"You didn't get there on your own"

[Neotrotsky]

It was there when we had slavery
It was there when we had Japanese Americans locked up in camps

oh wait....

 

[Vidi]

No one makes it on their own. Successful budiness owners have families and employees and customers who help a business grow. But Papa O wasnt talking about their contributions and rewards. He was talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I can say with certainty that the feds did nothing to help our business. Nothing. And shut up about the ******* roads. Most of them belong to the state.

No. Papa O was talking about the contribution that THE PEOPLE put into the system, bulding roads and schools and fire houses and cop shops.

Well that's just stupid... Those same roads, bridges, schools and fire houses didn't help the failed businesses...

If they helped the successful businesses then they didn't help the failed businesses...

IOW, you need to remove them from the equation...

No its NOT stupid. Not when youve LIVED it!


Weve seen this very principle IN ACTION within the last decade. When the bridge fell here in Minneapolis. Businesses were hurt when their customers could no longer reach them. Many small mom and pop operations on one side of the river or the other either hit sudden hard times or went under completely. Through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. A bridge fell and suddenly their customer base disappeared.

Remember the old saying, " Location, Location, Location" ?

Guess who does the districting? Guess who decides where the roads will go? Where the next bridge gets built?

Its the community NOT the single rugged individual business owner that decides such things. The community and therefore the government decides which location, location, location is going to be the prime location.

 

[Vidi]

It was there when we had slavery
It was there when we had Japanese Americans locked up in camps

oh wait....

No keep going because youre absolutely RIGHT. 110% correct in fact. The government is US, the PEOPLE. And people are flawed and make HORRIBLE mistakes.

We CANNOT accept the benefits of self governance and ignore the penalties and responsibilities that go along with that. We MUST be honest about our mistakes, accept blame and learn from them or we are doomed to repeat them over and over again.

So please, by all means, continue your list.

 

[Dr.House]

No. Papa O was talking about the contribution that THE PEOPLE put into the system, bulding roads and schools and fire houses and cop shops.

Well that's just stupid... Those same roads, bridges, schools and fire houses didn't help the failed businesses...

If they helped the successful businesses then they didn't help the failed businesses...

IOW, you need to remove them from the equation...

No its NOT stupid. Not when youve LIVED it!


Weve seen this very principle IN ACTION within the last decade. When the bridge fell here in Minneapolis. Businesses were hurt when their customers could no longer reach them. Many small mom and pop operations on one side of the river or the other either hit sudden hard times or went under completely. Through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. A bridge fell and suddenly their customer base disappeared.

Some businesses succeeded after that collapse and others didn't...

You CANNOT use bridges and roads as a measure of success for a business...

Remember the old saying, " Location, Location, Location" ?

Guess who does the districting? Guess who decides where the roads will go? Where the next bridge gets built?

Its the community NOT the single rugged individual business owner that decides such things. The community and therefore the government decides which location, location, location is going to be the prime location.

Yet 0bama said his remarks to ALL successful businesses... Not just the ones with prime location...

There are others in a warehouse on the end of a dirt road who are successful....

Businesses on the same street fail while others succeed....

Barry was fucked-up wrong...

 

[Vidi]

Well that's just stupid... Those same roads, bridges, schools and fire houses didn't help the failed businesses...

If they helped the successful businesses then they didn't help the failed businesses...

IOW, you need to remove them from the equation...

No its NOT stupid. Not when youve LIVED it!


Weve seen this very principle IN ACTION within the last decade. When the bridge fell here in Minneapolis. Businesses were hurt when their customers could no longer reach them. Many small mom and pop operations on one side of the river or the other either hit sudden hard times or went under completely. Through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. A bridge fell and suddenly their customer base disappeared.

Some businesses succeeded after that collapse and others didn't...

You CANNOT use bridges and roads as a measure of success for a business...

Remember the old saying, " Location, Location, Location" ?

Guess who does the districting? Guess who decides where the roads will go? Where the next bridge gets built?

Its the community NOT the single rugged individual business owner that decides such things. The community and therefore the government decides which location, location, location is going to be the prime location.

Yet 0bama said his remarks to ALL successful businesses... Not just the ones with prime location...

There are others in a warehouse on the end of a dirt road who are successful....

Businesses on the same street fail while others succeed....

Barry was fucked-up wrong...

/facepalm

wow, way to laser focus on a tree and COMPLETELY miss the forest.

 

[Dr.House]

/facepalm

wow, way to laser focus on a tree and COMPLETELY miss the forest.

Way to defend Barry's dumbass remarks...

Again, for those who fail to see reality: Bridges and roads are there for customers of failed businesses and successful businesses...

To credit them for the success of some while ignoring them for the failure of others is beyond stupid...

 

[Vidi]

/facepalm

wow, way to laser focus on a tree and COMPLETELY miss the forest.

Way to defend Barry's dumbass remarks...

Again, for those who fail to see reality: Bridges and roads are there for customers of failed businesses and successful businesses...

To credit them for the success of some while ignoring them for the failure of others is beyond stupid...

I just credited them for the failure of once successful businesses.

So again I issue the challenge: Show me an example of a successful business that NEVER utilized the commons.

Until you CAN, your argument is invalid.

 

[Dr.House]

/facepalm

wow, way to laser focus on a tree and COMPLETELY miss the forest.

Way to defend Barry's dumbass remarks...

Again, for those who fail to see reality: Bridges and roads are there for customers of failed businesses and successful businesses...

To credit them for the success of some while ignoring them for the failure of others is beyond stupid...

I just credited them for the failure of once successful businesses.

So again I issue the challenge: Show me an example of a successful business that NEVER utilized the commons.

Until you CAN, your argument is invalid.

Bullshit....

You and Barry are the ones making the claim that it was roads and bridges that made all businesses successful... Those same roads and bridges failed other businesses on the same ******* block...

You and Barry's argument failed before it was uttered....

What a dumb argument....

 

[regent]

Reminds one of the Hoover speeches during the Great Depression. Hoover telling Americans how self reliant they were; able to do for themselves even as some starved and died from malnutriion. But some bought that bunk, some probably believing they began life by delivering themselves at birth.
Man is one of the most dependent creatures on earth. The long childhood is ample evidence. To deny humans are not dependent on others, we need only to look about us, and in additon we are dependent upon government including conservatives and businessmen. If we were not dependent on government why would our founders have needed to change our government making it stronger, larger, with tremendous new powers, and some of those powers created were to help businessmen. But because we are dependent on others, America needs business, industry, hospitals, schools doctors all that make a nation.

 

[saveliberty]

I don't see where if you use a preexisting resource you have no right to claim you succeeded on your own merits. Those resources were paid in full from the past and given equally as an opportunity for all. Penalizing or diminishing what that person accomplished as government given is just plain wrong.

 

[Vidi]

I don't see where if you use a preexisting resource you have no right to claim you succeeded on your own merits. Those resources were paid in full from the past and given equally as an opportunity for all. Penalizing or diminishing what that person accomplished as government given is just plain wrong.

Thats not what Im saying at all.

First let me answer your "paid in full" statement. What is paid in full? Is the highway system done? Because theres an old joke here in Minnesota, we have two seasons: Winter and Highway Construction.


Which resource is "paid in full"? Which one doesnt have to constantly be renewed? Do we not need to train new fire people, police officers, teachers? Do we not constantly have to repair our infrastructure?

The previous generation maintained our society for us to inherit. We must do the same for the next.

Second, who says the government gave them their success? I certainly didnt. I did say they didnt do it all on their own. I will say that NO MAN IS AN ISLAND.

Look Im a fairly successful business owner. I own several businesses. I worked my ass off to make them successful, but in the end, I didnt do it alone. I didnt educate my workers. I didnt build the roads that my products are delvered on. I had help. And no successful business owner can HONESTLY say they did it all on their own.

My taxes will go to maintain those roads, possibly build new ones. My taxes will go to educate the next generation fo workers. My taxes will train the next generation of teachers and police officers and firemen and soldiers that will defend my freedom and the freedom of my children.

I OWE it to this country that provided me the opportunity to become successful to do what I can to provide that same opportunity to others. Because I sure as hell wouldnt have had this opportunity in Russia, or China.

Its called Patriotism. Patriotism isnt about selfish greed. Its about pledging your life, your honor and your fortune to the country you love. Either you have it, and you understand what Im talking about, or you dont, and you dont.

 

[Dr.House]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

 

[saveliberty]

I don't see where if you use a preexisting resource you have no right to claim you succeeded on your own merits. Those resources were paid in full from the past and given equally as an opportunity for all. Penalizing or diminishing what that person accomplished as government given is just plain wrong.

Thats not what Im saying at all.

First let me answer your "paid in full" statement. What is paid in full? Is the highway system done? Because theres an old joke here in Minnesota, we have two seasons: Winter and Highway Construction.


Which resource is "paid in full"? Which one doesnt have to constantly be renewed? Do we not need to train new fire people, police officers, teachers? Do we not constantly have to repair our infrastructure?

The previous generation maintained our society for us to inherit. We must do the same for the next.

Second, who says the government gave them their success? I certainly didnt. I did say they didnt do it all on their own. I will say that NO MAN IS AN ISLAND.

Look Im a fairly successful business owner. I own several businesses. I worked my ass off to make them successful, but in the end, I didnt do it alone. I didnt educate my workers. I didnt build the roads that my products are delvered on. I had help. And no successful business owner can HONESTLY say they did it all on their own.

My taxes will go to maintain those roads, possibly build new ones. My taxes will go to educate the next generation fo workers. My taxes will train the next generation of teachers and police officers and firemen and soldiers that will defend my freedom and the freedom of my children.

I OWE it to this country that provided me the opportunity to become successful to do what I can to provide that same opportunity to others. Because I sure as hell wouldnt have had this opportunity in Russia, or China.

Its called Patriotism. Patriotism isnt about selfish greed. Its about pledging your life, your honor and your fortune to the country you love. Either you have it, and you understand what Im talking about, or you dont, and you dont.

You're under the false impresssion that we are paying anything forward in this government. So much debt has been accumulated, that we can't even pay for the recent past. How dare you suggest you are paying a single thing forward. It is unpatriotic to burden the future with your present wants, yet that is what you are doing.

 

[Vidi]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

Sorry House old buddy, youre missing the point.

YES, the business owner is a MAJOR factor. I couldnt have been successful WITHOUT my own contribution. But I also couldnnt have been successful WITHOUT the contribution of society. and THAT was Obamas point. And one Im sorry to say you missed.


In fairness, Obama didnt make the point nearly as well as Elizabeth Warren did.

 

[saveliberty]

Nope, Obama said all of that to justify raising taxes. Assuming a successful person owes more than his fellow Americans. Its socialist and wrong.

 

[Dr Grump]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

But you're giving a circular argument to validate your hatred of Obama. How can a road or a bridge 'fail' a business unless a bridge collapsed and deliveries couldn't be made. However, a working road or bridge does add to the success. You are giving the scenario's equal value when you shouldn't.

Obama is only wrong if he said things that the right are trying to make out he said. In context, he never said those things. Only a partisan hack would say otherwise. So, are you? A partisan hack that is...

 

[Vidi]

I don't see where if you use a preexisting resource you have no right to claim you succeeded on your own merits. Those resources were paid in full from the past and given equally as an opportunity for all. Penalizing or diminishing what that person accomplished as government given is just plain wrong.

Thats not what Im saying at all.

First let me answer your "paid in full" statement. What is paid in full? Is the highway system done? Because theres an old joke here in Minnesota, we have two seasons: Winter and Highway Construction.


Which resource is "paid in full"? Which one doesnt have to constantly be renewed? Do we not need to train new fire people, police officers, teachers? Do we not constantly have to repair our infrastructure?

The previous generation maintained our society for us to inherit. We must do the same for the next.

Second, who says the government gave them their success? I certainly didnt. I did say they didnt do it all on their own. I will say that NO MAN IS AN ISLAND.

Look Im a fairly successful business owner. I own several businesses. I worked my ass off to make them successful, but in the end, I didnt do it alone. I didnt educate my workers. I didnt build the roads that my products are delvered on. I had help. And no successful business owner can HONESTLY say they did it all on their own.

My taxes will go to maintain those roads, possibly build new ones. My taxes will go to educate the next generation fo workers. My taxes will train the next generation of teachers and police officers and firemen and soldiers that will defend my freedom and the freedom of my children.

I OWE it to this country that provided me the opportunity to become successful to do what I can to provide that same opportunity to others. Because I sure as hell wouldnt have had this opportunity in Russia, or China.

Its called Patriotism. Patriotism isnt about selfish greed. Its about pledging your life, your honor and your fortune to the country you love. Either you have it, and you understand what Im talking about, or you dont, and you dont.

You're under the false impresssion that we are paying anything forward in this government. So much debt has been accumulated, that we can't even pay for the recent past. How dare you suggest you are paying a single thing forward. It is unpatriotic to burden the future with your present wants, yet that is what you are doing.

I couldnt agree with you more. Which is WHY I support a MAJOR raise in taxes. WE need to pay for this. Not our children or our grandchildren...US!

Look, since the Reagan years ( back in high school ) all I heard was how my generation was going to be the first to do worse than our parents because of the rising debt. And its only gotten worse. The Baby Boomers really fucked us, lets just be honest about that. They put everything on a credit card and pushed the bill onto the next generation...talk about taxation without representation huh?...well, that next generation is US.

It wont be easy. Hell, after world war 2 the top tax rate was 91%!!!!!!! Thats crazy, but thats what was required to get the country on track and turn it into the superpower that it became.

Now Im not saying we should go back to 91% by any means, but the difference is the "greatest generation" were willing to make the sacrifices neccessary to provide for the future of this great nation.

Are we?

 

[saveliberty]

This might surprise you, but I think taxes should go up too. My concern is that government show fiscal responsibility with what they already have before we give them more to use. Real annual balanced budgets actually approved by Congress. A true fix to secure the future of Social Security. Things like that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

NBCNews.com Video Player


You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities. All right! [pumps fist].

- Mitt Romney 2002

My how times have changed...oh no, wait, no they haven't, it's just Mitt!

No, times have changed. We've gone from "let's cheer and applaud the individuals in a person's life who stood by them" to "let's cheer and applaud the government that made it all possible, and give it more tax money".

Oh, and once upon a time, there were a lot fewer people as stupid and gullible as you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

NBCNews.com Video Player


You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities. All right! [pumps fist].

- Mitt Romney 2002

My how times have changed...oh no, wait, no they haven't, it's just Mitt!

Mitt did not suggest for a minute that the Olympians did not put in the work, effort, endure the pain, the disappointments, and the struggle to reach a level to become competitive in the Olympics. The fact that others supported them along the way takes nothing away from their own efforts. No suggestion that those medals should be cut up and distributed to everybody because the Olympians don't deserve to keep them.

Obama tells us who built businesses that we didn't do that but government did it; that we owe everybody else our profits because we don't deserve them.

"We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities."

Pay your tax to the support staff!


Show me a successful business on an island with ONE person one it?

And if Obama had been talking about simply appreciating the other private individuals in the community, that would have been one thing. But he wasn't. He was specifically talking about all the goodies that government, in his opinion, gifted business owners with, and how they NOW needed to stop bitching and cough up more money.

There's no "tax" involved in giving people a round of applause, dipshit. Only you leftists would be ignorant enough to conflate applause with taxes.