Working Together: The Mayflower Compact

[PoliticalChic]

November 11, 1620
When it was learned that the Mayflower was landing in New England, and not at the
Hudson River, as specified in their patent, there was great dissention between the Separatists (Pilgrims) and the Strangers. But it was agreed that the only way for the settlement to succeed was if everyone worked together, and that before they landed everyone had to sign a formal and binding agreement. Therefore they hammered out the Mayflower Compact, the first basis for written law in the new world:

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."

John Carver was the agreed upon governor, and on the morning of November 11th, 1620, he led the group forty-one men signed the compact. Of the nine who did not sign, some were sailors signed on for one year, some were too sick.

A study in 2002 found that almost 10% of the population of America can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower.

 

[Si modo]

No DAR for me, though. Not even close.

 

[Bfgrn]

November 11, 1620
When it was learned that the Mayflower was landing in New England, and not at the
Hudson River, as specified in their patent, there was great dissention between the Separatists (Pilgrims) and the Strangers. But it was agreed that the only way for the settlement to succeed was if everyone worked together, and that before they landed everyone had to sign a formal and binding agreement. Therefore they hammered out the Mayflower Compact, the first basis for written law in the new world:

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."

John Carver was the agreed upon governor, and on the morning of November 11th, 1620, he led the group forty-one men signed the compact. Of the nine who did not sign, some were sailors signed on for one year, some were too sick.

A study in 2002 found that almost 10% of the population of America can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower.

It matches the 10% in this country that are still dominionists...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

November 11, 1620
When it was learned that the Mayflower was landing in New England, and not at the
Hudson River, as specified in their patent, there was great dissention between the Separatists (Pilgrims) and the Strangers. But it was agreed that the only way for the settlement to succeed was if everyone worked together, and that before they landed everyone had to sign a formal and binding agreement. Therefore they hammered out the Mayflower Compact, the first basis for written law in the new world:

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."

John Carver was the agreed upon governor, and on the morning of November 11th, 1620, he led the group forty-one men signed the compact. Of the nine who did not sign, some were sailors signed on for one year, some were too sick.

A study in 2002 found that almost 10% of the population of America can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower.

You made a thread about my hometown .

The signers were:

John Carver
William Bradford
Edward Winslow
William Brewster
Isaac Allerton
Miles Standish
John Alden
Samuel Fuller
Christopher Martin
William Mullins William White
James Chilton
John Craxton
John Billington
Richard Warren
John Howland
Steven Hopkins
Edward Tilly
John Tilly
Francis Cook Thomas Rogers
Thomas Tinker
John Rigdale
Edward Fuller
John Turner
Francis Eaton
Moses Fletcher
Digery Priest
Thomas Williams
Gilbert Winslow Edmond Margeson
Peter Brown
Richard Bitteridge
Richard Clark
Richard Gardiner
John Allerton
Thomas English
Edward Doten
Edward Liester
John Goodman
George Soule


Hey look anscestors

 

[Bfgrn]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

no they didn't
Really they didn't


ok ok in all seriousness....the mayflower compact existed WAY before the constitution.

 

[Charles Stucker]

A study in 2002 found that almost 10% of the population of America can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower.

I've met some of the Genealogy nuts who trace their ancestors back to the Mayflower, or George Washington, or Charlemagne, or Julius Caesar, or even Alexander the Great. The results are typically threadbare starting around 1860 and become pure speculation somewhere along the route.
I don't doubt that 10% of the US may have an ancestor from the Mayflower, but rather that 10% could actually show that descent from the existing records.

I agree with the principle of working together, but too many people have radically divergent views to make it practical. As Einstein famously said "Common sense is the set of prejudices one acquires by age eighteen." Most of the extremists on both ends of the political spectrum are filled with such "common" sense.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That does not say what you retards keep claiming it says. There is NO requirement that God not be mentioned by the Government at all. Just that no Church may ever be recognized as the one church for the United States, NO State run church as in England. God is mentioned in many places in our Government. Including the Legislature, the Supreme Court and the Executive branches of our Government. Jefferson attended church every Sunday while in Washington DC. Usually at the Congress itself.

The Senate and the House are opened every day by a prayer from a Religious person. I believe both have paid clergy on Staff. The Supreme Court Building is adorned with numerous religious sculptures and paintings. Our military has a clergy branch in every service. Our money says " In God We Trust".

 

[Bfgrn]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

no they didn't
Really they didn't


Really? Then which religion did they CHOOSE?


"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government.
James Madison - in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
Thomas Jefferson


ok ok in all seriousness....the mayflower compact existed WAY before the constitution.

So, go back to your country of Mayflower...

See 'ya!

 

[PoliticalChic]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That does not say what you retards keep claiming it says. There is NO requirement that God not be mentioned by the Government at all. Just that no Church may ever be recognized as the one church for the United States, NO State run church as in England. God is mentioned in many places in our Government. Including the Legislature, the Supreme Court and the Executive branches of our Government. Jefferson attended church every Sunday while in Washington DC. Usually at the Congress itself.

The Senate and the House are opened every day by a prayer from a Religious person. I believe both have paid clergy on Staff. The Supreme Court Building is adorned with numerous religious sculptures and paintings. Our military has a clergy branch in every service. Our money says " In God We Trust".

The significance of the Mayflower Compact has nothing to do with either religion or geneaology.

The Mayflower Compact is important because of its principle, that a government's authority derives from the consent of the governed.

Sorry I didn't spell it out when I posted it.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Sorry PC, I thought it was about working together; by which I mean the need to pull together to reduce the national debt before it drags the country down.
It would be nice if we could, but too many people don't want to take the steps required. Steps like not pointing fingers, reducing spending on everything, eliminating many federal programs altogether and working with the other party.

You are right, the principle of the US government is supposed to be that it derives power from the people governed, but if that were truly the case, states would have the right to secede by virtue of a popular vote.

 

[Old Rocks]

While this is an important historical document in the history of our nation, I could not help but notice the flowery speech so similiar to present Muslim fundementalists.

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."

 

[Liberalism]

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That does not say what you retards keep claiming it says. There is NO requirement that God not be mentioned by the Government at all. Just that no Church may ever be recognized as the one church for the United States, NO State run church as in England. God is mentioned in many places in our Government. Including the Legislature, the Supreme Court and the Executive branches of our Government. Jefferson attended church every Sunday while in Washington DC. Usually at the Congress itself.

The Senate and the House are opened every day by a prayer from a Religious person. I believe both have paid clergy on Staff. The Supreme Court Building is adorned with numerous religious sculptures and paintings. Our military has a clergy branch in every service. Our money says " In God We Trust".

The significance of the Mayflower Compact has nothing to do with either religion or geneaology.

The Mayflower Compact is important because of its principle, that a government's authority derives from the consent of the governed.

Sorry I didn't spell it out when I posted it.

I have a few question: Were the signatories of the compact agreeing under conditions that could be labelled as being under duress? Are contracts made under duress valid and enforceable?

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Why do doofuses like you always rush to include Jefferson in with the Framers of the Constitution? This completely aside from your illiteracy in understanding the meaning of the First Amendment.

 

[Liberalism]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Why do doofuses like you always rush to include Jefferson in with the Framers of the Constitution? This completely aside from your illiteracy in understanding the meaning of the First Amendment.

Since you bring up understanding as an issue, could you please lay out your understanding of the meaning of the First Amendment?

 

[Cecilie1200]

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Why do doofuses like you always rush to include Jefferson in with the Framers of the Constitution? This completely aside from your illiteracy in understanding the meaning of the First Amendment.

Since you bring up understanding as an issue, could you please lay out your understanding of the meaning of the First Amendment?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Congress shall make no law - Congress is the legislative body of the United States federal government, and it isn't allowed to make any laws whatsoever concerning the items following this phrase.

Respecting an establishment of religion - Merriam-Webster tells us that "respecting" is a preposition meaning "in view of; considering" and "with respect to; concerning". In this context, it would be "concerning". Likewise, Merriam-Webster tells us that "establishment" means "something established, as in a settled arrangement". "Religion", of course, is "the service and worship of God or the supernatural". Put together, this phrase would be ". . . concerning a church or religious organization."

Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof - "Prohibiting" means "to forbid by authority". "Exercise" is "the act of bringing into play or realizing in action". So this would be ". . . or stopping people from acting on their religion".

Or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press - "Abridging", of course, means "to reduce in scope, deprive, or diminish". So this would be "diminishing the freedom of speech or of the press".

Or the right of the people peaceably to assemble - This refers back to the word "abridge", which as we earlier settled, Congress is not allowed to do to these listed items. "Peaceably" is "not contentious or quarrelsome; quietly behaved". "Assemble" would be "to bring together (as in a particular place or for a particular purpose)".

And to petition the Government for a redress of grievances - "Petition" is "an earnest request". The government would be the federal government, although I'd say that it would also include any lower governments. "Redress" is "to set right or remedy". "Grievances" would be "a cause of distress felt to afford reason for complaint".

So let's review. Paraphrased, the First Amendment would be "The legislature of the federal government cannot make any laws concerning religious organizations or stopping people from acting on their religious beliefs; it cannot make any laws reducing the right of freedom of speech, or of the press; it cannot make any laws reducing the right of the people to gather together in a quiet, non-quarrelsome way, or to earnestly request that the government fix causes of distress."

I hope this clarifies the language of the First Amendment for you.

 

[Liberalism]

Why do doofuses like you always rush to include Jefferson in with the Framers of the Constitution? This completely aside from your illiteracy in understanding the meaning of the First Amendment.

Since you bring up understanding as an issue, could you please lay out your understanding of the meaning of the First Amendment?

I hope this clarifies the language of the First Amendment for you.

Listing the words of an amendment itself is not explaining what you think the meaning of the amendment is. Why can you not explain what you think the meaning is?

 

[Bfgrn]

It's clearly Unconstitutional what with "God" and all, I can see Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Breyer, White and Kennedy voting to strike it down

And SO DID Jefferson, Madison and our founding fathers...

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Why do doofuses like you always rush to include Jefferson in with the Framers of the Constitution? This completely aside from your illiteracy in understanding the meaning of the First Amendment.

Well Cec, if you're going to call me a doofus, and then go off on a long diatribe dissecting each and every word in the Bill of Rights...start HERE:

I SAID founding fathers...
YOU SAID framers of the Constitution...

NOW, tell me Thomas Jefferson is not one of our founding fathers...

The first amendment and the Establishment Clause...gee, I bet this is the first time this subject has ever been discussed in our nation's history...

Well, we could take a doofus approach...go off on a long diatribe dissecting each and every word in the Bill of Rights using 21st century word definitions, oblivious to the evolution of language...or...maybe there are MORE resources to digest and consider? Better get out your thesaurus Cec and use it on The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom and Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists...Our founding fathers wrote letters and papers that gave us further insight into their beliefs and intent...

BTW, Thomas Jefferson, while U.S. Minister to France at the time, wrote James Madison that he was concerned about "the omission of a bill of rights." Madison took Jefferson's notes and shared them with Hamilton, Adams, Mason, and others, and then sent a letter to Jefferson outlining the objections to a Bill of Rights that had been raised by the members of the constitutional convention.

Now Cec, I want you to consider the word "privacy" in the context of it's meaning in Thomas Jefferson's day...and why that word doesn't appear in the Bill of Rights...please don't be a doofus and knock over any chamber pots...

 

[Cecilie1200]

Since you bring up understanding as an issue, could you please lay out your understanding of the meaning of the First Amendment?

I hope this clarifies the language of the First Amendment for you.

Listing the words of an amendment itself is not explaining what you think the meaning of the amendment is. Why can you not explain what you think the meaning is?

So basically, you're stupid. Glad we cleared that up.

Continuing my bad habit of casting pearls before swine, let me explain the painfully obvious fact that I didn't "list the words of the Amendment". That would be just repeating the Amendment itself. What I did was tell you the definitions - known to literate people as "meanings" - of the words, and then paraphrase them - known to literate people as "restating to give the meaning" - both as clauses and then as a whole.

In other words, Brain Trust, I explained, in excruciating detail with simple words, what the Amendment ACTUALLY MEANS. Which, just so I don't confuse you again, is also what I think it means, since as a literate person, I think words mean what they actually, in fact, mean.

I realize that in your illiterate leftist Bizarro World, explaining what you think something means involves making up definitions on the spur of the moment, according to how you feel and what you really wish was true. I, however, live in the real world, and speak an actual language which requires hard, clear word definitions.

Hope your head doesn't implode from the contact with reality and logic.