Wonder Why "They" Hate US? Could Be Europe

[Bullypulpit]

How do we address those issues? Allow Iran to develop nukes? Is that a good idea? Give us one concrete suggestion to address your concerns and let's talk about it.

Why not? We allowed Pakistan and India to develope nukes whit little more than an occasional scolding.

In order to even begin to address the issues, our government must first stop its sabre-rattling. It was this jingoism which led to a resurgence in the power of the fundamentalist mullah's in Iran. It has also contributed mightily to the intransigence of Iran on the nuclear issue. They feel wholly justified in their pursuit of nuclear weapons in light of the Bush administration's ill-concieved, ill-omened and ill-advised war of aggression into Iraq, prior to which, Iran was evolving into, if not a wholly secular society, at least one less controlled by fundamentalist mullahs.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Well I see that this discussion has elevated itself to new lofty heights of intellectual discourse...

You're retarded.

You're a drooling imbecile.

Lotsa luck, *****.

...I guess if Larry Flynt can be considered an intellectual that is...

 

[Bullypulpit]

Ah, at long last - a candid, coherent, and substantive thought! What a shame your refreshing honesty is not shared by the squirming maggots who wilt in the glare of the Oil-for-Food investigation. You have just summed up the true attitude of cynical, ungrateful, amoral Post-Christian Europe. But, soon you'll be calling your rotting continent by a new name:

Post - American Defense Europe.

Lotsa luck, *****.

Oil-for-Food investigation....That's rich! LOL! Let's talk about the $8.8 billion in taxpayer dollars that disappeared into Iraq unaccounted for by J. Paul Bremer's pro-consular government in Iraq. The monies involved in tawdry little UN scandal are a drop in the bucket compared to the sums involved Bremer's lax leadership and accountancy in Iraq.

 

[musicman]

Well I see that this discussion has elevated itself to new lofty heights of intellectual discourse...
...I guess if Larry Flynt can be considered an intellectual that is...

I disagree, Hag. Sometimes, the blunt response is the only appropriate course. This particular Eurolib's posts are clearly the work of a retarded, imbecilic *****. Why waste time and words?

Besides - given the intellectual emptiness of YOUR performance thus far on this board, I'm surprised you even poke your head out of your cave.

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by theHawk:
Tell us how you REALLY feel Harmo !!!

I feel mighty fine, thank's for asking.
Several replies here make me proud even.
Proud to be Dutch, that is.

How about you?


Ok, several posts have been taken care of I see, so I'll just pick up the trail from here:

Originally posted by musicman:
I disagree, Hag. Sometimes, the blunt response is the only appropriate course. This particular Eurolib's posts are clearly the work of a retarded, imbecilic *****. Why waste time and words?

Dude, can you type regular posts instead of rants?
All this manly talk could get you banned you know.

Originally posted by musicman:
Besides - given the intellectual emptiness of YOUR performance thus far on this board, I'm surprised you even poke your head out of your cave.

Ah well, at least you're consistent.
Nobody escapes the wrath of musicman

So now we've established you're the greatest, can we get on with the discussion? What on earth makes you think the Europeans are cuddling with Muslims and being blind to the secret takeover of our governments of these Muslims? Have you any source other than the discredited article that started this thread to back up such an outrageous claim?

By the way, on the subject of Muslims, maybe you should check some threads in the Europe section, I've posted some stuff there. My opinion. Gives you a little more insight perhaps as to what I'm thinking.

It should result in a more comprehensive approach to the reply button.

 

[musicman]

Dude, can you type regular posts instead of rants?
All this manly talk could get you banned you know.
Ah well, at least you're consistent.
Nobody escapes the wrath of musicman
So now we've established you're the greatest, can we get on with the discussion?

Positively dazzling.

What on earth makes you think the Europeans are cuddling with Muslims and being blind to the secret takeover of our governments of these Muslims? Have you any source other than the discredited article that started this thread to back up such an outrageous claim?

By the way, on the subject of Muslims, maybe you should check some threads in the Europe section, I've posted some stuff there. My opinion. Gives you a little more insight perhaps as to what I'm thinking.

It should result in a more comprehensive approach to the reply button.

Are you aware that not one word of the preceding post has the slightest relevance to anything I've said?

 

[musicman]

Oil-for-Food investigation....That's rich! LOL! Let's talk about the $8.8 billion in taxpayer dollars that disappeared into Iraq unaccounted for by J. Paul Bremer's pro-consular government in Iraq. The monies involved in tawdry little UN scandal are a drop in the bucket compared to the sums involved Bremer's lax leadership and accountancy in Iraq.

What are you saying, exactly - that Fact A somehow negates or renders Fact B meaningless? The "dilute, deflect, misdirect" gambit is such a relex with you, I sometimes think you believe it yourself. More's the pity.

The Oil-for-Food Scandal HAPPENED, Bully. It's out there, and heads are rolling. More important, Americans finally see the U.N. for the gang of maggots it is.

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by musicman:
Are you aware that not one word of the preceding post has the slightest relevance to anything I've said?

Yes. Since you answer to relevant statements by calling me an "imbecile" and a "retard" - how inventive, you must be a linguist - I figured it might be worth a try to post some totally irrelevant stuff. Considering your elegant view on the world, that would provoke a statement without swearwords.

By the looks of your reply, It worked.

If you want pain, all you need to do is ask

Then we have Bullypulpit's claim that the Oil for Food schandal pales in comparison to your own governments oil schandal.

And yet you choose to ignore the schandal perpetrated by your own government, because hey,
[sarcasm mode]"they got fucked by Americans, **** yeah! Stupid sh*ts that got screwed over, serves 'em right. That's what you get when you're living in a 14th century country, f*ckin' retards." [/sarcasm mode]

So what's up with the fuss for the Oil for Food program.
It's like you're screaming about some splinter in the UNs eyes, while ignoring the forest in the US administration's and your own eyes.
It is the definition of the "hypocrit" that follows these lines of thought.

Personally, because I think they are both scandals, heads should roll for it.
And if the size of the crime is any indication to the punishment that shall have to be dealt on the criminals involve, that should be equally proportionate.

Stating that the UN are thus maggots, what does that make your government. Tapeworms?

 

[musicman]

Yes. Since you answer to relevant statements by calling me an "imbecile" and a "retard"

But, you insist on saying imbecilic and retarded things.

how inventive, you must be a linguist

Yes - a CUNNING linguist, actually...

I figured it might be worth a try to post some totally irrelevant stuff.

A novel approach, I must admit. Imbecilic and retarded, but novel.

Considering your elegant view on the world, that would provoke a statement without swearwords.
By the looks of your reply, It worked.

Well, I must apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities. Perhaps we can restore the high tone you established previously. Let's see....what were you saying? Oh, yeah - "**** you American bitches...let's just make money off both sides...". Better?

If you want pain, all you need to do is ask

What color is the sky in your world?

Then we have Bullypulpit's claim that the Oil for Food schandal pales in comparison to your own governments oil schandal.

I believe Bully used the words "...lax leadership and accountancy...". That's a pretty far cry from outright theft which undermines international justice and enables a murderous dictator.

Stating that the UN are thus maggots, what does that make your government. Tapeworms?

No - HOSTS, as usual.

 

[ThomasPaine]

The Netherlands happens to be the insignificant nation that has created the Euro, which is about to wipe off the remains of the American dollar of the face of the earth.

Could you back that assertion up with a link? Evidence?
Actually, America is fighting itself, and pretty effectively too.
Did you know over half your countrymen do no longer support the Iraq war,
nor the run up to it? Seems you've got enemies in your backyard.
They may even want to take over your world.


From the article, nimbwit.
When you assert that Europe is behind the Muslim threat, then we are the ultimate benefactors. Hence, the greatest threat to the US.
Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ahhh, the typical reply of the neo-fascist.
Dance, baby, dance.

There are NO NEO-Fasicts in this country short of the amusing but insignificant skin head types. Get your political terminology correct euro. We are Neo-conservatives whom after 9-11 determined that the 1990's American foreign policy of isolationism/appeasement was not going to make the world safer but instead had created a void in the world power structure. With the fall of the Soviet Union the United States SHOULD have stepped in, established itself worldwide as the sole superpower, and ensured peace. Instead Billy Jeff Clinton and his liberal isolationist/appeasers sought to make the world safe for American apologies for being the sole superpower. Hence growing terrorism, Al-Queda, and 9-11. After that September it became apparent to thinking Americans that a Pax Americana was necessary for the "New World Order" (Not my choice of terms) as no other nation had the military, or the intellectual, power to drive the world. So now Euro you can sit tight there in Euroland and benefit from the American largesse of covering for your European ass for the last 60 years. Your welcome, and, by the way, we are unlikely to do so again, so clue to you, build your military if you want to defend yourselves or have any THOUGHTS of standing in our way. Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Bullypulpit]

What are you saying, exactly - that Fact A somehow negates or renders Fact B meaningless? The "dilute, deflect, misdirect" gambit is such a relex with you, I sometimes think you believe it yourself. More's the pity.

The Oil-for-Food Scandal HAPPENED, Bully. It's out there, and heads are rolling. More important, Americans finally see the U.N. for the gang of maggots it is.

No, I'm merely saying that your jingoistic mind-set is incapable of seeing the big-picture. There's no debating the fact that the scandal happened on Khofi Anan's watch. But if we are going to pursue such trifling matters abroad, when will we pursue the larger matters at home?

 

[musicman]

No, I'm merely saying that your jingoistic mind-set is incapable of seeing the big-picture. There's no debating the fact that the scandal happened on Khofi Anan's watch. But if we are going to pursue such trifling matters abroad, when will we pursue the larger matters at home?

Do I understand you to say that the Oil-for-Food Scandal is a "trifling matter"?

I'd say the fact that Saddam was able to flout toothless U.N. Resolutions for a dozen years is more easily explained when you consider that THESE TWO-DOLLAR U.N. WHORES WERE IN BED WITH HIM THE WHOLE TIME!

I'm seeing the big picture just fine, Bully. Post-Christian Europe, under the auspices of the hopelessly corrupt den of thieves, child-rapists, and tyrants known as the U.N., represents the utopian ideal so fervently hoped for by the American Left. Remember the words, "global test"? This nation must never be seduced into their trap. Make the desirability - the absolute NECESSITY - of a strong, sovereign America the starting point of your thoughts, and I believe you'll see that stopping tyranny is indeed a matter worth pursuing.

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by musicman:
But, you insist on saying imbecilic and retarded things.

Your opinion is obvious. However, I've not seen any factual statements from you, you kind of get caught between "imbecile" and "Eurolibs". Thus, my opinion of you is based on the following:

Originally posted by musicman:
Postwar European nations prospered and thrived in a freak, alternate reality - in which they had to expend neither blood nor treasure in their own defense. Once the Soviet threat evaporated, it became easy to feel that they had been above it all - to forget that the crude American gunslinger had, in fact, saved their asses. People thus divorced from reality are susceptible to foolishness in all its forms, as we are seeing. I'm beginning to wonder if we really did them any favors.

Originally posted by musicman:I disagree, Hag. Sometimes, the blunt response is the only appropriate course. This particular Eurolib's posts are clearly the work of a retarded, imbecilic *****. Why waste time and words?

Besides - given the intellectual emptiness of YOUR performance thus far on this board, I'm surprised you even poke your head out of your cave.

Fascism (from Google, define: fascism)
(a) The Fascists were viciously anti-Communist and anti- liberal and, once in power, relied on an authoritarian state apparatus. They also used emotive slogans and old prejudices (for example, against the Jews) to bolster the leader's strongman appeal.

(b) A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority, rather than personal or individual freedoms.

(c) An extreme form of nationalism that played on fears of communism and rejected individual freedom, liberal individualism, democracy, and limitations on the state.

Look, you are a (neo)fascist - an adherent of fascism or other right-wing authoritarian views - and that should be a compliment to you.

Originally posted by musicman:
Yes - a CUNNING linguist, actually...

Let's have some of the cunning then, with a little linguistics on the side...

Originally posted by musicman:
A novel approach, I must admit. Imbecilic and retarded, but novel.
Well, I must apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities. Perhaps we can restore the high tone you established previously. Let's see....what were you saying? Oh, yeah - "**** you American bitches...let's just make money off both sides...". Better?

That was sarcasm, musicman.

Originally posted by musicman:
What color is the sky in your world?

Mostly blue, with white clouds in it. Nowadays, lots of greys too.
How is your new body product doing? Feeling metrosexual already?

Originally posted by musicman:
I believe Bully used the words "...lax leadership and accountancy...". That's a pretty far cry from outright theft which undermines international justice and enables a murderous dictator.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so there is a little opening in the fascist walls you've built around yourself. However, I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it yourself.

(a) 8,8 billion missing from reconstruction funds in Iraq.

"Development Fund for Iraq was to be used for humanitarian needs, economic reconstruction and repair of infrastructure, continued disarmament, costs of civilian administration and other programs benefiting Iraqis."
Oh, I see. Well that explains a lot, it was for the benefit of Iraqi's.
This just blew the lid of the freedom and democracy spin to sell the oil war.
http://www.christianaid.org.uk/indepth/310iraqoil/
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/

(b) Oil for Food program, and subsequent scandals:

Roughly 9 billion dollars is potentially involved in the scandal.

"Contracts to sell Iraq humanitarian goods through the Oil-for-Food Programme were given to companies and individuals based on their willingness to kickback a certain percentage of the contract profits to the Iraqi regime."


"The report also found that individuals and companies in the United States accounted for 52% of all oil-voucher kickbacks paid to Saddam Hussein. The largest of these recipients, Houston based Bayoil and its CEO, Bay Chalmers have been indicted by the US Department of Justice for their actions."

"The Programme's remaining funds of $10 billion were transferred over a 6 month winding-up period to the Development Fund for Iraq"

Development Fund for Iraq, where did the 8,8 billion go missing again?
Together with 52% of the Oil for Food schandal, that makes America the largest thief in the Oil for Food schandal by far. If you weren't a fascist that would make you feel ashamed of your goverment.
Instead, I'll wager it makes you proud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_for_Food_program

Originally posted by musicman:
No - HOSTS, as usual.

HOSTS would be the American general public, actually.
Toss in a few Iraqi's, Afghans, you're getting closer to the real picture of the host.

Originally posted by Thomaspaine:
There are NO NEO-Fasicts in this country short of the amusing but insignificant skin head types.

Meet musicman.

 

[musicman]

Harmageddon:

That you think me in any way fascist demonstrates that you understand nothing of me or fascism.

That you equate the American Right with authoritarianism shows that you understand nothing of America, the Right, or authoritarianism.

That you post links - then attempt to nakedly twist their content so that "inefficiencies and bad management" (this is from YOUR link) are lumped in with outright theft and treachery - tells the world that you understand nothing of straightforwardness and honesty in discourse.

Finally, that you fail to appreciate the contrast between, A) the treatment about to be received by any American crook unfortunate enough to find himself in the crosshairs of the U.S. Department of Justice, and, B) the mutual stonewalling and ass-covering carried out nonstop by your U.N./ Eurowhores, shows that you understand nothing of the light of day.

You don't really understand much of anything, do you?

 

[Harmageddon]

Look musicman, I’ve given you several definitions of fascism.

As you can see, fashism doesn’t necessarily mean you want to exterminate the Jews.

What it does mean, is that corporate power is protected, whereas labour power is suppressed. What it does mean, is that the military receives a disproportionate amount of federal spending – currently more than the rest of the world combined. What it does mean, is rampant cronyism (i.e. favouritism shown to friends and associates, to the point where they are appointed to their positions without regard for their qualifications). What it does mean, what it does mean is powerful and continuing nationalism, to the point where failure by the national government is utterly dismissed or ignored. What it does mean is that religion and government are intertwined: religious rhetoric is used extensively by the government officials, even if the world’s religious leaders are diametrically opposed to the government’s policy. What it does mean is disdain for human rights, which is obvious from Abu Graib and Gitmo and the disdain for the Geneva convention: torture is largely ignored, viewed as insignificant or even approved of.

So you tell me.

I was under the impression that the Democrats have been bought by the Republicans, and as a safety measure, the Republicans have a majority in Congress, a majority in the Supreme Court and they control the Government.

I was under the impression that the above characteristics of fascism were kind of American values nowadays, at least of this administration. Could you point out where this anology fails?

 

[theHawk]

As you can see, fashism doesn’t necessarily mean you want to exterminate the Jews.

What it does mean, is that corporate power is protected, whereas labour power is suppressed. What it does mean, is that the military receives a disproportionate amount of federal spending – currently more than the rest of the world combined. What it does mean, is rampant cronyism (i.e. favouritism shown to friends and associates, to the point where they are appointed to their positions without regard for their qualifications). What it does mean, what it does mean is powerful and continuing nationalism, to the point where failure by the national government is utterly dismissed or ignored. What it does mean is that religion and government are intertwined: religious rhetoric is used extensively by the government officials, even if the world’s religious leaders are diametrically opposed to the government’s policy. What it does mean is disdain for human rights, which is obvious from Abu Graib and Gitmo and the disdain for the Geneva convention: torture is largely ignored, viewed as insignificant or even approved of.

No here is what it means(with the correct spelling):


fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.



Last I noticed we have an elected government. Stop the spin already.

 

[musicman]

Look musicman, I’ve given you several definitions of fascism...

Could you point out where this anology fails?

Precisely where it starts. You and your ilk make this stuff up as you go, tailoring it to whatever is politically expedient at the moment. You've been talking out both sides of your mouths for so long, you wouldn't know an objective, immutable truth if it squashed a pie in your faces. You make me tired all over.

 

[Annie]

Look musicman, I’ve given you several definitions of fascism.

As you can see, fashism doesn’t necessarily mean you want to exterminate the Jews.

What it does mean, is that corporate power is protected, whereas labour power is suppressed. What it does mean, is that the military receives a disproportionate amount of federal spending – currently more than the rest of the world combined. What it does mean, is rampant cronyism (i.e. favouritism shown to friends and associates, to the point where they are appointed to their positions without regard for their qualifications). What it does mean, what it does mean is powerful and continuing nationalism, to the point where failure by the national government is utterly dismissed or ignored. What it does mean is that religion and government are intertwined: religious rhetoric is used extensively by the government officials, even if the world’s religious leaders are diametrically opposed to the government’s policy. What it does mean is disdain for human rights, which is obvious from Abu Graib and Gitmo and the disdain for the Geneva convention: torture is largely ignored, viewed as insignificant or even approved of.

So you tell me.

I was under the impression that the Democrats have been bought by the Republicans, and as a safety measure, the Republicans have a majority in Congress, a majority in the Supreme Court and they control the Government.

I was under the impression that the above characteristics of fascism were kind of American values nowadays, at least of this administration. Could you point out where this anology fails?

Here's a very simple, to the point definition of fascism:

http://dictionary.com

1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.


From a political scientist's dictionary, we get a run-around

http://polisci.nelson.com/glossary.html

fascism An extreme form of nationalism that played on fears of communism and rejected individual freedom, liberal individualism, democracy, and limitations on the state.

So we go to 'nationalism':

nationalism The feeling of loyalty and attachment to one's nation or nation-state, and strong support for its interests.

As for this part:

As you can see, fascism doesn’t necessarily mean you want to exterminate the Jews.

I doubt very much MM didn't know that. I figured perhaps with the above, at least you can come to a meeting of the minds on a definition and duke it out from there.

 

[musicman]

Thanks very much, Kathianne. I'd say that even the "runaround" definition damns Harmageddon's argument, and points out - in bold relief - his lack of understanding of the American Ideal.