WTF, This is what we believe?

[SFC Ollie]

Cecilie1200, you do not know the story.

I noticed that a book study made by Fawn McKay Brodie, the UCLA historian, whose research in the plantation records reveal only one Jefferson (Thomas) male at the plantation nine months prior to the birth of each of the five children, was left out of the PBS study below.

A great review of the major discussions and points from the beginning to 2000 can be found at frontline: jefferson's blood: the history of a story | PBS

PBS? You're quoting ******* PBS at me? Shut the **** up.

Background DNA Study Thomas Jefferson – Sally Hemings

Tell me again how I "don't know the story", dumbfuck.

This is super. As my family is related to Thomas Jefferson, it is a good thing to know that what we believed is probably untrue. Sorry for all those who believed they were related to Jefferson and aren't. Jefferson is the maternal cousin of John Marshall, Who is the Brother of my Great Great great Grandfather.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Cecilie1200, you do not know the story.

I noticed that a book study made by Fawn McKay Brodie, the UCLA historian, whose research in the plantation records reveal only one Jefferson (Thomas) male at the plantation nine months prior to the birth of each of the five children, was left out of the PBS study below.

A great review of the major discussions and points from the beginning to 2000 can be found at frontline: jefferson's blood: the history of a story | PBS

PBS? You're quoting ******* PBS at me? Shut the **** up.

Background DNA Study Thomas Jefferson – Sally Hemings

Tell me again how I "don't know the story", dumbfuck.

You don't know the story, and your comments have revealed just how silly you are. The fact that you rely on a hack like Barger, a hired gun to twist the evidence, proves it. I wonder why you are being the hack yourself.

Most reputable historians accept that TJ is the father of at least one of the children.

The larger portion of the Jefferson descendants' groups accept that the Hemings descendants are their relatives through TJ.

Please don't write until you have your facts, right, because you will just continue to look stupid, as you did above.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Cecilie1200, you do not know the story.

I noticed that a book study made by Fawn McKay Brodie, the UCLA historian, whose research in the plantation records reveal only one Jefferson (Thomas) male at the plantation nine months prior to the birth of each of the five children, was left out of the PBS study below.

A great review of the major discussions and points from the beginning to 2000 can be found at frontline: jefferson's blood: the history of a story | PBS

PBS? You're quoting ******* PBS at me? Shut the **** up.

Background DNA Study Thomas Jefferson – Sally Hemings

Tell me again how I "don't know the story", dumbfuck.

This is super. As my family is related to Thomas Jefferson, it is a good thing to know that what we believed is probably untrue. Sorry for all those who believed they were related to Jefferson and aren't. Jefferson is the maternal cousin of John Marshall, Who is the Brother of my Great Great great Grandfather.

Don't pay attention to, CC, Ollie. She has only a part of the story, the minor portion of it, and she is flatly wrong. Do all the research, and you will see that it is so.

John Marshall is one of my heroes by the way, a great economic nationalist and the force behind the doctrine of judicial review.

 

[SFC Ollie]

PBS? You're quoting ******* PBS at me? Shut the **** up.

Background DNA Study Thomas Jefferson – Sally Hemings

Tell me again how I "don't know the story", dumbfuck.

This is super. As my family is related to Thomas Jefferson, it is a good thing to know that what we believed is probably untrue. Sorry for all those who believed they were related to Jefferson and aren't. Jefferson is the maternal cousin of John Marshall, Who is the Brother of my Great Great great Grandfather.

Don't pay attention to, CC, Ollie. She has only a part of the story, the minor portion of it, and she is flatly wrong. Do all the research, and you will see that it is so.

John Marshall is one of my heroes by the way, a great economic nationalist and the force behind the doctrine of judicial review.

Fact is Jake, that Cecilie"s article spelled out more fact than yours and proved that Thomas Jefferson could only have been one of possibly eight people to father one child from Sally Hemings, and it goes on to show that there is a very good chance that it was his brother and not him who fathered that child. I think I like the results of investigation she shows a lot more than what has generally been believed. Your article mentions the DNA testing as proof positive and it is not.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, it did not, Ollie. I know both sites and I know the evidence backwards and forwards. What you are missing is the DNA evidence indicates he is the father of at least one and possibly all five. Throw in the research in the farm records that reveal only TJ was available at the farm the nine months before each of the births, and it is an almost slam dunk case. That is why CC is looking so silly. Most reputable historians now accept that TJ and SH were a major thing with several children the result.

 

[SFC Ollie]

No, it did not, Ollie. I know both sites and I know the evidence backwards and forwards. What you are missing is the DNA evidence indicates he is the father of at least one and possibly all five. Throw in the research in the farm records that reveal only TJ was available at the farm the nine months before each of the births, and it is an almost slam dunk case. That is why CC is looking so silly. Most reputable historians now accept that TJ and SH were a major thing with several children the result.

Seems to me that Herbert Barger told more of the truth along those lines. Jefferson was actually ruled out by DNA evidence on all except the last of Sally's children. And all the DNA could prove was that a Jefferson was the father. His research also showed that Randolph Jefferson was at Monticello 9 months prior to the birth and 6 days after the birth.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, it did not, Ollie. I know both sites and I know the evidence backwards and forwards. What you are missing is the DNA evidence indicates he is the father of at least one and possibly all five. Throw in the research in the farm records that reveal only TJ was available at the farm the nine months before each of the births, and it is an almost slam dunk case. That is why CC is looking so silly. Most reputable historians now accept that TJ and SH were a major thing with several children the result.

Seems to me that Herbert Barger told more of the truth along those lines. Jefferson was actually ruled out by DNA evidence on all except the last of Sally's children. And all the DNA could prove was that a Jefferson was the father. His research also showed that Randolph Jefferson was at Monticello 9 months prior to the birth and 6 days after the birth.

You don't have all the material, Ollie, but believe as you will. I wish you the best today.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, it did not, Ollie. I know both sites and I know the evidence backwards and forwards. What you are missing is the DNA evidence indicates he is the father of at least one and possibly all five. Throw in the research in the farm records that reveal only TJ was available at the farm the nine months before each of the births, and it is an almost slam dunk case. That is why CC is looking so silly. Most reputable historians now accept that TJ and SH were a major thing with several children the result.

Well, let's review the evidence and see who looks silly, shall we, dumbfuck?

On February 24, 2003, The Thomas Jefferson (Memorial) Foundation revised their statement regarding the children of Sally Hemings:

Although the relationship between Jefferson and Sally Hemings has been for many years, and will surely continue to be, a subject of intense interest to historians and the public, the evidence is not definitive, and the complete story may never be known. The Foundation encourages our visitors and patrons, based on what evidence does exist, to make up their own minds as to the true nature of the relationship.

Huh. "Most reputable historians", you say, and yet the Thomas Jefferson (Memorial) Foundation condradicts you. Yeah, it really looks like you know the evidence backward and forward . . . excepting that.

Now, let's investigate this statement of yours, Mr. "I-know-the-evidence-backward-and-forward":

What you are missing is the DNA evidence indicates he is the father of at least one and possibly all five.

From Monticello.org:

The DNA study found no link between the descendants of Field Jefferson and Thomas C. Woodson (1790-1879), whose family members have long held that he was the first son of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings.

Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings

So no, DNA evidence does NOT, in any way, indicate that he is the father of "possibly all five". In fact, it conclusively states that he was NOT the father of at least one. Who looks silly, dumbfuck? Or would you like to tell us you know more about what the DNA study says than they do?

By the way, just as an aside, Sally Hemings had more than five children.

I've already linked to MY evidence that, in fact, other Jefferson males WERE available at Monticello at the times of conception for her children. Please link us now to the evidence for YOUR claim that ONLY Thomas Jefferson was there, because I KNOW you don't think anyone's going to take YOUR word for it, dumbfuck.

Throw in the research in the farm records that reveal only TJ was available at the farm the nine months before each of the births,

Your words. Now let's see your proof.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your research is outdated, and the questions indicate a void. Yes, I will fill them, but not tonight. I can get to it this weekend. This is a great subject, with much misinformation out there.

 

[Dante]

That is precisely what I argued, read my very first post on the matter, I said Christian ideals, I did NOT say our government was intended to be a Christian gov't.

So, we agree. No need to go further?



Yes they did, at the state level, at the federal level they were unanimously in agreement that the federal gov't should stay out of religion. The very beginning of state's rights really.

Well since I personally believe that the first two people put on this earth were in fact Jews, I do not agree that Jewish principles are based off older principles. That however is a matter of belief and there is no point in you and I debating it here.


Well of course it wasn't founded by ONLY Christians, only a simpleton would argue such, just as only a simpleton would argue that the overwhelming majority of our founding fathers were not Christians, they were and it can't be debated.

Now back to Christian ideals. I'm assuming you are not a Christian (please correct me if I'm wrong?) But wouldn't you agree that the morals espoused by Christians are a good thing? (Note let's be clear that Christians do not always follow those morals themselves and that that should in no way dilute the ideal behind the moral.) I mean I have known, do know, and probably always will know good honorable people who are not Christians, but they live their lives (pretty much ) by what would be considered Christian values, they just don't believe in the Christian God.

ppppp

hold

please hold


bump

 

[Dante]

Well, let's review the evidence and see who looks silly, shall we, dumbfuck?

On February 24, 2003, The Thomas Jefferson (Memorial) Foundation revised their statement regarding the children of Sally Hemings:

Although the relationship between Jefferson and Sally Hemings has been for many years, and will surely continue to be, a subject of intense interest to historians and the public, the evidence is not definitive, and the complete story may never be known. The Foundation encourages our visitors and patrons, based on what evidence does exist, to make up their own minds as to the true nature of the relationship.

Huh. "Most reputable historians", you say, and yet the Thomas Jefferson (Memorial) Foundation condradicts you. Yeah, it really looks like you know the evidence backward and forward . . . excepting that.

Now, let's investigate this statement of yours, Mr. "I-know-the-evidence-backward-and-forward":

What you are missing is the DNA evidence indicates he is the father of at least one and possibly all five.

From Monticello.org:

The DNA study found no link between the descendants of Field Jefferson and Thomas C. Woodson (1790-1879), whose family members have long held that he was the first son of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings.

Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings

So no, DNA evidence does NOT, in any way, indicate that he is the father of "possibly all five". In fact, it conclusively states that he was NOT the father of at least one. Who looks silly, dumbfuck? Or would you like to tell us you know more about what the DNA study says than they do?

By the way, just as an aside, Sally Hemings had more than five children.

I've already linked to MY evidence that, in fact, other Jefferson males WERE available at Monticello at the times of conception for her children. Please link us now to the evidence for YOUR claim that ONLY Thomas Jefferson was there, because I KNOW you don't think anyone's going to take YOUR word for it, dumbfuck.

Throw in the research in the farm records that reveal only TJ was available at the farm the nine months before each of the births,

Your words. Now let's see your proof.

How did this turn out, eh?

 

[Harry Dresden]

ppppp

hold

please hold


bump

conhog?.....that post is 15 years old....

 

[Dante]

conhog?.....that post is 15 years old....

yes

the content is of interest

Jake here too

 

[Dante]

I got an email about this today and thought I would easily disprove it. I have friends who send me stuff and ask if it's for real. People this is for real. Here is a disclaimer copied from a book being sold on Amazon:

"2008 Wilder Publications

This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today. Parents might wish to discuss with
their children how views on race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, and
interpersonal relations have changed since this book was written before
allowing them to read this classic work."

The name of the book?

The Constitution
The Declaration of Independence and
The Articles of Confederation

Now I understand that yes we have changed the way we think about many things, but this is taught in History classes. Anyone who wants to warn my kids about the Constitution of the United States won't see any dollars from my wallet.

Oh and here is the page on Amazon:

[ame=[URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1604592680/?tag=usmb-20"]Amazon.com[/URL]: The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and the Articles of Confederation (9781604592689): Books[/ame]

Read it for yourself. I still can't believe it.

God forbid anyone teach the history of anything