Your solution to the ME crisis

[Mom]

New Mandate Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the arabs don't stfu, the Israelis will just take more of their land. And guess what? The rest of the world won't care. After 9/11, arab motherfuckers lost ALL their western sympathy.

let me be among the first, if not the first, to welcome you to this forum. you should fit in well here but a word of advice...you may want to bone up on the history of the christians in nigeria.

as for the palestine mandate...i am not quite sure the LoN or the UN really had any right, other than the right that comes from the barrel of a gun, to dictate the future course of the peoples of the mideast and southern asia without any consideration at all paid to the natural regions inhabited by these people.

Wft does kicking some 9/11 arab ass have to do with christians in ******* Nigeria?
When the LoN or the UN ever tell the US, Canada, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Brazil... to give back the Americas to the indians, you might have a point. Since that ain't gonna happen, why the **** should the Jews give back any land to arab dogs who attack us?

 

[José]

New Mandate Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the arabs don't stfu, the Israelis will just take more of their land. And guess what? The rest of the world won't care. After 9/11, arab motherfuckers lost ALL their western sympathy.

let me be among the first, if not the first, to welcome you to this forum. you should fit in well here but a word of advice...you may want to bone up on the history of the christians in nigeria.

as for the palestine mandate...i am not quite sure the LoN or the UN really had any right, other than the right that comes from the barrel of a gun, to dictate the future course of the peoples of the mideast and southern asia without any consideration at all paid to the natural regions inhabited by these people.

Wft does kicking some 9/11 arab ass have to do with christians in ******* Nigeria?
When the LoN or the UN ever tell the US, Canada, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Brazil... to give back the Americas to the indians, you might have a point. Since that ain't gonna happen, why the **** should the Jews give back any land to arab dogs who attack us?

You've already answered your own question and haven't even noticed.

To help stop skyscraper demolition in America.

 

[proudveteran06]

Does it really matter what people like the Palestinian and the " catholic" think? Israel DOES exist, and is NOT going back to Borders that were never recognized in the first place. The Old Man admits that if Israel does this her existence will end .

 

[sealadaigh]

New Mandate Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the arabs don't stfu, the Israelis will just take more of their land. And guess what? The rest of the world won't care. After 9/11, arab motherfuckers lost ALL their western sympathy.

let me be among the first, if not the first, to welcome you to this forum. you should fit in well here but a word of advice...you may want to bone up on the history of the christians in nigeria.

as for the palestine mandate...i am not quite sure the LoN or the UN really had any right, other than the right that comes from the barrel of a gun, to dictate the future course of the peoples of the mideast and southern asia without any consideration at all paid to the natural regions inhabited by these people.

Wft does kicking some 9/11 arab ass have to do with christians in ******* Nigeria?
When the LoN or the UN ever tell the US, Canada, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Brazil... to give back the Americas to the indians, you might have a point. Since that ain't gonna happen, why the **** should the Jews give back any land to arab dogs who attack us?

i guess my problem is that i have been cursed with the ability to distinguish between the acts and mores of the 16th century, when the colonisation of america began, and the acts and mores of 20th century when almost the entire world realised the futility of foreign colonisation and began withdrawing...except for some colossal fools called zionists.

perhaaps if, in our zeal and stupidity, we had not so thoroughly aided those who were intent on kicking arab ass, there would have been no 9/11.

 

[GHook93]

I'd like to hear your solution to the ME crisis, so present your peace plan with as much or as little detail as you like.

I support a two-state solution, with a Palestinian state based on contigious borders including Gaza and around 85% of the West Bank. Israel would then cede an equivalent area of land bordering Gaza and the south of the West Bank close to the northern shore of the Dead Sea. Palestine would concede the Gilo area and land around East Jerusalem, but would maintain control over East Jerusalem proper.

Israel would accept limited right of return (e.g. 15,000 people per year for 10 years), but would be able to deport anyone committed to terror-related crimes. All migrants would need to swear allegiance to Israel, and could not be members of any terrorist organisation.

Palestine would recognise Israel, and would accept international inspectors at all borders and airports for 10 years.

Jerusalem would be divided east of Damascus Gate, with a section of wall extending north from the Old City. The Old City would be contolled by international peacekeepers.

All neighbouring states would recognise Israel and commit to opening land borders.

(1) No right of return! Not a single enemy of the state should be allowed into Israel.
(2) Jerusalem remains the capital of only Israel and no other country. No Muslim shall be allowed to enter the city as long as no non-muslim is allowed to enter Mecca!
(3) A million of Palestinians in Israel are shipped off to Jordan and some to Gaza. That would leave about 400K Arab Israelis, most would be Christian, Druze and Bedinum.
(4) All the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria are shipped off the Jordan and some to Gaza.
(5) Judea and Samaria are annexed by Israel.
(6) Gaza's borders are released and they are the new sovern nation of Gazistan. Residents of Gazistan are now called Gazans. This is only after a large protective wall is built around all of Gaza and btw the border of Israel and Egypt.
(7) The new nation of Gazistan pays a lump sum to Israel for the countless terrorist attacks she perpetratred on her!

This is a take it or leave it plan!

 

[proudveteran06]

If I am not mistaken it was once proposed that E. Jerusalem become the capital of " Palestine" but that it be shared. Of course it was immediately rejected . The " take it or leave it plan" is not total withdrawal to borders that were never recognized but especially leaving E. Jerusalem

 

[member]

"To help stop skyscraper demolition in America."

"skyscraper demolition." i never heard that one before. it's very sick creep.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

All that is neither here nor there. The mandate did not create a Jewish state.

(COMMENT)

I don't think I claimed that. I think I documented that the ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration or the Mandate.

And resolution 181 was not implemented. It did not create a Jewish state.

(COMMENT)

I don't think I made this claim. The was no requirement for UNSC approval.

I think I said and documented that UNSCOP Report to GA A/364 09/47 recommended the Partition Plan, and that the Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly Resolution 181 (II), (No UNSC Implementation Required). The UNSCOP recommendation was accepted by the UNGA and the offer was accepted by the Jewish Agency (who declared independence), and the State of Israel was admitted to the UN as a nation on that basis.

I believe, I've pointed out, that the Jewish State was originally offered in Part II, Section B, of UNGA Res 181(II), and that it was accepted and outlined in Annex A, with border.

That is all just so much smoke.

(COMMENT)

Well, you have your opinion.

Most Respectfully,
R

It is said repeatedly that Israel accepted resolution 181. That is not true.

The State of Israel, in its present form, directly contravened the previous recommendations of the United Nations in at least three important respects: in its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees, on the delimitation of its territorial boundaries, and on the question of Jerusalem.

The United Nations had certainly not intended that the Jewish State should rid itself of its Arab citizens. On the contrary, section C of part I of the Assembly's 1947 resolution had explicitly provided guarantees of minority rights in each of the two States. For example, it had prohibited the expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State except for public purposes, and then only upon payment of full compensation. Yet the fact was that 90 per cent of the Arab population of Israel had been driven outside its boundaries by military operations, had been forced to seek refuge in neighbouring Arab territories, had been reduced to misery and destitution, and had been prevented by Israel from returning to their homes. Their homes and property had been seized and were being used by thousands of European Jewish immigrants.

A decision to admit Israel at the present session would entail serious consequences in still another field: that of the delimitation of the territorial boundaries of the new State. It would be remembered that the 1947 Assembly resolution had allotted the whole of Western Galilee and the Arab towns of Jaffa, Lydda and Ramleh, as well as other Arab areas, to the proposed Arab State. However, the State of Israel now controlled all those territories and there was every indication that the Israeli authorities had no intention of giving them up.

Of all the territories now occupied by Israel in violation of the specific terms of the Assembly's resolution, the City of Jerusalem and its vicinity held a special position and therefore required special treatment. In that respect, Israel had committed its most serious violation of the will of the Assembly by encroaching not only upon territories which had been allotted to the Arabs, but upon what might be termed United Nations territory. The Israeli occupation of the greater part of the New City of Jerusalem was preventing the establishment of the "international régime" prescribed by the Assembly for the whole area of Jerusalem and its vicinity.

A/AC.24/SR.45 of 5 May 1949

So, what part of resolution 181 did Israel accept?

 

[José]

"To help stop skyscraper demolition in America."

"skyscraper demolition." i never heard that one before. it's very sick creep.

"A generation of young arabs growing up with the images of Palestinians being killed by american weapons on TV represents an enormous danger to America and Israel."

Thomas Friedman, NYT

Yes, you heard it right. Thomas Friedman, no less.

Straight from the mouth of the american Jew who can be called anything but a friend of the palestinian people.

Here's another one:

"Palestine is Al-Quaeda's recruiting office."

 

[mudwhistle]

Leave.

While I admire your concise use of words, neither Sabra Israelis nor Palestinians born in the area really have the option to leave.

Any solution which determines that millions of people must leave the area they were born in is a solution destined to fail.

America should leave.

Simple as that.

Israel has had enough help. If it can't get along with it's neighbors..it won't survive.

We should also let everyone in the region determine how they are going to manage their affairs.

Seems more apparent that Muslims never seem to get along with their neighbors wherever they are.

When India gained her independence, Bosnia, the Arab Spring and all of the ethnic cleansing that has taken place Iraq, the Sudan, Libya, and Egypt. Even back a few hundred years ago with the start of the slave trade which was another episode of ethnic cleansing.

 

[José]

"To help stop skyscraper demolition in America."

"skyscraper demolition." i never heard that one before. it's very sick creep.

If I had my way, member, Israel would have been dismantled 50 years ago and replaced by an international protectorate with thousands of international troops protecting the jewish and the arab community with equal rights for all.

If I had my way there would be no racist jewish state killing palestinians for 60 years, filling 3 generations of arabs with hate at America and those 3000 civilians would probably be alive today.

The cynicism of people like you, who, through your support for Israel, are indirectly responsible for those 3000 deaths, pointing the finger at me, is disgusting and depraved beyond belief.

If you want to see someone who's pretty sick, member, just take a good look in the mirror.

 

[skye]

"To help stop skyscraper demolition in America."

"skyscraper demolition." i never heard that one before. it's very sick creep.

If I had my way, member, Israel would have been dismantled 50 years ago and replaced by an international protectorate with thousands of international troops protecting the jewish and the arab community with equal rights for all.

If I had my way there would be no racist jewish state killing palestinians for 60 years, filling 3 generations of arabs with hate at America and those 3000 civilians would probably be alive today.

The cynicism of people like you, who, through your support of Israel, is indirectly responsible for those 3000 deaths, pointing the finger at me, is disgusting and depraved at the same time.

If you want to see someone who's pretty sick just take a good look in the mirror.

I am very glad you do not have your way then.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

As was stated in the application, previously in Post #161. Israel accepted the whole resolution and applied IAW the resolution. It so happens that Part II - Section B - deals with "THE JEWISH STATE."

REFERENCE:

• A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947 Future Government of Palestine

It is said repeatedly that Israel accepted resolution 181. That is not true.

So, what part of resolution 181 did Israel accept?

(COMMENT)

I thought I would just copy 'n' paste it for you from the UN Document and UNISPAL cite.

The plan also set out the steps to be taken prior to independence. It dealt with
the questions of citizenship, transit, the economic union and a declaration to be made by the provisional government of each proposed State regarding access to holy places and religious and minority rights. By resolution 181 (II), the Assembly also set up the United Nations Palestine Commission to carry out its recommendations and requested the Security Council to take the necessary measures to implement the plan of partition.

The Jewish Agency accepted the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny. They said that the Assembly had endorsed the plan under circumstances unworthy of the United Nations and that the Arabs of Palestine would oppose any scheme that provided for the dissection, segregation or partition of their country, or which gave special and preferential rights and status to a minority.

On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.

SOURCE: ===> UN History: “The Question of Palestine and the United Nations”

On May 14 1948, the independence of the State of Israel was proclaimed by the National Council of the Jewish people in Palestine by virtue of the natural and historic right of the Jewish people to independence in its own sovereign State and in pursuance of the General Assembly resolution of November 29, 1947. Since that date Israel has been consolidated administratively and defended itself successfully against the aggression of neighbouring States. It has so far achieved recognition by nineteen Powers.

On behalf of the Provisional Government of Israel, I have now the honour to request the admission of Israel as a Member of the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter.

In view of the special nature of this application I would request that its consideration should proceed without regard to the deadlines fixed by rule 60, paragraphs 1-4, but in conformity with paragraph 5 of the same rule 60 of the provisional rules of procedure of the Security Council.

A formal declaration that the Government of Israel accepts all the obligations stipulated in the United Nations Charter is enclosed.

My Government submits that Israel’s admission to the United Nations will constitute an act of international justice to the Jewish people, fully consistent with United Nations policy on Palestine, and will contribute to the stabilization of the Middle East and to the cause of international peace.

SOURCE: ===> APPLICATION FOR ADMISSION
TO MEMBERSHIP - & - DECLARATION

Yes, I hear this all the time from people who want to promote an alternative history. I choose to adopt the Official UN History, rather than an alternative interpretation. It should be noted that while the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States rejected the Resolution, they accept the legitimacy of GA UN Resolution 181(II).

It is noted that there are some Palestinian Arabs and Arab States that are still dissatisfied with the UN GA's move to adopt the Plan. It doesn't change the legitimacy of the Plan or the outcomes. What was illegal was the war and invasion that followed.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

"...perhaps if, in our zeal and stupidity, we had not so thoroughly aided those who were intent on kicking arab ass..."

Or, alternatively, "...those who hoped to hunker-down for a couple of generations to lick their wounds and grow strong again, but who were forced to quickly morph into a regional military power by the several Arab-nations who chose to attack them on Day One..."

"...there would have been no 9/11."

We have the consolation of having had a 'wake-up' call, learning who our true enemies (and prospective or passive enemies) are, awakening to a new and increasingly dangerous threat-vector, and not letting others dictate to us whom we can choose as friends and allies.

 

[Saigon]

i guess my problem is that i have been cursed with the ability to distinguish between the acts and mores of the 16th century, when the colonisation of america began, and the acts and mores of 20th century when almost the entire world realised the futility of foreign colonisation and began withdrawing...except for some colossal fools called zionists.

perhaaps if, in our zeal and stupidity, we had not so thoroughly aided those who were intent on kicking arab ass, there would have been no 9/11.

Very well said.

I would like to see our highly developed 21st century cultures do more to lead by example than to preach to others. Israel would do more good for herself and for the world by being a model of justice than mimmicking the failings of the neighbouring societies.

 

[Saigon]

If I had my way, member, Israel would have been dismantled 50 years ago and replaced by an international protectorate with thousands of international troops protecting the jewish and the arab community with equal rights for all.

If I had my way there would be no racist jewish state killing palestinians for 60 years, filling 3 generations of arabs with hate at America and those 3000 civilians would probably be alive today.

The cynicism of people like you, who, through your support for Israel, are indirectly responsible for those 3000 deaths, pointing the finger at me, is disgusting and depraved beyond belief.

If you want to see someone who's pretty sick, member, just take a good look in the mirror.

The only people responsible for 9/11 are the half-dozen people involved in the attack, and those that supported it.

There is no excuse which justifies any attack against any civilian target.

As I often remind Zionist posters here - you do not support the rights of one people by blaming everything on another people. The Palestinians are responsible for as much violence and ignorance as Israel is, and probably more. Both sides need to work towards peace because it is better for them to do so, rather than waiting for the other guy to do so first.

 

[proudveteran06]

If I had my way, member, Israel would have been dismantled 50 years ago and replaced by an international protectorate with thousands of international troops protecting the jewish and the arab community with equal rights for all.

If I had my way there would be no racist jewish state killing palestinians for 60 years, filling 3 generations of arabs with hate at America and those 3000 civilians would probably be alive today.

The cynicism of people like you, who, through your support for Israel, are indirectly responsible for those 3000 deaths, pointing the finger at me, is disgusting and depraved beyond belief.

If you want to see someone who's pretty sick, member, just take a good look in the mirror.

The only people responsible for 9/11 are the half-dozen people involved in the attack, and those that supported it.

There is no excuse which justifies any attack against any civilian target.

As I often remind Zionist posters here - you do not support the rights of one people by blaming everything on another people. The Palestinians are responsible for as much violence and ignorance as Israel is, and probably more. Both sides need to work towards peace because it is better for them to do so, rather than waiting for the other guy to do so first.

Israel being a Jewish State is "racist " but a Palestinian State isn't? That double standard makes you the Racist . How many Arab and Muslim Countries are there? Ask any Pro Palestinian about " working towards peace" you"re not going to get a response. Israel is never going back to pre67 or allow" Right of Return"

 

[kvetch]

If I had my way, member, Israel would have been dismantled 50 years ago and replaced by an international protectorate with thousands of international troops protecting the jewish and the arab community with equal rights for all.

If I had my way there would be no racist jewish state killing palestinians for 60 years, filling 3 generations of arabs with hate at America and those 3000 civilians would probably be alive today.

The cynicism of people like you, who, through your support for Israel, are indirectly responsible for those 3000 deaths, pointing the finger at me, is disgusting and depraved beyond belief.

If you want to see someone who's pretty sick, member, just take a good look in the mirror.

The only people responsible for 9/11 are the half-dozen people involved in the attack, and those that supported it.

There is no excuse which justifies any attack against any civilian target.

As I often remind Zionist posters here - you do not support the rights of one people by blaming everything on another people. The Palestinians are responsible for as much violence and ignorance as Israel is, and probably more. Both sides need to work towards peace because it is better for them to do so, rather than waiting for the other guy to do so first.

sai baba

according to Wikipedia, both Osama bin Laden and Mohammed Atta, the 9/11 leader were very heavily influenced towards terrorism by Israel's horrific atrocities in Lebanon.

Israel killed 20,000 totally innocent Lebanese in its 1982 invasion and tens of thousands more since

actions breed reactions

you are being foolish if you deny this

on the other hand it was Hitler and the tsar's persecution of jews that created modern Zionism and Israel in the first place

Israel is hitler's main modern legacy

without hitler there would be a large and hopefully thriving jewish community in Palestine but they would never have had the international clout or desperation needed to steal the whole bloody country of Palestine or whatever it would have been called; possibly Jordan or Syria

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

From your link http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

The Jewish Agency accepted the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.

What the Palestinians and the Arabs said was correct.

UN Charter definition

“By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, without external interference, their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter."

The right to self-determination - IHL

The British. when they defined the meaning of the mandate in their 1939 white paper, said that they could not impose a Jewish state in Palestine against the will of the people. This complies with international law.

When the UN Security Council contemplated the implementation of resolution 181 they said that they could not impose a Jewish state in Palestine against the will of the people. The Security Council did not implement resolution 181. This complies with international law.

Neither the mandate nor the UN created the state of Israel.

Also from your link

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel...

The Jewish Agency is a foreign organization created in Zurich, Switzerland in 1929 by the foreign World Zionist Organization.

Israel was unilaterally proclaimed by foreigners inside Palestine against the will of the people. Those are the documented facts. You can call that "alternate history" if you like.

 

[proudveteran06]

Rocco,

From your link http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

The Jewish Agency accepted the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.

What the Palestinians and the Arabs said was correct.

UN Charter definition

“By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, without external interference, their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter."

The right to self-determination - IHL

The British. when they defined the meaning of the mandate in their 1939 white paper, said that they could not impose a Jewish state in Palestine against the will of the people. This complies with international law.

When the UN Security Council contemplated the implementation of resolution 181 they said that they could not impose a Jewish state in Palestine against the will of the people. The Security Council did not implement resolution 181. This complies with international law.

Neither the mandate nor the UN created the state of Israel.

Also from your link

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel...

The Jewish Agency is a foreign organization created in Zurich, Switzerland in 1929 by the foreign World Zionist Organization.

Israel was unilaterally proclaimed by foreigners inside Palestine against the will of the people. Those are the documented facts. You can call that "alternate history" if you like.

Yawn. ...... Israel exists . Don't like it? Too bad