12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[Skull Pilot]

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Easy answer. I don't have nearly his skill set but using my own, I could have killed at least 30 in a matter of a few seconds with the right weapon. With his skill set, if anyone had not fled, they would have been a casualty if not a body count. His score, out of a possible 62, could have easily been 55 with the right weapon that is NOT available in his area so easily. Nor is the 30 round mags he would need.

He used a Glock 21 with a 30 round extended mag. He only had that one mag. Normally the stock mag held 10 so I imagine he had that with him as well and could have expended the 30 round and changed to the 10 round clip. That's a complete total of 40 rounds available to him. Each fatality means 1 round The normal Mass Shooter uses a 30 round mag and has at least 3 other 30 round mags and can reload in less than a second on the "Weapon of Choice". That means 120 rounds and he can expend all 120 rounds in about a minute. In a packed target rich area like that, he could have hit 3 people with each round. Do the math on this one. By depriving him of the "Weapon of Choice" he used a handgun with only one maybe two clips with a total of 40 rounds. The other Mass Murders would be ashamed of him.

again so what

He also threw smoke bombs into the building

Speculation that he would have killed more with a different weapon is meaningless

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Exactly, he had a .45 pistol and killed 12.... the guy in Crimea had a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and killed 21.....

Strawman Alert!!!

 

[pismoe]

Thats why a pump action shotgun should never be carried in public. The AR-15 looks just like the M16A! rifle so that should be banned.

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

-------------------------- she can say anything she wants , some would call her stupid , i call her naive and unamerican Daryl Hunt .

 

[pismoe]

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

he was a former marine - he could likely have gotten whatever he wanted. unless you have proof he was upset that he couldn't get an AR, shut the fuck up and quit making this up to fit your narrative.

There you go again. I am not saying EXACTLY what you want to hear therefore I have no right to say it. When are you going to start that roundup of us for the camps? Is that what is going to happen next?

----------------------------------- you sound like a cwy babby Daryl Hunt .

 

[hunarcy]

Thats why a pump action shotgun should never be carried in public. The AR-15 looks just like the M16A! rifle so that should be banned.

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

I never called for her right to express herself to be limited, you fascist pig. Stop jumping into the middle of a thread when you don't have CLUE what's being said.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Easy answer. I don't have nearly his skill set but using my own, I could have killed at least 30 in a matter of a few seconds with the right weapon. With his skill set, if anyone had not fled, they would have been a casualty if not a body count. His score, out of a possible 62, could have easily been 55 with the right weapon that is NOT available in his area so easily. Nor is the 30 round mags he would need.

He used a Glock 21 with a 30 round extended mag. He only had that one mag. Normally the stock mag held 10 so I imagine he had that with him as well and could have expended the 30 round and changed to the 10 round clip. That's a complete total of 40 rounds available to him. Each fatality means 1 round The normal Mass Shooter uses a 30 round mag and has at least 3 other 30 round mags and can reload in less than a second on the "Weapon of Choice". That means 120 rounds and he can expend all 120 rounds in about a minute. In a packed target rich area like that, he could have hit 3 people with each round. Do the math on this one. By depriving him of the "Weapon of Choice" he used a handgun with only one maybe two clips with a total of 40 rounds. The other Mass Murders would be ashamed of him.

again so what

He also threw smoke bombs into the building

Speculation that he would have killed more with a different weapon is meaningless

Handguns are not nearly as regulated as semi auto rifles. And in 7 states, the AR along with the AR support equipment are banned. California is one of those 7. The AR is the weapon of choice for the Well Dressed In Fashion Mass Killer in places like Nevada, Florida and Texas. And the pockets holding the extra Mags are fashionable and to just die for. It doesn't appear there was any great planning involved. With his skill sets he really didn't need much of a plan. But there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that if he had access to an AR and 4 30 round Mags he would have use that instead of the Glock. The Glock can be purchased at any gun shop in California with just an ID. The extended Clip can be ordered through the Internet. But an AR can't be purchased at ANY guns shop in California and the 30 round mags could be ordered through the internet though. If he had taken his time and actually planned it out, he might have use the more Fashionable Mass Murder Trappings. But he didn't take that time of having to go out of the state, use a fake ID, lie about himself on the gun checks or run down a gun show and lie with a fake ID to be more "Fashionable". Compared to the other Mass Killers he was a street urchin.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

he was a former marine - he could likely have gotten whatever he wanted. unless you have proof he was upset that he couldn't get an AR, shut the fuck up and quit making this up to fit your narrative.

There you go again. I am not saying EXACTLY what you want to hear therefore I have no right to say it. When are you going to start that roundup of us for the camps? Is that what is going to happen next?

----------------------------------- you sound like a cwy babby Daryl Hunt .

You are afraid of what I have to say. You keep trying to make other afraid of what you are saying. Newsflash: We are on to your bunch. The only group that might be scared anymore are a bunch of 7 year olds and I doubt we have too many of them posting in here. So keep crying in your milk. The Jig is Up.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

-------------------------- she can say anything she wants , some would call her stupid , i call her naive and unamerican Daryl Hunt .

Or someone could call you Unamerican for trying to stop her from saying anything she wants. You aren't a Patriot. You are a Nationalist.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

I never called for her right to express herself to be limited, you fascist pig. Stop jumping into the middle of a thread when you don't have CLUE what's being said.

Since you are into power games and childish behavior, Make Me.

 

[hunarcy]

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

-------------------------- she can say anything she wants , some would call her stupid , i call her naive and unamerican Daryl Hunt .

Or someone could call you Unamerican for trying to stop her from saying anything she wants. You aren't a Patriot. You are a Nationalist.

What nation is he advocating freedom for?

Or, are you unaware of what natonalist means?

 

[hunarcy]

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

I never called for her right to express herself to be limited, you fascist pig. Stop jumping into the middle of a thread when you don't have CLUE what's being said.

Since you are into power games and childish behavior, Make Me.

You are NOTHING more than a stupid troll and I won't waste one second further on your posts.

 

[pismoe]

I don't care if it's pink and wears panties. Regardless of what it looks like, its function makes it totally inappropriate for civilian ownership. We are NOT at war; the AR was modeled directly on the M16 (which is why it looks like one) and has one purpose. People don't use it to hunt; they use it play Rambo.

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

-------------------------- she can say anything she wants , some would call her stupid , i call her naive and unamerican Daryl Hunt .

---------------------------- as already said , see right above . She can say what she likes . i like seeing unamerican posters that reveal themselve to other board readers . Just be aware as she is allowed to vote . 'suzy b. anthony' gave her that 'permission' Daryl Hunt .

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Other way around. The M-16 was modeled from the AR-15 Model 601 originally purchased by many third world countries and the USAF. The Army bought it but cheapened it up a bit to save money, used their own garbage dirty powder, didn't buy the cleaning kits that is supposed to be held in the stock but added a rail for the M-203 and the ability to use a Bayonet. Then they had Colt stamp M-16 on it instead of AR-15 Model 601. Believe it or not, the AR-15 semi auto predates the M-16 by about 5 years. The AR-15 Model 601 full auto predates the M-16 by almost 10 years. Outside of only a handful of parts, both the M-16, AR-15, and the AR-15 Model 601 is identical. And all three have seen combat.

That's interesting, Daryl. Thank you.
My point was that the AR was a gun designed for combat, modified a wee bit for civilian consumption. Your post underscores that point.

IMO, we have no call to own them.

But, who are you to impose your opinion on others? Do you get upset when anti-abortion people try to impose their opinions on women? There is no difference.

That's the crux of the matter. Since she disagrees with you, she should have no right to express her opinion. Now Nationalistic of you.

-------------------------- she can say anything she wants , some would call her stupid , i call her naive and unamerican Daryl Hunt .

---------------------------- as already said , see right above . She can say what she likes . i like seeing unamerican posters that reveal themselve to other board readers . Just beware as she is allowed to vote . 'suzy b. anthony' gave her that 'permission' Daryl Hunt .

Then act like it. You already know she is going to speak. (even if it's yelled from the Kitchen, looking for a pot to hit me any second). So why tell her to shut up. You already know she's probably an American so why call her UnAmerican. You think I am subhuman but I will freely admit that I am at least 2.5% Neanderthal. But the rest of me is Human. So why do you treat me otherwise? I know, we aren't cowtowing like your other buddies do. And it's frustrating. Just remember, the more rattle you get and post, the more I enjoy watching it. I NEVER post mad or frustrated.

 

[iceberg]

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

read back and see who brought the AR into this convo.

that would be you.

I explained why the body count was so low. And I also explained that there was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this shooting. The only saving grace was that he didn't have the easy access to an AR and 30 round mags due to the laws there. He used what he had easy access to. So let's knock off with the name calling and call this one a win/lose one. And admit this wasn't a normal shooting. Then move on.

he was a former marine - he could likely have gotten whatever he wanted. unless you have proof he was upset that he couldn't get an AR, shut the fuck up and quit making this up to fit your narrative.

There you go again. I am not saying EXACTLY what you want to hear therefore I have no right to say it. When are you going to start that roundup of us for the camps? Is that what is going to happen next?

you have every right to be as stupid as you want.

carry on.

 

[2aguy]

Then why don't you tell me how an AR 15 is so vastly different than my Mini 14

They shoot the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire with comparable accuracy

so tell me why the AR 15 is somehow magically different

Then you can tell me why a black car is faster than a red car even though they are exactly the same in every other way

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Easy answer. I don't have nearly his skill set but using my own, I could have killed at least 30 in a matter of a few seconds with the right weapon. With his skill set, if anyone had not fled, they would have been a casualty if not a body count. His score, out of a possible 62, could have easily been 55 with the right weapon that is NOT available in his area so easily. Nor is the 30 round mags he would need.

He used a Glock 21 with a 30 round extended mag. He only had that one mag. Normally the stock mag held 10 so I imagine he had that with him as well and could have expended the 30 round and changed to the 10 round clip. That's a complete total of 40 rounds available to him. Each fatality means 1 round The normal Mass Shooter uses a 30 round mag and has at least 3 other 30 round mags and can reload in less than a second on the "Weapon of Choice". That means 120 rounds and he can expend all 120 rounds in about a minute. In a packed target rich area like that, he could have hit 3 people with each round. Do the math on this one. By depriving him of the "Weapon of Choice" he used a handgun with only one maybe two clips with a total of 40 rounds. The other Mass Murders would be ashamed of him.

The guy in Crimea used a 5 shot pump action shotgun....killed 21......Virginia Tech...used 2 pistols, not one....killed 32...Muslim terrorist in France used a rental truck, killed 86, injured 434......you don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[GWV5903]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

So what’s the solution for this besides the cry to confiscate ALL Assault Weapons?

 

[pismoe]

it wasn't any special category of weapon , it was a Glock 21 , nice gun but nothing special GWV .

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I'll let a gun fan tell you. Although you already know so I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about it with you.
SHOOTABILITY
The AR-15 as a shooting platform has relatively more manageable recoil compared to other rifle platforms, particularly so when chambered in its intended 5.56x45mm round. It is also offers relatively better ergonomics than other popular rifles, such as the venerable AK-47.

It is a precision-built tool specially designed for accuracy with some models tricked out with easy-grip hand guards, scope mounts and more. This is why many rifle purists and even hunters swear by the AR-15.
10 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2018 (with Pictures and Prices)

there's almost zero recoil in the ar-15. by design. not sure how this becomes the I TOLD YOU ITS DANGEROUS mantra you're making it out to be. most modern semi-automatic rifles manage this well.

not sure why when this particular shooter used a Glock .45 we gotta bring AR's back into it. been said time and again it's not the style of gun it's the mental idiot using it.

focus on those who show a mental issue and look in that direction.

Simple. He couldn't readily and easily buy an AR but he could buy and probably had it for years, a 1911. Every once in awhile, a gun reg actually works. In this case it worked. There is no way that anyone could have prevented the shooting. We can only look at the aftermath and start to piece the pieces together. There is a lot of BS put out about it but the fact remains that he was going to shoot up the place and nothing was going to stop him. He had the skill sets far beyond anyone there including the two armed cops that entered the building. They went into a War Zone Firefight which was what the Marine was trained to do. They were Cops, not Marines or 101st or better. There doesn't appear to be any great planning gone into the shooters actions. He did exactly what he was trained to do. Remove the initial threats (the security first) and then eliminate the objectives. When enough cops came on scene he knew it was over and ended it by taking his own life. This was more a form of Suicide than anything else. This is one time where the Californian Laws kept the body count down. It could have been worse in places like Florida and Nevada. In fact, it has been worse there. And until we started passing common sense laws and doing local awareness here, it was worse here.

You want it all about the AR? The first thing to do is to stop trying to make it all about the AR. When the Cult of the AR ceases then the Mass shooting will also go way down. They won't stop but maybe we can keep the body count down. How about culting the Glock for the well dressed mass shooter for a change.

You cannot say with any confidence that he would have killed more people with a different weapon.

Easy answer. I don't have nearly his skill set but using my own, I could have killed at least 30 in a matter of a few seconds with the right weapon. With his skill set, if anyone had not fled, they would have been a casualty if not a body count. His score, out of a possible 62, could have easily been 55 with the right weapon that is NOT available in his area so easily. Nor is the 30 round mags he would need.

He used a Glock 21 with a 30 round extended mag. He only had that one mag. Normally the stock mag held 10 so I imagine he had that with him as well and could have expended the 30 round and changed to the 10 round clip. That's a complete total of 40 rounds available to him. Each fatality means 1 round The normal Mass Shooter uses a 30 round mag and has at least 3 other 30 round mags and can reload in less than a second on the "Weapon of Choice". That means 120 rounds and he can expend all 120 rounds in about a minute. In a packed target rich area like that, he could have hit 3 people with each round. Do the math on this one. By depriving him of the "Weapon of Choice" he used a handgun with only one maybe two clips with a total of 40 rounds. The other Mass Murders would be ashamed of him.

The guy in Crimea used a 5 shot pump action shotgun....killed 21......Virginia Tech...used 2 pistols, not one....killed 32...Muslim terrorist in France used a rental truck, killed 86, injured 434......you don’t know what you are talking about.

Just for you, I will type very slowly and use small words.

Crimea is a war zone. It is not the US. Strawman.

VT was the very first of it's kind. No Protection, No Thoughts that it could happen, nothing. Things have changed and our schools have since become more aware, our cops have become more aware and even our Citizens around the school areas are getting into the picture. All without any help or positive input from you. And it was done largely without "More Guns".

Muslims in France? France isn't even a suburb or the US. You will probably bring up every suicide bomber in the Middle east to try and prove your point. Go ahead. Another Strawman.

At 2am I can walk down the street without fear of any crime happening to me. I can get pulled over by a cop without fear that he's going to shoot me. The people hanging around the 7-11 aren't threatening me with guns or even knives. Overall, the United States is the safest place to be in the world. It's safe because we all make it safe. If it's not safe where you are, and it sounds like it isn't, then YOU need to do something about it or just move to somewhere that is safe. If you are the reason it's NOT safe, please stay where you are.

 

[BigTruck]

its you that wants to take away RIGHTS , all i want you people to do is to leave American Gun Owners alone Daryl Hunt .

You don't like the laws of our state, I suggest you stay the hell out of it instead of demanding we do exactly as you demand that you want. But if you come here, you WILL follow the law. Our people have spoken.

Yes....which is exactly what the democrats said when they created the Jim Crow laws.....if you don't like them, move..... but that isn't the way Rights work in this country. You do not lose Constitutional Rights based on where you live......and owning and carrying a gun for self defense is a Constitutional Right.

To be fair, the 2nd Amendment prevents Congress from infringing upon the right to bear arms.

Federal gun control laws should all be abolished.

People need to have gun rights embedded into their state constitution. States can impose gun control laws.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

its you that wants to take away RIGHTS , all i want you people to do is to leave American Gun Owners alone Daryl Hunt .

You don't like the laws of our state, I suggest you stay the hell out of it instead of demanding we do exactly as you demand that you want. But if you come here, you WILL follow the law. Our people have spoken.

Yes....which is exactly what the democrats said when they created the Jim Crow laws.....if you don't like them, move..... but that isn't the way Rights work in this country. You do not lose Constitutional Rights based on where you live......and owning and carrying a gun for self defense is a Constitutional Right.

To be fair, the 2nd Amendment prevents Congress from infringing upon the right to bear arms.

Federal gun control laws should all be abolished.

People need to have gun rights embedded into their state constitution. States can impose gun control laws.

The problem with removing all federal gun control laws is that it would not prevent people from having REAL arsenals. And that is more scary than I care to imagine. The Firearms Act of 1934 was necessary and still is today. Imagine someone setting up a M-2 50 Cal Ma Deuce up in the Hotel room in Vegas and having 5000 rounds of ammo on the chain. That may work in the middle east but I prefer not having that in the United States. Most walls will not stop that slug. The only safe place with your vehicle will be directly behind the engine block. Even being inside a room not on the outside of the building may not save you. And it can do it from more than a mile away. With the crowd crammed together like that, not many would have survived. It blows arms,legs and heads off when it hits. We need at least that part of the Federal Gun Control.

As for firearms that are of the lesser kind, I agree, let the states do it. AFterall, it is their job. Some do it better than others. A couple go overboard on the strict side while some seem not to give a crap about the safety of people. But as the one Federal Judge said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, move to somewhere that has laws you like". Not a direct quote but close enough. But if someone goes over a state line and buys something that is illegal in another state, transports it back and uses it for a criminal activity then the original seller should be held accountable. If the offending State keeps allowing this to happen, then it's a fast trip to the Supreme Court to force them to clean up their act. As one person pointed out, many of the illegal firearms in Chicago were bought in Texas and transported to Chicago for a nice fat profit..