Yet Another Group Wants Its Own Law

[Si modo]

No way shape or form should any religion take over the jobs of our courts. Without exception, the US Law must reign supreme over the land. No religious court should exist in our country. And I don't care what religion it is.

Exactly.

 

[Madeline]

No way shape or form should any religion take over the jobs of our courts. Without exception, the US Law must reign supreme over the land. No religious court should exist in our country. And I don't care what religion it is.

Yes, but Ollie, no civil court in the US outlaws a joint motion to dismiss. All of them enforce contractual agreements to arbitrate disputes. All our family law courts give great weight to any agreement the parties may reach.

Jurisdiction does not always require that the court itself impose a decision on the parties; sometimes -- actually, quite often -- it means they oversee a decision made jointly by the parties.

Meanwhile, all religious courts hear matters that a civil court is not competent to hear. You cannot "litigate" whether a child is a Jew in a US civil court, nor whether a marriage was "Catholic", etc.

The only ADR process I'm aware of that has had any success in usurping the criminal court's jurisdiction -- and not by much -- are those of Native Americans, as to crimes committed by tribe members against tribe members on tribe land. And this cannot be replicated by any other group, as Native peoples have sovereignty rights that no other Americans ever will.

 

[Sallow]

I'm basically against any religion or ethnicity weighing in on matters of law..civil or criminal.

Our American Courts work pretty well for the most part. You don't like American Justice? This might not be the country for you then.

 

[Sunni Man]

No way shape or form should any religion take over the jobs of our courts. Without exception, the US Law must reign supreme over the land. No religious court should exist in our country. And I don't care what religion it is.

The Jews have had their own courts, called the Beth din, here in the U.S. for decades and no one seemed to care.

Beth din - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I grew up in Oklahoma around several Indian reservations; Comanche, Apache, Kiowa, and a couple of others.

They have their own Courts, judges, police, etc.

btw Heaven help a white man if he has to go to tribal court on Indian land against an Indian in a legal dispute.

 

[Madeline]

I'm basically against any religion or ethnicity weighing in on matters of law..civil or criminal.

Our American Courts work pretty well for the most part. You don't like American Justice? This might not be the country for you then.

Let's compare two situations, Sallow. As Sunni Man has pointed out, under Sharia Law the woman gets custody of small children automatically. So, two American Muslim parents seek a divorce and present the court with an agreement under which this will happen.

Will the court bless it? 9 times out of 10, yes...just as it would such an agreement from any other divorcing parents. But if a grandmother or any other person makes the court aware that the mother is unfit, the court will open a custody hearing, get the kids a guardian ad liitem, etc.

The agreement of the parties is persuasive, whether it orginated in a religious court or not. It is never, ever binding.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The thing about Shariah law is the Muslim woman will feel under enormous pressue to agree to let the case be handled by Shariah, and in turn will end up getting fucked because Shariah always goes on the side of the man.

Incorrect

Muslim women want to go before a Sharia Court just the same as muslim men do.

And Sharia Courts do not favor either the man or the woman in making judgments.

Sure thing. Remind us what woman WANTS to be unable to leave the house without a male family members permission or attendance? What free woman wants a chaperon and a religious decision on who she can and can not see, where and when she wants too? The list goes on and on of all the rights and privileges that women lose under Sharia law. Hell if she is raped SHE is prosecuted, she is murdered by her own family for the disgrace of having had sex out of wedlock. And you want us to believe women in Ilslam are treated the same as men. GIVE me a break you liar.

 

[Madeline]

The thing about Shariah law is the Muslim woman will feel under enormous pressue to agree to let the case be handled by Shariah, and in turn will end up getting fucked because Shariah always goes on the side of the man.

Incorrect

Muslim women want to go before a Sharia Court just the same as muslim men do.

And Sharia Courts do not favor either the man or the woman in making judgments.

Sure thing. Remind us what woman WANTS to be unable to leave the house without a male family members permission or attendance? What free woman wants a chaperon and a religious decision on who she can and can not see, where and when she wants too? The list goes on and on of all the rights and privileges that women lose under Sharia law. Hell if she is raped SHE is prosecuted, she is murdered by her own family for the disgrace of having had sex out of wedlock. And you want us to believe women in Ilslam are treated the same as men. GIVE me a break you liar.

May we see a link to a news story about a DA in the US prosecuting a rape victim, RGS? No?

Then stop bitching about the legal systems of other nations...that ain't today's topic.

 

[High_Gravity]

1. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. Sura 5:90-91.

2. Islam allows husbands to beat their wives. Qur’an, 4:34

3. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge, physical eye for physical eye. Qur’an, 5:45

4. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. Qur’an, 5:38

5. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. Qur’an, 5:33. As an alternative, the convicted may have a hand and the opposite foot cut off while being banished from the land instead of crucifixion.

6. Islam commands that Homosexuals be executed. Abdu Dawud no. 447. Burning to death, stoned while against a wall, or stoned and thrown over a cliff.

7. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. Qur’an, 24-6

8. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

9. Islam orders apostates to be killed. Sura 9:11-12

10. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

This doesn't sound very compatible with American law to me.

 

[High_Gravity]

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

What the **** is wrong with our heads to even contemplate adding Shariah to our laws?

 

[Madeline]

1. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. Sura 5:90-91.

2. Islam allows husbands to beat their wives. Qur’an, 4:34

3. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge, physical eye for physical eye. Qur’an, 5:45

4. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. Qur’an, 5:38

5. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. Qur’an, 5:33. As an alternative, the convicted may have a hand and the opposite foot cut off while being banished from the land instead of crucifixion.

6. Islam commands that Homosexuals be executed. Abdu Dawud no. 447. Burning to death, stoned while against a wall, or stoned and thrown over a cliff.

7. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. Qur’an, 24-6

8. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

9. Islam orders apostates to be killed. Sura 9:11-12

10. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

This doesn't sound very compatible with American law to me.

Islam may well command such things, High Gravity. US law does not permit them, so Muslims in the US either will conform their conduct to the requirements of law or pay the consequences. I dun expect this will be a ginormous problem, do you?

BTW, the Bible also commands Christians and Jews to punish certain "crimes" by stoning the malfeasors to death. That has not been happening a lot here either. Most people can distinguish between ancient religious laws and modern justice.

 

[Madeline]

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

What the **** is wrong with our heads to even contemplate adding Shariah to our laws?

"Adding" Sharia Law in what way, High Gravity?

 

[High_Gravity]

1. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. Sura 5:90-91.

2. Islam allows husbands to beat their wives. Qur’an, 4:34

3. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge, physical eye for physical eye. Qur’an, 5:45

4. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. Qur’an, 5:38

5. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. Qur’an, 5:33. As an alternative, the convicted may have a hand and the opposite foot cut off while being banished from the land instead of crucifixion.

6. Islam commands that Homosexuals be executed. Abdu Dawud no. 447. Burning to death, stoned while against a wall, or stoned and thrown over a cliff.

7. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. Qur’an, 24-6

8. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

9. Islam orders apostates to be killed. Sura 9:11-12

10. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

This doesn't sound very compatible with American law to me.

Islam may well command such things, High Gravity. US law does not permit them, so Muslims in the US either will conform their conduct to the requirements of law or pay the consequences. I dun expect this will be a ginormous problem, do you?

BTW, the Bible also commands Christians and Jews to punish certain "crimes" by stoning the malfeasors to death. That has not been happening a lot here either. Most people can distinguish between ancient religious laws and modern justice.

It is haram for man to make any changes to Islamic law as they come directly from God. I have spent some time in the Middle east and have talked to many Muslims about this, they will not tolerate an American judge picking and choosing what parts of Shariah they may or may not adhere to.

 

[High_Gravity]

BTW, the Bible also commands Christians and Jews to punish certain "crimes" by stoning the malfeasors to death. That has not been happening a lot here either. Most people can distinguish between ancient religious laws and modern justice.

Yes but Christians and Jews don't follow their religion word by word, there are no Christian or Jewish countries that follow the Bible and the Torah to the exact word. There are many Muslim countries who follow the Quran verbatim, i.e Pakistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia etc.

 

[High_Gravity]

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

What the **** is wrong with our heads to even contemplate adding Shariah to our laws?

"Adding" Sharia Law in what way, High Gravity?

By even having these kind of laws in our court system, period.

 

[Madeline]

Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America - Santa Ana Statehouse | Examiner.com

What the **** is wrong with our heads to even contemplate adding Shariah to our laws?

"Adding" Sharia Law in what way, High Gravity?

By even having these kind of laws in our court system, period.

These "laws" form no part of our court system, High Gravity. Many are expressly prohibited by our constitution...mutilation, for example. No "law" of any religion forms any part of US law unless expressly adopted by a legislature as a statute.

These "laws" may or may not be a part of a faithful Muslim's religious beliefs.....but they do not control what is legal in the US for anyone.

 

[High_Gravity]

"Adding" Sharia Law in what way, High Gravity?

By even having these kind of laws in our court system, period.

These "laws" form no part of our court system, High Gravity. Many are expressly prohibited by our constitution...mutilation, for example. No "law" of any religion forms any part of US law unless expressly adopted by a legislature as a statute.

These "laws" may or may not be a part of a faithful Muslim's religious beliefs.....but they do not control what is legal in the US for anyone.

I really hope it stays that was Madeline, those laws have no place here. I live in America to be away from barbaric laws like that, if I wanted to adhere to Shariah I would move to the mountains of Pakistan.

 

[Madeline]

BTW, the Bible also commands Christians and Jews to punish certain "crimes" by stoning the malfeasors to death. That has not been happening a lot here either. Most people can distinguish between ancient religious laws and modern justice.

Yes but Christians and Jews don't follow their religion word by word, there are no Christian or Jewish countries that follow the Bible and the Torah to the exact word. There are many Muslim countries who follow the Quran verbatim, i.e Pakistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia etc.

Many christians and Jews do think they strictly adhere to the Bible, High Gravity -- they just all disagree on how it should be interpreted. Somalia seems like anarchy to me. Saudi Arabi is a monarchy with a theologian in charge. I am not sure what Pakistan is.

It doesn't seem likely to me that all 1.5 Billion Muslims on Planet Earth read the Koran the same way. Why else would there be different sects of Muslims?

I think what sets you back is that there is a horrendous level of human rights violations in some predominately Muslin nations.....but these are largely Third World nations, facing many cultural barriers to better lives for their citizens. And human rights violations occur in other nations (e.g., China) as well. Poverty and despair is not good for justice, anywhere.

 

[jillian]

I really hope it stays that was Madeline, those laws have no place here. I live in America to be away from barbaric laws like that, if I wanted to adhere to Shariah I would move to the mountains of Pakistan.

It will remain the case so long as we protect the separation of church and state.

 

[Madeline]

By even having these kind of laws in our court system, period.

These "laws" form no part of our court system, High Gravity. Many are expressly prohibited by our constitution...mutilation, for example. No "law" of any religion forms any part of US law unless expressly adopted by a legislature as a statute.

These "laws" may or may not be a part of a faithful Muslim's religious beliefs.....but they do not control what is legal in the US for anyone.

I really hope it stays that was Madeline, those laws have no place here. I live in America to be away from barbaric laws like that, if I wanted to adhere to Shariah I would move to the mountains of Pakistan.

I dun anticipate a major immigration wave to the US from the middle east, High Gravity, and I dun anticipate a huge number of Americans will convert to Islam. I think the most you'll ever have to be concerned with is stuff like this.....

Berkeley schools sued over denial of Muslim pilgrimage - Chicago Breaking News

We Americans are mostly unfamiliar with Islam, and its practices seem alien to us. But with time, we'll get over that, Muslims will be assimiliated and we'll all get on.

 

[High_Gravity]

BTW, the Bible also commands Christians and Jews to punish certain "crimes" by stoning the malfeasors to death. That has not been happening a lot here either. Most people can distinguish between ancient religious laws and modern justice.

Yes but Christians and Jews don't follow their religion word by word, there are no Christian or Jewish countries that follow the Bible and the Torah to the exact word. There are many Muslim countries who follow the Quran verbatim, i.e Pakistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia etc.

Many christians and Jews do think they strictly adhere to the Bible, High Gravity -- they just all disagree on how it should be interpreted. Somalia seems like anarchy to me. Saudi Arabi is a monarchy with a theologian in charge. I am not sure what Pakistan is.

It doesn't seem likely to me that all 1.5 Billion Muslims on Planet Earth read the Koran the same way. Why else would there be different sects of Muslims?

I think what sets you back is that there is a horrendous level of human rights violations in some predominately Muslin nations.....but these are largely Third World nations, facing many cultural barriers to better lives for their citizens. And human rights violations occur in other nations (e.g., China) as well. Poverty and despair is not good for justice, anywhere.

My point is I don't see any Christians raping their wives or commiting honor killings and saying the Bible said so, so it is my right. We have had 2 incidents like that happen in the US where the Muslim defendant tried to hide behind Shariah, allowing these rules into our courts is going to cause a shit storm.Saudi Arabia and Pakistan do adhere to Shariah, in Pakistan a Christian woman was charged with Blashphemy for insulting the prophet, they were trying to give her the death penatly I believe. Saudi Arabia routinely executes gay, people who commit adultry, drug dealers, etc and Somalia is in anarchy Al Shabab, a Somali terrorist group, control large parts of the country and they do enforce Shariaw law, they even shot dead a crowd of people watching the world cup on tv because supposedly watching tv is unislamic. I don't want any of these things in my country.