Zarqawi's Grisly Path To Power

[NATO AIR]

we really need to put this sick puppy down

Zarqawi's grisly path to power
Most-wanted man in Iraq seeks to forge own way
By Craig Whitlock

Updated: 12:29 p.m. ET Sept. 27, 2004AMMAN, Jordan - In a video image posted on the Internet last week, a quivering, blindfolded American kneels on the floor of an empty room as five hooded men stand behind him, dressed in black. After reading a speech from a sheaf of white papers, the leader of the group pulls a long knife from his shirt and slices off the captive's head in a well-practiced manner.

The killer is wearing a mask, but he is identified in a statement accompanying the video as Abu Musab Zarqawi. He is the most wanted man in Iraq and at the vanguard of a new generation of Islamic radicals who have confronted the United States and its allies since the invasion of Iraq 18 months ago.

While Zarqawi has assembled temporary alliances with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network over the years, evidence shows that he has always sought to forge his own path with a largely distinct, if occasionally overlapping agenda.

Zarqawi and his group, Monotheism and Jihad, have become best known for helping to fuel the insurgency in Iraq. But according to European and Arab intelligence officials and counterterrorism specialists, he has never abandoned his primary goals: to topple the monarchy in his native Jordan and attack Jewish targets in Israel and around the world. As Zarqawi has become more prominent in recent years, he has expanded his original sphere of influence in the Middle East by forming cells in Europe.

Skeptics say that the U.S. government has transformed Zarqawi into a larger-than-life figure by exaggerating his capabilities and using him to personify the Iraqi resistance, which has many factions and appears to rely mainly on Iraqi fighters, not foreigners. But Zarqawi has also helped to enhance his own legend by embracing tactics that have generated enormous publicity.

In May, he personally inaugurated a wave of hostage-takings and beheadings in Iraq by decapitating Nicholas Berg, 26, a businessman from Pennsylvania, and posting the videotaped episode on the Internet. Last week, the kidnapping trend reached a new zenith when he and his followers posted videos on the Internet showing the decapitations of two other Americans, Eugene "Jack" Armstrong, 52, a native of Hillsdale, Mich., and Jack Hensley, 48, of Marietta, Ga. The group, which had also taken a Briton hostage, warned that he could meet the same fate.

Almost every week, U.S. forces in Iraq bomb or blow up suspected Zarqawi hideouts and safe houses, but so far they have been unable to corral the 38-year-old Jordanian. The United States has placed a $25 million bounty on his head, the same reward offered for bin Laden.

read at the rest @
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6108639/

 

[Adam's Apple]

Satan Incarnate. I hope he will be brought to justice soon. If he is caught alive, he should be given the same fate as he has dealt his innocent prisoners, but I doubt Zarqawi would ever let them capture him alive.

 

[theim]

I look forward to seeing his head cut off and him squeeling like a stuck pig.

 

[wade]

I don't see how we can get outraged about the beheading of Coalition forces when we are electrocuting captive arab's genitals, handcuffing them in extremely uncomfortable positions for days at a time, covering them in shit, sodomizing them and forcing them to engage in acts of sodomy with each other (a mortal sin), and beating them to death, all while our people are looking on smiling and laughing and giving the big thumbs up.

To the moslims, these acts are far worse than beheading.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's all dispicable - but let's not be hypocrites and call foul when they behave as badly as we.

Why would you expect them to care about our sensibilities when we clearly do not care about theirs?

Wade.

*EDITED BY SE*
First we don't post these kind of pictures on the board period!
Also use credible source other than you propoganda sites!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Sexual acts, and shit smearing, vs. beheading. Cultural sensitivity aside, these acts are not comparable. Nice try, funbag.

 

[theim]

Oh. My. God.

I don't see how we can get outraged about the beheading of Coalition forces when we are electrocuting captive arab's genitals, handcuffing them in extremely uncomfortable positions for days at a time, covering them in shit, sodomizing them and forcing them to engage in acts of sodomy with each other (a mortal sin), and beating them to death, all while our people are looking on smiling and laughing and giving the big thumbs up.

To the moslims, these acts are far worse than beheading.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's all dispicable - but let's not be hypocrites and call foul when they behave as badly as we.

Why would you expect them to care about our sensibilities when we clearly do not care about theirs?

Wade.

*EDITED BY SE*
First we don't post these kind of pictures on the board period!
Also use credible source other than you propoganda sites!

BOO FUCKING HOO! You are one SICK son of a bitch to compare Abu Grabass to sawing off peoples freekn' heads! Actually I'm sorry. You would fit right fucking in with the leaders of the Democratic Party. I Don't give a SHIT if being sodomized is worse than beheading to a frickn' muslim. I'd be lying if I even said I honestly care about Abu Ghraib anymore in light of all these psycho Arabs cutting peoples heads and blowing shit up. "Oh waaaah! I was just arrested for cutting the heads off 7 infidels and now some evil man is making me go in a naked pyramid with panties on my head and electrodes on my balls! Its a Human Rights abuse!!"

Go ahead and call me a fascist or Imperialist or warmongering neoconservative or whatever the HELL is the "in" phrase among you commies these days. I have ceased to care.

now i feel better.

 

[walwor]

Originally Posted by wade
"I don't see how we can get outraged about the beheading of Coalition forces when we are electrocuting captive arab's genitals, handcuffing them in extremely uncomfortable positions for days at a time, covering them in shit, sodomizing them and forcing them to engage in acts of sodomy with each other (a mortal sin), and beating them to death, all while our people are looking on smiling and laughing and giving the big thumbs up."

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not dogmatic on this, but to my understanding:
a) captors did not "electrocute" captive arabs' genitals, although there were cases where captives were told they might be electrocuted if they failed to keep standing in an uncomfortable position;
b) captives handcuffed in extremely uncomfortable positions did not stay that way for "days at a time;"
c) captives were not actually "sodomized," although they were stripped and humiliated;
d) captives were not forced to "engage in acts of sodomy with each other" but were forced to simulate such offensive acts;
e) captives were subject to beatings, but were not killed in these beatings.

I'm not excusing the behaviors that did occur, but it's no excuse for exaggeration. Again, I could be wrong on one, some or all of these. I'd prefer if the cooler heads on here will correct me, with legitimate website citations, if I am wrong.

 

[wade]

There is very substantial evidence of torture, sodomizing of prisoners, and even two prisoners beaten to death, of Iraqi prisioners at Abu Gharib. These are the documented cases. Electrocution is not proven, but alleged, but given there are photos of prisoners wired up for it, and given the rest of the evidence, it implies that the allegations are true. Besides, it does not even matter - the Iraqi's and the Arab world believe it's true - that is what really matters.

Given what I have seen in these photos and other photos, I tend to believe that most of what is claimed is probably true. Take a good look for yourself at the photos:

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

Yeah Yeah, you don't like "antiwar.com". Okay, how about ABC News?

May 19, 2004— ABCNEWS has obtained two new photos taken at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq showing Spc. Charles Graner and Spc. Sabrina Harman posing over the body of a detainee who was allegedly beaten to death by CIA or civilian interrogators in the prison's showers. The detainee's name was Manadel al-Jamadi.

According to testimony from Spc. Jason Kenner, obtained by ABCNEWS, the man was brought to the prison by U.S. Navy SEALs in good health. Kenner said he saw extensive bruising on the detainee's body when he was brought out of the showers, dead.

Kenner says the body was packed in ice during a "battle" between CIA and military interrogators over who should dispose of the body.

The Justice Department opened an investigation into this death and four others today following a referral from the CIA.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/Investigation/abu_ghraib_photos_040519.html

Note: many of the photos seen at the antiwar.com site can also be seen at the ABC site linked above in the "slideshow" box in the upper left.

Or how about this detailed report from "The New Yorker"?

...
A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Its conclusions about the institutional failures of the Army prison system were devastating. Specifically, Taguba found that between October and December of 2003 there were numerous instances of “sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses” at Abu Ghraib. This systematic and illegal abuse of detainees, Taguba reported, was perpetrated by soldiers of the 372nd Military Police Company, and also by members of the American intelligence community. (The 372nd was attached to the 320th M.P. Battalion, which reported to Karpinski’s brigade headquarters.) Taguba’s report listed some of the wrongdoing:

Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

pouring cold water on naked detainees;

beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

threatening male detainees with rape;

allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick;

and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.​

There was stunning evidence to support the allegations, Taguba added—“detailed witness statements and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence.” Photographs and videos taken by the soldiers as the abuses were happening were not included in his report, Taguba said, because of their “extremely sensitive nature.”

...

Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood.

The 372nd’s abuse of prisoners seemed almost routine—a fact of Army life that the soldiers felt no need to hide. On April 9th, at an Article 32 hearing (the military equivalent of a grand jury) in the case against Sergeant Frederick, at Camp Victory, near Baghdad, one of the witnesses, Specialist Matthew Wisdom, an M.P., told the courtroom what happened when he and other soldiers delivered seven prisoners, hooded and bound, to the so-called “hard site” at Abu Ghraib—seven tiers of cells where the inmates who were considered the most dangerous were housed. The men had been accused of starting a riot in another section of the prison. Wisdom said:

SFC Snider grabbed my prisoner and threw him into a pile. . . . I do not think it was right to put them in a pile. I saw SSG Frederic, SGT Davis and CPL Graner walking around the pile hitting the prisoners. I remember SSG Frederick hitting one prisoner in the side of its [sic] ribcage. The prisoner was no danger to SSG Frederick. . . . I left after that.

When he returned later, Wisdom testified:

I saw two naked detainees, one masturbating to another kneeling with its mouth open. I thought I should just get out of there. I didn’t think it was right . . . I saw SSG Frederick walking towards me, and he said, “Look what these animals do when you leave them alone for two seconds.” I heard PFC England shout out, “He’s getting hard.”

Wisdom testified that he told his superiors what had happened, and assumed that “the issue was taken care of.” He said, “I just didn’t want to be part of anything that looked criminal.”
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

Now tell me Thiem, what is the difference between sawing a mans head off and handcuffing him and then beating him to death?

The fact is that it is what the Iraqi's and other Arabs think that matters here. The torture of prisoners at Abu Gharib has given the Arabs a carte blanche to do whatever they wish to captured coalition forces - and we are going to get no sympathy from the Arab world. They don't care that they outrage us, in fact that is what they want. The only restraint they had to prevent such atrocities was that it might cost them support in the Arab world - and there is no risk of that now!

Sadly, we've brought this on ourselves. We cannot whine and cry now about how they don't treat our people humanely when we have already shown that we don't treat their people humanely.

I don't like it one bit. I think it is a dispicable situation all around. But lets not delude ourselves that we are the "good guys" when it comes to how prisioners are treated, because we aren't!

I wish it weren't so. I'm ashamed of the US miltiary for it's behavior at Abu Gharib and other prisions in Iraq. I'm ashamed of the way they are treating people whom they "suspect" when they pick them up. If they surrender without a fight they should be treated with respect and dignity until we find out if they are actually bad guys or not - but as it is many don't ever make it to a prison, especially the elderly. Have you not seen or read the testimonials about how "My 70+ year old father who suffered from heart disease and was tortured by Saddam was beaten and a hood was placed over his head and he died on the way to the detention area where they later determined they had the wrong people and let my family go"?

If any of these things happend to any of my family members, close friends, or family members of close friends, I'd be a member of the insurgency the very next day! Wouldn't you?

This is the way to loose the hearts and minds of the Iraqi's and the rest of the Arab world, and if we loose that battle we can never win this war.

Wade.

 

[wade]

Sexual acts, and shit smearing, vs. beheading. Cultural sensitivity aside, these acts are not comparable. Nice try, funbag.

Don't forget beating people to death.

You cannot put "cultural sensitivity" aside.

To them, sodomizing a Moslim or forcing him to engage in acts of sodomy IS WORSE THAN KILLING HIM!

 

[theim]

and those dogs deserve nothing less.

 

[wade]

and those dogs deserve nothing less.

Rather pitiful response there Thiem. What's the matter, the truth doesn't fit with your preconceptions so you're suffering brain lock?

 

[Adam's Apple]

Wade, have you ever watched a tape of one of the beheadings? Surely your reaction to what you saw was much stronger than what it was when you viewed the Abu Graib prison photos. Wasn’t that a tipoff to you that what you viewed was a vile and extremely evil act? Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist, delights in kidnapping and beheading innocent civilians in Iraq. These civilians are people who did not kill one person, but came to Iraq for employment. Does the same circumstance apply to the terrorists who were incarcerated at Abu Graib? Regardless of your ranting about the injustices that take place during war, there in no justification for Zarqawi executing innocent civilians in such a savage manner. Name me one war where beheading of civilians was part of the game plan.

 

[NATO AIR]

hey for the record, the majority of the "terrorists" at abu gharib and other prisions were not terrorists at all, by the army's own admission

beheading is still terrible and all, so is torture, and my own most despised act of evil, terrorists like this fuck blowing up mosques, churches, schools and hospitals, all packed with innocent people trying to pray, learn or get better. the iraqi school season is about to begin and god knows what these sick fucks are going to do to iraqi kids to prove a point about their pointless terrorist activities.

 

[CSM]

hey for the record, the majority of the "terrorists" at abu gharib and other prisions were not terrorists at all, by the army's own admission

beheading is still terrible and all, so is torture, and my own most despised act of evil, the blowing up of mosques, churches, schools and hospitals. the iraqi school season is about to begin and god knows what these sick fucks are going to do to iraqi kids to prove a point about their pointless terrorist activities.

I too am against blowing up schools, mosques, and hospitals. When the enemy uses those facilities for other than their intended purposes however, then they are fair game. In my opinion, the US has shown great restraint in not attacking those facilities despite the fact there are terrorists in them.

 

[theim]

Rather pitiful response there Thiem. What's the matter, the truth doesn't fit with your preconceptions so you're suffering brain lock?

Here is the thing. You see moron, that handcuffing and beating prisoners to death is not US army policy. Beheading people IS terrorist policy, if there is such a thing. You and the Blame America First crowd see no difference. AMERICANS got pissed as hell when Abu Grabass occured. TERRORISTS frickn' dance when a guy gets his head lobbed off. Maybe you may not think Americans are the "good guys" to how prisoners are treated. Well that begs the question of who is? And it again also implies that you draw a moral equilvialancy between a couple prisoners getting beaten to death by renegade Privates, and the terrorists who kidnap and murder civilians. I suppose since Abu Ghraib happened, we no longer have the right to complain about beheadings, is that what I'm getting?

You my friend, are pathetic.

 

[wade]

Have you ever watched a tape of one of the beheadings? Surely your reaction to what you saw was much stronger than what it was when you viewed the Abu Graib prison photos. Wasn’t that a tipoff to you that what you viewed was a vile and extremely evil act? Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist, delights in kidnapping and beheading innocent civilians in Iraq. These civilians are people who did not kill one person, but came to Iraq for employment. Does the same circumstance apply to the terrorists who were incarcerated at Abu Graib? Regardless of your ranting about the injustices that take place during war, there in no justification for Zarqawi executing innocent civilians in such a savage manner. Name me one war where beheading of civilians was part of the game plan.

First off, with respect to your "circumstances of detention" argument, according to our own people, something around 60% of those held at Abu Gharib were being held without cause and should have been released. It was recommended that they be released but they were not.

Look, I'm not trying to say it's right or it's justified. If you think that you are missing the point. I'm trying to point out that once we opened pandora's box by treating Arab detainee's and prisoners with brutality, a complete lack of respect, and outright torture and in at least 17 cases murder, we lost any right to whine and cry about how they treat their captives.


And just because they show film of the beheadings but we only see the mangled corpse in a still photo after a man has been beaten to death does not make any difference in the heinousness of the act itself. Are you seriously saying that because it's been filmed that makes it more wrong than if it'd only been photographed?

And those civilians are often not really civilians. Usually they are contractors who are quite well armed and not subject to military law. To our enemies, who consider this a war, they are non military combatants, and under the GC this makes them spies, and spies have no protections. The journalists are another matter, but they have usually been released.

It's a sad, disgusting, disgraceful situation.

Wade.

 

[wade]

I too am against blowing up schools, mosques, and hospitals. When the enemy uses those facilities for other than their intended purposes however, then they are fair game. In my opinion, the US has shown great restraint in not attacking those facilities despite the fact there are terrorists in them.

In general I agree. But flattening a Mosque which is considered one of the 5 most holey sights in Islam is a choice with significant consequences. You know this is in fact what they were hoping would happen - if it had, there'd be many thousands more terrorists and insurgents flocking to Iraq from countries all throughout Islam.

Such destruction threatens the foundations of Islamic culture, and if we are to engage in such policies we have to be careful to make sure we understand what we are doing and the ramifications.

Wade.

 

[eric]

don't see how we can get outraged about the beheading of Coalition forces when we are electrocuting captive arab's genitals, handcuffing them in extremely uncomfortable positions for days at a time, covering them in shit, sodomizing them and forcing them to engage in acts of sodomy with each other (a mortal sin), and beating them to death, all while our people are looking on smiling and laughing and giving the big thumbs up.

Hey it could have been worse, we could have used Pig fat !!!

 

[wade]

Here is the thing. You see moron, that handcuffing and beating prisoners to death is not US army policy. Beheading people IS terrorist policy, if there is such a thing. You and the Blame America First crowd see no difference. AMERICANS got pissed as hell when Abu Grabass occured. TERRORISTS frickn' dance when a guy gets his head lobbed off. Maybe you may not think Americans are the "good guys" to how prisoners are treated. Well that begs the question of who is? And it again also implies that you draw a moral equilvialancy between a couple prisoners getting beaten to death by renegade Privates, and the terrorists who kidnap and murder civilians. I suppose since Abu Ghraib happened, we no longer have the right to complain about beheadings, is that what I'm getting?

You my friend, are pathetic.

Ahh but the evidence is all to the contrary.

The U.S. Army announced has been investigating 35 cases of prisoner abuse and death in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of those, 25 involve the deaths of prisoners. Thirteen of those deaths may be homicides. Twelve are attributed to natural causes or to undetermined causes.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040505-103424-9217r.htm

It is pretty clear that prisoner abuse is policy, not some abberation. It has been reported for virtually all detention centers. This is not just a few rouge Privates, you are ignoring the facts. I bet you didn't even read the material I posted. It is happening throughout the prisoner system, from Iraq to Afghanistan to Guantanamo.

And as for the innocent contractors argument - read the whole of that WT article. CIAC = CIA Contractors. Many of these contractractors are in fact interrogators and other quasi-military type jobs. This compeletly invalidates the idea that by virtue of being non-military that a contractor is "innocent".

Wake up. As long as we look the other way concerning our own behavior, we have no right to expect better from anyone else. We have to stop trying to whitewash our own bad behavior immeadiately - then we can legitimately condem that of the enemy.

Wade.

 

[eric]

The U.S. Army announced has been investigating 35 cases of prisoner abuse and death in Iraq and Afghanistan

Which shows it is not policy. Do you really think if it were policy, that the military could not contain it as a secret. I am sure there would be many solidiers who would be more than willing to go along with such policy and keep their mouth shut. Just the mere fact that whistleblowers were there proves the point !