CO2 helping to feed the planet

[Robert W]

I doubt a lot of factory farming corporations are interested in university research though.

I saw my doctor yesterday but can ask him the question on his page.

 

[ding]

...people starving in many regions due to lack of rain to grow the crops they depend on to survive.

Imagine how bad they would have it if the planet were not greening up.

 

[Delldude]

But that doesn't address the issue of less nutrition due to soil depletion.

Soil depletion would result over time from continually planting crops in fields over time. Modern farming methods may have impacted this but over time, the end result would be the same.

 

[Foxfyre]

Soil depletion would result over time from continually planting crops in fields over time. Modern farming methods may have impacted this but over time, the end result would be the same.

Well again I grew up around farming and farmers but have not been one and don't claim a lot of expertise on crop management. But I have read that soil depletion is affecting the nutrition values in the foods we eat. It's still way more beneficial to eat natural foods than it is to consume processed foods but the 'experts' (I'm assuming) say that each subsequent generation sees a little less nutrition in the foods we eat. Certainly no big emergency of any sort but I sure would like to see a lot more interest in reversing that trend as well as utilizing the really efficient farming methods of the Israelis for example and otherwise helping humankind effectively adapt to inevitable climate conditions/change. The trillions they're throwing at trying to change the climate are not only harmful to our future prosperity but aren't doing a damn thing for anybody.

 

[Robert W]

Well again I grew up around farming and farmers but have not been one and don't claim a lot of expertise on crop management. But I have read that soil depletion is affecting the nutrition values in the foods we eat. It's still way more beneficial to eat natural foods than it is to consume processed foods but the 'experts' (I'm assuming) say that each subsequent generation sees a little less nutrition in the foods we eat. Certainly no big emergency of any sort but I sure would like to see a lot more interest in reversing that trend as well as utilizing the really efficient farming methods of the Israelis for example and otherwise helping humankind effectively adapt to inevitable climate conditions/change. The trillions they're throwing at trying to change the climate are not only harmful to our future prosperity but aren't doing a damn thing for anybody.

This topic is way over my head.

 

[Foxfyre]

This topic is way over my head.

Well I don't know a lot about it either but I learn from threads like this.

 

[Sunsettommy]

With the US Universities working on this it shocks me they have not come up with good solutions.

Actually the solutions have long been known the problem is well explained in the article:

Davis and his colleagues chalk up this declining nutritional content to the preponderance of agricultural practices designed to improve traits (size, growth rate, pest resistance) other than nutrition.

HYBRIDS is the main reason for the decline in soil health since it takes time for soils to regenerate which means Fallow/Crop rotation years MUST be applied for the soils to have a chance to rebuild.

“Efforts to breed new varieties of crops that provide greater yield, pest resistance and climate adaptability have allowed crops to grow bigger and more rapidly,” reported Davis, “but their ability to manufacture or uptake nutrients has not kept pace with their rapid growth.” There have likely been declines in other nutrients, too, he said, such as magnesium, zinc and vitamins B-6 and E, but they were not studied in 1950 and more research is needed to find out how much less we are getting of these key vitamins and minerals.

The red bolded is absolutely the dominant reason why soils deplete over time.

It is the overuse of HYBRID varieties that requires much higher number of elements from the soil to maintain higher growth levels which is why soils fall behind in meeting the demand by souped up HYBRID plant varieties even with fertilization because organic matter and soil structure is damaged and that soils needs time to rebuild understand that excessive nitrogen application damage or kill soil microorganisms that helps elemental uptake.

What can be done? The key to healthier produce is healthier soil. Alternating fields between growing seasons to give land time to restore would be one important step. Also, foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers.

This has been known for many decades already as I learned this in college back in 1980-83 time frame when I was a student studying Agriculture and Soils Agronomy the problem is the over reliance on HYBRID varieties that requires a much higher load of elements from the soil to build their higher growth rate to support the large yields and souped up fertilization program to sustain the elevated demand but soils suffer from it over time producing exhausted soils if they don't allow time for Fallow.

The low and no tilling methods were introduced over 50 years ago for example that helps soils recover faster since excessive plowing destroys soil structure and tilth which effects the elementary recovery rate, reduction in Organic matter and reduce drainage rates.

It is why I go the Organic gardening route at home with a little fertilizer and use OPEN POLLINATED varieties which garden soils can keep up on a yearly basis with a planned crop rotation never till or walk on the 4-5 foot X 30 feet long wide beds that are permanent thus soil structure is always good and compaction is low allowing better soil aeration and higher levels of Organic Matter and healthy levels of microorganisms.

The carrots you buy at stores are often the Imperator variety which was bred for storage and ship ability while flavor is inferior it is why kids hates them but growing them in the home garden produces far better flavor and taste and kids like them.

 

[Delldude]

Well again I grew up around farming and farmers but have not been one and don't claim a lot of expertise on crop management. But I have read that soil depletion is affecting the nutrition values in the foods we eat.

It's trace minerals that are depleted from the soil and taken up by the growing crops, for one. Once they're gone, that's pretty much it. Not sure how you would replace them readily. Trace minerals were the result of the planet forming over eons.

The OP points out where increased levels of CO2 enhances crop yields, however, it also points out negative responses from the CC academia world. Where cited studies poo poo the crop yields from higher concentrations of CO2. That's funny in itself, there are studies that show increased yields by up to 60%. The academics point out that the increased yields are lower in nutrition, so they wouldn't necessarily be any benefit.

So that brings us back to existing lower nutrition in crop yields now, due to soil depletion.

Sure sounds like academic spin.

 

[ReinyDays]

Better weather forecasting saves more lives than all this put together ... Galivston, 1900, 12,000 dead ... inaccurate forecast ...

Yes, the biochemistry in question here does proceed at a faster rate with higher environmental temperatures ... but with tiny temperature increases, we'll only see tiny improvements to crop production ... lost in all the other things associated with the agricultural process ...

Only some plants will benefit with higher carbon dioxide concentrations, lucky for us this includes almost all human food plants ... we're still limited by the other requirements, notably nitrogen ...

Another advantage to plants will be the extra rainfall and fresh water availability ... a warmer Earth is a wetter Earth ... and again with slight increase in temperature, we'll only see a slight increase in drinking water ... no where close to our needs today, let alone 100 years from now ...

Curtailing oil consumption curtails oil profits from funding international terrorism and regional wars ... and that would be better for agriculture ... do you want peace, or a Ford F-350? ...

 

[Sunsettommy]

It's trace minerals that are depleted from the soil and taken up by the growing crops, for one. Once they're gone, that's pretty much it. Not sure how you would replace them readily. Trace minerals were the result of the planet forming over eons.

The OP points out where increased levels of CO2 enhances crop yields, however, it also points out negative responses from the CC academia world. Where cited studies poo poo the crop yields from higher concentrations of CO2. That's funny in itself, there are studies that show increased yields by up to 60%. The academics point out that the increased yields are lower in nutrition, so they wouldn't necessarily be any benefit.

So that brings us back to existing lower nutrition in crop yields now, due to soil depletion.

Sure sounds like academic spin.

Trace minerals are there in the soil, but they are being withdrawn at a rate greater than the soils can release more of it in part because of the use of HYBRIDS and it is easy to replenish it with a mineralized cocktail of minerals in fertilizers.

Experienced Home gardeners know how easy it is to replenish the garden soil using fertilizers with minerals and also other materials that naturally have it.

From HERE is a statement from Mother Earth News that people should pay attention to:

The minerals and nutrients we should be concerned about are calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), potassium (K), sodium (Na), phosphorous (P), sulfur (S), iron (Fe), copper (Cu), manganese (Mn), boron (B), Zinc (Zn), cobalt (Co), selenium (Se), silicon (Si) and molybdenum (Mo). There are also other trace minerals that plants and our body needs. It is a good idea to include Azomite or kelp to your garden each year to supply the additional trace minerals.

I buy complete mineral pills as supplement to my diet to help counter for low mineral containing foods we buy and consume.

 

[Robert W]

Actually the solutions have long been known the problem is well explained in the article:



HYBRIDS is the main reason for the decline in soil health since it takes time for soils to regenerate which means Fallow/Crop rotation years MUST be applied for the soils to have a chance to rebuild.




The red bolded is absolutely the dominant reason why soils deplete over time.

It is the overuse of HYBRID varieties that requires much higher number of elements from the soil to maintain higher growth levels which is why soils fall behind in meeting the demand by souped up HYBRID plant varieties even with fertilization because organic matter and soil structure is damaged and that soils needs time to rebuild understand that excessive nitrogen application damage or kill soil microorganisms that helps elemental uptake.



This has been known for many decades already as I learned this in college back in 1980-83 time frame when I was a student studying Agriculture and Soils Agronomy the problem is the over reliance on HYBRID varieties that requires a much higher load of elements from the soil to build their higher growth rate to support the large yields and souped up fertilization program to sustain the elevated demand but soils suffer from it over time producing exhausted soils if they don't allow time for Fallow.

The low and no tilling methods were introduced over 50 years ago for example that helps soils recover faster since excessive plowing destroys soil structure and tilth which effects the elementary recovery rate, reduction in Organic matter and reduce drainage rates.

It is why I go the Organic gardening route at home with a little fertilizer and use OPEN POLLINATED varieties which garden soils can keep up on a yearly basis with a planned crop rotation never till or walk on the 4-5 foot X 30 feet long wide beds that are permanent thus soil structure is always good and compaction is low allowing better soil aeration and higher levels of Organic Matter and healthy levels of microorganisms.

The carrots you buy at stores are often the Imperator variety which was bred for storage and ship ability while flavor is inferior it is why kids hates them but growing them in the home garden produces far better flavor and taste and kids like them.

I appreciate all efforts to inform us all on what it takes to have good crops that are loaded with important nutrition.

 

[Robert W]

Trace minerals are there in the soil, but they are being withdrawn at a rate greater than the soils can release more of it in part because of the use of HYBRIDS and it is easy to replenish it with a mineralized cocktail of minerals in fertilizers.

Experienced Home gardeners know how easy it is to replenish the garden soil using fertilizers with minerals and also other materials that naturally have it.

From HERE is a statement from Mother Earth News that people should pay attention to:



I buy complete mineral pills as supplement to my diet to help counter for low mineral containing foods we buy and consume.

I am running high potassium levels, and it is a mystery to me and my doctor. I seldom eat Bananas or Avocados that are high in potassium. I have 5 bananas on hand but eat one a day is all. These are my first bananas eaten for maybe 2 weeks.

 

[Delldude]

Trace minerals are there in the soil, but they are being withdrawn at a rate greater than the soils can release more of it in part because of the use of HYBRIDS and it is easy to replenish it with a mineralized cocktail of minerals in fertilizers.

In nature, once they're gone they're gone. If reports of low nutrition in veggies, I'd think indicates the large corporate farming operations aren't replenishing.

 

[Robert W]

Well I don't know a lot about it either but I learn from threads like this.

We are getting some good information. But since it is over my head, I don't know for certain which is good and which is not good. Some posters seem to understand this topic vs others who do not seem to.

 

[Sunsettommy]

In nature, once they're gone they're gone. If reports of low nutrition in veggies, I'd think indicates the large corporate farming operations aren't replenishing.

Nature is what generated those minerals in the first-place heck part of the soil structure is COMPOSED of entirely minerals in unavailable form as pointed out here from Wikipedia,

Chemistry

The abundance and diversity of minerals is controlled directly by their chemistry, in turn dependent on elemental abundances in the Earth. The majority of minerals observed are derived from the Earth's crust. Eight elements account for most of the key components of minerals, due to their abundance in the crust. These eight elements, summing to over 98% of the crust by weight, are, in order of decreasing abundance: oxygen, silicon, aluminum, iron, magnesium, calcium, sodium and potassium. Oxygen and silicon are by far the two most important – oxygen composes 47% of the crust by weight, and silicon accounts for 28%

bolding mine

but I agree that corporate farming isn't taking proper care of their soils which is why the soils are getting exhausted.

 

[Sunsettommy]

I am running high potassium levels, and it is a mystery to me and my doctor. I seldom eat Bananas or Avocados that are high in potassium. I have 5 bananas on hand but eat one a day is all. These are my first bananas eaten for maybe 2 weeks.

You might have a developing Kidney problem suggest you get a check up read through the below link to see if it will help decide on what to do.

Cleveland Clinic

What is hyperkalemia?​

Hyperkalemia is a condition in which the potassium levels in your blood get too high.

What happens when potassium is high?​

You get potassium through the foods and drinks you consume. Normally, your kidneys remove extra potassium, which leaves your body through your urine (pee). But if you have too much potassium in your body, your kidneys may not be able to remove all of it, and it can build up in your blood. Too much potassium in your blood can damage your heart, make you feel palpitations and even cause a heart attack. You can’t always tell when your potassium levels are high.

How common is hyperkalemia?​

In the general U.S. population, hyperkalemia is rare. Medical experts estimate 2% to 3% of people have high potassium levels. However, you’re up to three times more likely to have hyperkalemia if you have chronic kidney disease (CKD). Over half of those who have CKD but don’t need dialysis eventually develop high potassium levels.

LINK

 

[Foxfyre]

We are getting some good information. But since it is over my head, I don't know for certain which is good and which is not good. Some posters seem to understand this topic vs others who do not seem to.

Well so far as understanding goes, there seems to be an awful lack of that on pretty much all topics so don't beat yourself up. (I sure try not to wade in with opinions when I don't know the whole story.) The sad thing is that so few will admit that they don't know something and prefer dishonest propaganda to actual facts.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's trace minerals that are depleted from the soil and taken up by the growing crops, for one. Once they're gone, that's pretty much it. Not sure how you would replace them readily. Trace minerals were the result of the planet forming over eons.

The OP points out where increased levels of CO2 enhances crop yields, however, it also points out negative responses from the CC academia world. Where cited studies poo poo the crop yields from higher concentrations of CO2. That's funny in itself, there are studies that show increased yields by up to 60%. The academics point out that the increased yields are lower in nutrition, so they wouldn't necessarily be any benefit.

So that brings us back to existing lower nutrition in crop yields now, due to soil depletion.

Sure sounds like academic spin.

I'm sure a lot of it is academic spin. In years past those working on their PhDs were a very VERY small minority and coming up with the requisite unique topic for a dissertation was fairly easy to do. Now with tens of thousands receiving their PhDs year after year it's getting tougher to come up with a unique subject and I honestly think many are creating studies and issues just to have something to write about.

I myself was once enlisted to help with what I considered to be less than credible research that wound up in a dissertation. My daughter worked as research assistant for quite some time to support herself while working on her quite credible PhD and told me that some of the research that was being done was in her opinion entirely bogus peer reviewed or not. And she is a hardcore leftist.

So there's that.

But yes, we do not have good answers for soil depletion now, but that does not mean there isn't a solution out there. I just wish they were working on things like that and large scale ocean water desalination and such instead of throwing away trillions on futilely trying to change climate change.

 

[jc456]

Imagine how bad they would have it if the planet were not greening up.

first three minutes....Richard Lindzen, hilarious

 

[Robert W]

I myself was once enlisted to help with what I considered to be less than credible research that wound up in a dissertation. My daughter worked as research assistant for quite some time to support herself while working on her quite credible PhD and told me that some of the research that was being done was in her opinion entirely bogus peer reviewed or not. And she is a hardcore leftist.

I have 2 daughters and am a step father to boys and girls. My pair of daughters are separated by 20 years and different moms. Both of their moms are dead.

I am not clear on the oldest daughters politics. My youngest daughter who is a Nurse says she is not involved. Her mom was a dependable JW and they shun politics.

My first wife and me at that time were Democrats. Why I was is my family was all Democrats.

I live in Idaho with my oldest step sons. HE is like me and is a Republican.
I am not clear as to my youngest daughters husband as to who he votes for or if he votes at all.
What my message here is don't mess up good family relations by digging them a hole to fight out of by being a pest over their politics.