"You didn't get there on your own"

[Dr Grump]

I see the handout entitlement crowd has arrived. Obama's not planning on giving you a raise from all of this, but keeping acting like you are.

I see the "We'll make any shit we like up about what Obama said" crowd has arrived.

Just so you know, you can call an apple and orange as many times as you like. You can even gift wrap it and turn into a kewpie doll if you like. But, alas, it still remains an apple...

 

[saveliberty]

I know, when is the left going to stop and call what Obama did by its real name. The socialist has lifted his mask. Deal with it. By the way, he considers his supporters little more than pawns, so don't think his opinion of you is any different than the rest of us.

 

[Mac1958]

This is a point that's being overlooked (gee, I wonder why). Obama's comments were questionable if taken in a vacuum, but they fit right into the theme that Obama and the Democrats are anti-business. It's a little tougher to believe the spin when taken in the larger context.

And then there is the passage that pissed me off, personally - "I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there."

That's the President of the United States first putting words (bolded, to make it simple) into the mouths of business owners, and then mocking them for those words. Does anyone else recall such a statement from a President?

You say you know what we think? You don't. You couldn't.

And business owners don't talk about what you claim. I'm with them every day. They're too busy trying to keep the doors open.

You can't spin an insult.

.

Y'know, I've brought this up at least a couple of times now, and I can't get any of the spinners to provide a response.

I realize it can't be spun with the diversionary "roads and bridges" schtick, but can't you come up with something else here?

.

I think you need to look at yourself and the Ayn Rand conservatives who have espoused on this board, in the political arena and on the airwaves their firm belief in what conservatism has devolved into...social Darwinism. Survival of the richest and calling hard working American working class people 'parasites', 'takers' and 'moochers'. While those 'parasites', 'takers' and 'moochers' have sent their sons and daughters off to die on foreign soil to WHOSE financial benefit?

Well, that was a lovely diversionary effort, and it's nice to know that I'm now an Ayn Rand conservative. At least until a right-winger calls me a "commie" next.

So, that's it? May I assume that you agree with Obama's mockery?

Yikes.

.

 

[Mr.Nick]

A government is part of a soceity, Dipshit. Anybody who says otherwise is, well, a Dipshit....





...oh that's right..




...carry on.....

It's not that simple dipshit - we have a Bill of Rights dipshit...

Government cant just do whatever the **** they want dipshit..

Understand dipshit?

Which has what to do with my point Retard?

here, I'll even give you a hint: NOTHING...understand yet, Retard?

You don't have one...

 

[Dr Grump]

I know, when is the left going to stop and call what Obama did by its real name. The socialist has lifted his mask. Deal with it. By the way, he considers his supporters little more than pawns, so don't think his opinion of you is any different than the rest of us.

Depends on when the right are going to stop reading more into what he said, other than what he said.

You do realise that the only people who are buying your argument are neocon whackjobs, right? Centrists, liberals, normals and independents are laughing at you right now. If only one of those groups was, or even two, you might have a point. But when they all are?

You remind me of group of people watching the Super Bowl and a person comes in and says, "How many rebounds has Iversen got?"

Yes, you are that out of whack....but, hey, if you want to live in la-la land...

 

[Dr Grump]

It's not that simple dipshit - we have a Bill of Rights dipshit...

Government cant just do whatever the **** they want dipshit..

Understand dipshit?

Which has what to do with my point Retard?

here, I'll even give you a hint: NOTHING...understand yet, Retard?

You don't have one...

Oh, there was a point all right.
I'm not sitting here wondering why it went over your head. It's par for the course. Carry on...

 

[Mr.Nick]

Y'know, I've brought this up at least a couple of times now, and I can't get any of the spinners to provide a response.

I realize it can't be spun with the diversionary "roads and bridges" schtick, but can't you come up with something else here?

.

I think you need to look at yourself and the Ayn Rand conservatives who have espoused on this board, in the political arena and on the airwaves their firm belief in what conservatism has devolved into...social Darwinism. Survival of the richest and calling hard working American working class people 'parasites', 'takers' and 'moochers'. While those 'parasites', 'takers' and 'moochers' have sent their sons and daughters off to die on foreign soil to WHOSE financial benefit?

Well, that was a lovely diversionary effort, and it's nice to know that I'm now an Ayn Rand conservative. At least until a right-winger calls me a "commie" next.

So, that's it? May I assume that you agree with Obama's mockery?

Yikes.

.

There is no such thing as an "Ayn Rand Conservative."

 

[saveliberty]

The last gasp of a losing argument, attack the poster. lol

In the context of the whole speech, which the left reminds us is necessary, it started out talking about taxes. Then it moved to the small business owner and how they didn't succeed by themselves and owe the government more (taxes). The logic was clear and pointed. How you missed it is a mystery.

 

[Mac1958]

I think you need to look at yourself and the Ayn Rand conservatives who have espoused on this board, in the political arena and on the airwaves their firm belief in what conservatism has devolved into...social Darwinism. Survival of the richest and calling hard working American working class people 'parasites', 'takers' and 'moochers'. While those 'parasites', 'takers' and 'moochers' have sent their sons and daughters off to die on foreign soil to WHOSE financial benefit?

Well, that was a lovely diversionary effort, and it's nice to know that I'm now an Ayn Rand conservative. At least until a right-winger calls me a "commie" next.

So, that's it? May I assume that you agree with Obama's mockery?

Yikes.

.

There is no such thing as an "Ayn Rand Conservative."

Well, whatever, I was just hoping for a direct response to my post and I can't seem to get one.

.

 

[saveliberty]

Well, that was a lovely diversionary effort, and it's nice to know that I'm now an Ayn Rand conservative. At least until a right-winger calls me a "commie" next.

So, that's it? May I assume that you agree with Obama's mockery?

Yikes.

.

There is no such thing as an "Ayn Rand Conservative."

Well, whatever, I was just hoping for a direct response to my post and I can't seem to get one.

.

...I can call you a commie, if it helps.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Which has what to do with my point Retard?

here, I'll even give you a hint: NOTHING...understand yet, Retard?

You don't have one...

Oh, there was a point all right.
I'm not sitting here wondering why it went over your head. It's par for the course. Carry on...

No, sorry you didn't...

Can you make a point in a single sentence?

 

[Dr Grump]

The last gasp of a losing argument, attack the poster. lol

In the context of the whole speech, which the left reminds us is necessary, it started out talking about taxes. Then it moved to the small business owner and how they didn't succeed by themselves and owe the government more (taxes). The logic was clear and pointed. How you missed it is a mystery.

I assume you're talking to me, but since you are not quoting posts I have no idea.

I was not attacking you in the slightest. I can only gauge what goes on by people's reactions around me and what I read. The international reaction to his speech has been zero. It appears it hasn't made much of a dent in the US either other than on this board. Only right-wing shills have been banging on about it and they seem marginalised at the best of times. And that is what I see. Now if you fall into the neocon category that I talked about then that is on you.

As for what he actually said, this is what I heard.

People like me (Obama) earn enough money that we can pay more taxes. Now before all you people like me rant and rave about only you earned this type of money and the govt only wants more, remember this: you didnt do it one your own. It was a combined effort - your ingenuity, and by working together, we have accomplished this together.

And do you know the funniest thing about this whole thing? All these 'small' business owners that think Obama was having a crack at them probably don't even fit into the category he was mentioning.

Look at the facts: He earns $400,000 as president and a lot more in other ventures. Those are the types that can afford more taxes and who he was having a crack at. Most small businesses are things like plumbers, electricians, bakers, car repairers, etc. You think they earn those kinds of dollars? Does the average plumber drive around in the latest Beamer, Merc or Porsche? No. He was talking about the top 1 percent. But, no! The neocon whackjobs on this board an their enablers think he's having a crack and mom and pop stores yadda, yadda. And THAT is why I laugh at you, as do most of the rest of the world. We look at what he ACTUALLY said instead of what our partisan blinders would LIKE him to have MEANT. Two different things.

So you carry on in our ignorant bliss, and we'll carry on laughing and pat you on the head like the good little partisan that you are.

 

[tjvh]

Liberals: Obama didn't say what he said (even though we have video, and transcripts), well he said what he said but he meant something completely different than what he said and how dare Conservatives misinterpret what he said even though he said it, because it wasn't meant to be interpreted exactly how Obama said it, it was meant to mean something different than how Conservatives interpreted it.... Phew... I think I got it now.

 

[Dr Grump]

You don't have one...

Oh, there was a point all right.
I'm not sitting here wondering why it went over your head. It's par for the course. Carry on...

No, sorry you didn't...

Can you make a point in a single sentence?

Sure. Your old man got his arse kicked by the cops because your brother is a thief..

Actually, that might be two points...

 

[Dr Grump]

Liberals: Obama didn't say what he said (even though we have video, and transcripts), well he said what he said but he meant something completely different than what he said and how dare Conservatives misinterpret what he said even though he said it, because it wasn't meant to be interpreted exactly how Obama said it, it was meant to mean something different than how Conservatives interpreted it.... Phew... I think I got it now.

Er, not even close.

Here I'll help you. This is what you meant: "Obama said some shit that dissed busineses. Even though he didn't say that at all, if I repeat it enough, I'm hoping some people will believe it. And even if they don't believe it, and he didn't say it, I don't care. I'm a partisan hack and I will be heard!"

Now say thank you...

 

[Uncensored2008]

No. Papa O was talking about the contribution that THE PEOPLE put into the system, bulding roads and schools and fire houses and cop shops.

Why do so many people forget that WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT?!?!?!?!

Because we aren't.

 

[saveliberty]

I assume you're talking to me, but since you are not quoting posts I have no idea.

I was not attacking you in the slightest. I can only gauge what goes on by people's reactions around me and what I read. The international reaction to his speech has been zero. It appears it hasn't made much of a dent in the US either other than on this board. Only right-wing shills have been banging on about it and they seem marginalised at the best of times. And that is what I see. Now if you fall into the neocon category that I talked about then that is on you.

As for what he actually said, this is what I heard.

People like me (Obama) earn enough money that we can pay more taxes. Now before all you people like me rant and rave about only you earned this type of money and the govt only wants more, remember this: you didnt do it one your own. It was a combined effort - your ingenuity, and by working together, we have accomplished this together.

And do you know the funniest thing about this whole thing? All these 'small' business owners that think Obama was having a crack at them probably don't even fit into the category he was mentioning.

Look at the facts: He earns $400,000 as president and a lot more in other ventures. Those are the types that can afford more taxes and who he was having a crack at. Most small businesses are things like plumbers, electricians, bakers, car repairers, etc. You think they earn those kinds of dollars? Does the average plumber drive around in the latest Beamer, Merc or Porsche? No. He was talking about the top 1 percent. But, no! The neocon whackjobs on this board an their enablers think he's having a crack and mom and pop stores yadda, yadda. And THAT is why I laugh at you, as do most of the rest of the world. We look at what he ACTUALLY said instead of what our partisan blinders would LIKE him to have MEANT. Two different things.

So you carry on in our ignorant bliss, and we'll carry on laughing and pat you on the head like the good little partisan that you are.

Why should interenational reactions have anything to do with domestic policy? It is a fallacy of the left. He never referred to the top 1%. It was directed at small business owners and that is clearly not the top 1%. Recast the speech as you will. It is your only defense.

 

[Dr Grump]

I assume you're talking to me, but since you are not quoting posts I have no idea.

I was not attacking you in the slightest. I can only gauge what goes on by people's reactions around me and what I read. The international reaction to his speech has been zero. It appears it hasn't made much of a dent in the US either other than on this board. Only right-wing shills have been banging on about it and they seem marginalised at the best of times. And that is what I see. Now if you fall into the neocon category that I talked about then that is on you.

As for what he actually said, this is what I heard.

People like me (Obama) earn enough money that we can pay more taxes. Now before all you people like me rant and rave about only you earned this type of money and the govt only wants more, remember this: you didnt do it one your own. It was a combined effort - your ingenuity, and by working together, we have accomplished this together.

And do you know the funniest thing about this whole thing? All these 'small' business owners that think Obama was having a crack at them probably don't even fit into the category he was mentioning.

Look at the facts: He earns $400,000 as president and a lot more in other ventures. Those are the types that can afford more taxes and who he was having a crack at. Most small businesses are things like plumbers, electricians, bakers, car repairers, etc. You think they earn those kinds of dollars? Does the average plumber drive around in the latest Beamer, Merc or Porsche? No. He was talking about the top 1 percent. But, no! The neocon whackjobs on this board an their enablers think he's having a crack and mom and pop stores yadda, yadda. And THAT is why I laugh at you, as do most of the rest of the world. We look at what he ACTUALLY said instead of what our partisan blinders would LIKE him to have MEANT. Two different things.

So you carry on in our ignorant bliss, and we'll carry on laughing and pat you on the head like the good little partisan that you are.

Why should interenational reactions have anything to do with domestic policy? It is a fallacy of the left. He never referred to the top 1%. It was directed at small business owners and that is clearly not the top 1%. Recast the speech as you will. It is your only defense.

So when he said "people like me can afford to pay more" he was referring to small business owners. So Obama earned $1.7 million in 2011 and $5.5 million in 2010. And this is what the average small business owner earns? Ooookaayy....Wow, small business owners must be at the end of the rainbow!

 

[Listening]

I see the handout entitlement crowd has arrived. Obama's not planning on giving you a raise from all of this, but keeping acting like you are.

I see the "We'll make any shit we like up about what Obama said" crowd has arrived.

Just so you know, you can call an apple and orange as many times as you like. You can even gift wrap it and turn into a kewpie doll if you like. But, alas, it still remains an apple...

Correct.

He said what he said....spin all you want.....he said it.

They didn't build anything (just who is somebody else....could someone please tell me that ?). We built it meaning you helped build it....not somebody else and using his logic, no matter who you look at.....somebody else built that.

Which is just his way of saying "we did this together"....after he said "somebody else ? The man is a jackass.

And if we do this together, please put a 2% minimum of fed taxes on everyone so the bottom 47% pay something. Let's see how happy they are about doing things together.

If brains were dynamite, David Axelrod couldn't blow the fuzz off of a bee's balls.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No its NOT stupid. Not when youve LIVED it!


Weve seen this very principle IN ACTION within the last decade. When the bridge fell here in Minneapolis. Businesses were hurt when their customers could no longer reach them. Many small mom and pop operations on one side of the river or the other either hit sudden hard times or went under completely. Through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. A bridge fell and suddenly their customer base disappeared.

Remember the old saying, " Location, Location, Location" ?

Guess who does the districting? Guess who decides where the roads will go? Where the next bridge gets built?

Its the community NOT the single rugged individual business owner that decides such things. The community and therefore the government decides which location, location, location is going to be the prime location.

It is stupid.

Foundational infrastructure is not the basis of success. If it were, then as Dr. House pointed out, all business would succeed. But most small business fails. In a strip mall in suburban Anaheim, a dress shop and a barbeque restaurant open, next door to each other, within a week of each other. The dress shop plastered their window with a grand opening gala, bring in clothes with missing buttons or small tears, and they'll fix them free, as a way to introduce themselves. My wife took several items down and talked for what seemed like weeks with the owner, who also was a chatterbox. After that, we dropped in the BBQ place for lunch. It was clean, and we sat at a booth, and waited, and waited, and waited. Finally a waiter came and started speaking Spanish, I'm from German stock, first generation and my wife is a naturalized American who was a German National, neither of us look particularly Mexican, and this wasn't a Mexican restaurant. He left and another man came out and asked our order in English. The food took quite awhile to arrive, and when it did, it was okay, not great, but passable.

Two years later and the dress shop is doing great. My wife goes to chat as much as to shop, but she always buys things. The Barbeque joint? Oh, it didn't last three months.

Both of these are at La Palma and Tustin in Anaheim, both have the same streets and lights, same cops and fire. So what did Obama do that made the Dress Shop succeed, but he didn't do for the BBQ place., Remember, Anna didn't build that, Barack did, but why did Barack fail with the restaurant? You know, since it is he and government that make business succeed and not the initiative of the business owner?