round mag and has at least 3 other 30 round mags and can reload in less than a second on the "Weapon of Choice". That means 120 rounds and he can expend all 120 rounds in about a minute. In a packed target rich area like that, he could have hit 3 people with each round. Do the math on this one. By depriving him of the "Weapon of Choice" he used a handgun with only one maybe two clips with a total of 40 rounds. The other Mass Murders would be ashamed of him.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The pump action shotgun is an actual, current War weapon...... used by our military all over the world......the AR-15 has never been used in a war....

Thats why a pump action shotgun should never be carried in public. The AR-15 looks just like the M16A! rifle so that should be banned.

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

he was a former marine - he could likely have gotten whatever he wanted. unless you have proof he was upset that he couldn't get an AR, shut the fuck up and quit making this up to fit your narrative.

There you go again. I am not saying EXACTLY what you want to hear therefore I have no right to say it. When are you going to start that roundup of us for the camps? Is that what is going to happen next?