Zone1 Is the Father Greater than Jesus?

[onefour1]

I'm surprised that so few believe the words of Jesus.

 

[Wise47]

Jesus teaches us that the Father is greater than himself.

Yes God the Father is greater than Jesus. He is the idealith of the entire cosmos when Jesus was incarnation of idealith of solar system. More you can find in my thread on this forum: Zone1 - New religion of Nothingness and Darkness

 

[crossbody]

this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

That Catholic faith/doctrine is full of confusion. Jesus says he is not the author of confusion.

 

[ding]

That Catholic faith/doctrine is full of confusion. Jesus says he is not the author of confusion.

Then don't be a Catholic. Problem solved, right?

 

[HikerGuy83]

I guess my question is: Did the Father exist before the Son ?

If so, then what is the context of their existence ?

 

[onefour1]

I guess my question is: Did the Father exist before the Son ?

If so, then what is the context of their existence ?

According to Abraham 3:18
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

and Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

It appears that the intelligences of all the universe have always existed and there never was a time when they did not exist. This would mean that we all have always existed and are eternal. We all self-exist as intelligences. I think when it come to who was a God first, it would have to be the Father. From my point of view, Jesus is the firstborn spirit child of God the Father. I believe God the Father made Jesus part of the Godhead in the beginning and through Jesus, the Father created all things. Jesus must have a very highly progressed intelligence to be chosen as the Firstborn and part of the Godhead from the beginning. However, God the Father was already a God before He created Jesus' spirit body and combined it with Jesus' intelligence. Makes me wonder what exactly an intelligence looks like.

 

[ding]

I guess my question is: Did the Father exist before the Son ?

If so, then what is the context of their existence ?

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Is this Catholic Doctrine ?

 

[ding]

Is this Catholic Doctrine ?

Yes

 

[zaangalewa]

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes

This is not only a Catholic doctrine - this is [part of] the catholic faith of all Christians - what doesn't mean not to like to close hell forever. Do not think this is a "no" to your "yes". This is only a second "yes".

 

[zaangalewa]

That Catholic faith/doctrine is full of confusion. ...

What is your confusion?

 

[zaangalewa]

5 votes out of 93 views. A low turn out for the vote.

Perhaps this is so because a vote would produce only a kind of pi-bill. pi is pi (=circumference of the circle divided by diameter ) -independent from anything else. Who is in God Father is in god, who is in Jesus the Christ is in god, who is in the Holy Spirit is in god. So what is the real problem when a Christian chicken is crossing the road? We cross every road anyway always only with the help of god.

 

[Foxfyre]

In the New Testament in John 14:28 Jesus teaches us that the Father is greater than himself. How many believe these words of Jesus?

John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The Father is greater than Jesus of Nazareth, human and vulnerable as any other human. But the Gospel of John Chapter 1 begins with "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made that has been made. . ."

And John 10:30 quotes Jesus as saying "I and the Father are one."

I personally don't argue with anyone who thinks the Christ and God are separate beings, but my personal faith is that they and the Holy Spirit are all one and the same other than being three forms/manifestations of the one living God. Just as ice, water, and steam are all three forms/manifestations of H2O.

So for me the issue of which is greater is moot.

 

[zaangalewa]

Then don't be a Catholic. Problem solved, right?

No. Because it exists only one god, one truth and one church and everyone is a child of god. Some know - some do not know. The problem "confusion" is not so easy solvable for every catholic Christian.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes God the Father is greater than Jesus. He is the idealith of the entire cosmos ...

No - the idealith of the entire cosm is the so called "world spirit". This "world spirit" is also somehow "part" of god how we are able to see him in his creation - but this world spirit is not really the creator - the world spirit is creation. In Jesus the Christ told us the creator god that he makes not an exception for him on his own. Even when we are not able to understand how god made the cosm from nothing god tells us in Jesus "I am with you - always, everywhere - even when you will be tortured and slaughtered like a criminal on a cross.". God is not abstract with us but very concrete. He is here. Now.

 

[Wise47]

„duch świata”... Nawet jeśli nie jesteśmy w stanie zrozumieć, jak Bóg stworzył kosmos z niczego.

An interesting concept of "world spirit", but is it true?
God the Father resides outside the cosmos but influences it in various ways, including influencing the process of evolution. Above God the Father resides the supreme Mother Goddess, Nothingness and Darkness. She actually gives birth to the cosmos from the seed of the primeval cosmic singularity created by the Father and, like the Father, influences the processes taking place in the cosmos.

 

[zaangalewa]

An interesting concept of "world spirit", but is it true?

What do you think is natural science doing? It tries to find out how the "world spirit" works. Sure has this spirit something to do with god - it's somehow his handwriting - it shows his way how he made it. That's why a quantum-physicist like Anton Zeilinger is able to say "In the beginning was the word" (a wonderful sentence) - but indeed you have to learn a lot to understand why he says so. Nevertheless god made "the world" for everyone and not only for quantum-physicists.

God the Father resides outside the cosmos

The universe has no outside.

but influences it in various ways, including influencing the process of evolution.

Let me say about evolution just simple "everyone and everything is an answer to this what had happened before" then you are perhaps able to be more free from the racism of the 19th century and the idiocies which the small-minded man Charles Darwin propagated to be the middle of his world. Some things are evolution - others not.

Above God the Father resides the supreme Mother Goddess, Nothingness and Darkness.

Eh? God is not only our father, God is also our mother. To say "nothingness" instead of "nothing" (as for example in a sentence like "God created the world out of nothing") sounds in the moment for me as if this is only a weird thought - and "darkness" is the absence of electromagnetic waves and when I hear physical expressions like "big bang" , "dark matter", "dark energy", or a totally wrong use of the word "time" in words like quantum-time (correct would be quantum-second) then I suggest to all physicists to read more lyrics. Dark means dark and not "unknown". And what is now unkown will be known one day. So why such stupid expressions?

She actually gives birth to the cosmos from the seed of the primeval cosmic singularity created by the Father and, like the Father, influences the processes taking place in the cosmos.

And what exactly do you like to say with this "formula"? What about words like "creator" and "Jesus lives" or so? Is this not much more simple and much more easy understandable? And by the way: We live - but lives the universe? Nearly everywhere I see matter which is not part of a living organism. Living matter is extremely seldom. So why thinks someone the "self-organisation of matter" leads automatically to living matter?

 

[crossbody]

What is your confusion?

I'm not Catholic, so I'm not under the umbrella of confusion.

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm not Catholic, so I'm not under the umbrella of confusion.

Is it possible that you are only a sunny brainwashed idiot who not knows what he tries to speak about witches, Jews and Catholics?

On what reason do you pray for people who are in heaven? On what reason do you pray for people who are in hell? Do you pray for yourselve, for people who you know and for people who you do not know at all?