Without tariffs can the U.S afford to permanently help Ukraine, protect Taiwan?

[shockedcanadian]

One almost has to believe that China is so entrenched in NY and Cali that ANY ruling in these jurisdictions will ensure America does not raise new revenue sources needed to avoid insolvency. Putin would also be advised by Xi to avoid peace since the U.S judicial.will kneecap Trunps America First agend.at every turn, basically ensuring far-left Dems are operating with more power than the voting public wants. Ultimately Europe must now solely fund Ukraine since the U.S cannot, even a tax increase wouldn't address this shortfall. Taiwan would have to face Xhina with less U.S support (much to Chinas excitement). Considering how much debt the U.S has, tariffs is almost certainly going to be necessary for a decade. Even Musk has to understand this as much as he wants to have his cake and eat it too with his China manufacturing. DOGE must be passed by your Senate, if not, what was the point?

 

[Mac1958]

"Without tariffs"? It's not all-or-nothing.

The problem here is Trump has turned tariffs into a massive fucking mess, going so over-the-top that it has snarled global business planning, damaged supply chains, destroyed critical global alliances and relationships, created severe instability for many American businesses, endangered the dollar as the Reserve Currency, and put American Treasuries -- the single most important security on the planet -- at severe risk.

It is not "Trump's stupid fucking tariffs" or "NO tariffs".

It's not about WHAT he's trying to accomplish. It's about THE WAY he's trying to accomplish it. AS USUAL.

Fer fuck's sake. Why the fuck this needs to be so goddamn difficult to understand is a mystery. Or maybe not.

 

[shockedcanadian]

"Without tariffs"? It's not all-or-nothing.

The problem here is Trump has turned tariffs into a massive fucking mess by going so over-the-top that it has snarled global business planning, damaged supply chains, destroyed critical global alliances and relationships, created severe instability for many American businesses, endangered the dollar as the Reserve Currency, and put American Treasuries -- the single most important security on the planet -- at severe risk.

It is not "Trump's stupid fucking tariffs" or "NO tariffs".

It's not about WHAT he's trying to accomplish. It's about THE WAY he's trying to accomplish it. AS USUAL.

Fer fuck's sake. Why the fuck this needs to be so goddamn difficult to understand is a mystery. Or maybe not.

Look, you cannot balance your budget because you have too many obligations. Unless you expect all of your benefits and safety nets to disappear, you NEED tariffs to increase revenue. $16B a month helps significantly. You will continue to dig a.debt hole.which is what China and the global socialists want, in fact they need this economic collapse and they want to force digital currency Im sure. Do you think an Elizabeth Warren/Bernie Sanders influenced government would DECREASE spending? This GOP is as good as it gets and Russia/China/N Korea/Iran are banking on your courts to stop Trump from winning. They need their well placed assets in Cali and NY to influence and sink the rest of your nation, whether some of these assets are aware or unwitting.

 

[Mac1958]

Look, you cannot balance your budget because you have too many obligations. Unless you expect all of your benefits and safety nets to disappear, you NEED tariffs to increase. $16B a month helps significantly. You will continue to dig a.debt hole.which is what China and the global socialists want, in fact they need thid economic collapse and they want to force digital currency Im sure. Do you think an Elizabeth Warren/Bernie Sanders influenced government would DECREASE spending? This GOP is as good as it gets and Russia/China/N Korea/Iran are banking on your courts to stop Trunp from winning. They need their well placed assets in Cali and NY to influence and sink the rest of your nation, whether some of these assets are aware or unwitting.

You're arguing for tariffs again.

Obviously you didn't read what I wrote.

Good lord.

 

[shockedcanadian]

You're arguing for tariffs again.

Obviously you didn't read what I wrote.

Good lord.

The tariffs are currently used to pressure trade deals, they will decrease in exchange for fairer market access. You will need a standard tariff rate for each nation but it will be less than is currently.applied (well, after the 90 day pause ends). Without tariffs you will need to double taxes, can the average person/conpany survive with less money? You choose. Either Americans and business pay for the debt or foreign nations who have often been two-faced pays.

 

[the watcher]

Without tariffs can the U.S afford to permanently help Ukraine, protect Taiwan?​

Somewhere along the line we must have moved along from the Why should we have to "help" and "protect" Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel at all costs to ourselves? Who exactly made that decision and is this now written in stone? How do we find ourselves in these self-destructive postures?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Without tariffs can the U.S afford to permanently help Ukraine, protect Taiwan?​

Somewhere along the line we must have moved along from the Why should we have to "help" and "protect" Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel at all costs to ourselves? Who exactly made that decision and is this now written in stone? How do we find ourselves in these self-destructive postures?

The Second World War was a great triumph for freedom but it also lead to decisions in the U.S that shifted its focus on the world stage. You went from being the worlds most profound place of liberty and economic dominance, decentralized by states to being more closely aligned to other nations that were centrally run. Worse today, dependent on Communists. Germanies advances, followed by Communist Russia, put the fear into the West that it didn't have pre WWII. By osmosis, these centrally run influences bled into the U.S and your strong state-driven system became something different. Devolving into a more centralized, national system with far more debt and reliance on government than prior. This of course drove some government inventions, but there is a cost. You are now tasked with defending this global system and are heavily in debt for this honour . Life is better than species suicide via war and I for one recognize just how important Americas role in global peace has been. It's only fair for tariffs to level the playing field and reimburse America for its sacrifices.

 

[the watcher]

I can't believe that's the only way forward, brute power. We may not always be on the end that is applying force.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I can't believe that's the only way forward, brute power. We may not always be on the end that is applying force.

You had better be. China and their Axis will NOT be as kind as America has been. The sooner Americans, Wall Street and your courts understand what is truly at stake the better. They should listen more to Vance and Rubio when they speak in public.

There is a reason China placed Rubio on a ban list years ago, he has them figured out. He is a man who gets it, one of the few politicians in the U.S I'd enjoy breaking bread with I suspect. Trump may yet need to give a speech to Americans advising them of the REAL threat to America, a la Bidens "Extreme MAGA" speech during his term. If and when he does (I suspect it will come to that), I hope Americans and the world listen...

I don't have hate in my heart for the CCP as they havent directly harmed.me, they have a goal though and it isn't to be a nice, friendly regional power. The West has allowed this to happen to ourselves, we must be the ones to reverse this.

 

[the watcher]

The West has.allowed this to happen to ourselves.

I think the same is true for China, Russia, and the EU; they have been hijacked by a corrupt and evil apparatus. It's hard to believe that the working man in the street wants endless war and suffering.

 

[White 6]

Look, you cannot balance your budget because you have too many obligations. Unless you expect all of your benefits and safety nets to disappear, you NEED tariffs to increase revenue. $16B a month helps significantly. You will continue to dig a.debt hole.which is what China and the global socialists want, in fact they need this economic collapse and they want to force digital currency Im sure. Do you think an Elizabeth Warren/Bernie Sanders influenced government would DECREASE spending? This GOP is as good as it gets and Russia/China/N Korea/Iran are banking on your courts to stop Trump from winning. They need their well placed assets in Cali and NY to influence and sink the rest of your nation, whether some of these assets are aware or unwitting.

I simply do not want to pay the tariffs. The tariffs are nothing but a new national tax, paid by US citizens on goods and services. If both houses of congress can come together, doing their job as they were supposed to, not yielding to the super powerfuls of our society, (in order to continue to feather their nests, providing their own job security in elected office), logical, equitable taxation could be achieved. Otherwise, it is the rule of whim, by the mad king, for the benefit of the super wealthy. I would almost take up day trading on the TACO market, as Don TACO continually (and somewhat predictably) rocks markets, supply chains, production planning internationally, only to stabilize when he chickens, backs down and post pones actions. There is no rhyme and reason, to his disruptive games of chicken, but there is some predictability, for trading purposes.

 

[the watcher]

I think that the tariffs are like our foreign (and domestic) policy, the result of a failed and compromised government.

 

[JoeB131]

One almost has to believe that China is so entrenched in NY and Cali that ANY ruling in these jurisdictions will ensure America does not raise new revenue sources needed to avoid insolvency. Putin would also be advised by Xi to avoid peace since the U.S judicial.will kneecap Trunps America First agend.at every turn, basically ensuring far-left Dems are operating with more power than the voting public wants. Ultimately Europe must now solely fund Ukraine since the U.S cannot, even a tax increase wouldn't address this shortfall. Taiwan would have to face Xhina with less U.S support (much to Chinas excitement). Considering how much debt the U.S has, tariffs is almost certainly going to be necessary for a decade. Even Musk has to understand this as much as he wants to have his cake and eat it too with his China manufacturing. DOGE must be passed by your Senate, if not, what was the point?

Oh, Snidley, there isn't a Chinese hiding under your bed.

Putin can avoid peace talks because he's winning, and the spigot of money to Ukraine is about to be turned off.

China won't invade Taiwan unless they do something really stupid like declare independence, then they'd have no choice, really.

Tariffs are going to wreck the US Economy, assuming the Crypto-currency scam doesn't do it first.

 

[Dragonlady]

"Without tariffs"? It's not all-or-nothing.

The problem here is Trump has turned tariffs into a massive fucking mess, going so over-the-top that it has snarled global business planning, damaged supply chains, destroyed critical global alliances and relationships, created severe instability for many American businesses, endangered the dollar as the Reserve Currency, and put American Treasuries -- the single most important security on the planet -- at severe risk.

It is not "Trump's stupid fucking tariffs" or "NO tariffs".

It's not about WHAT he's trying to accomplish. It's about THE WAY he's trying to accomplish it. AS USUAL.

Fer fuck's sake. Why the fuck this needs to be so goddamn difficult to understand is a mystery. Or maybe not.

You'd have to have SOME critical thinking skills to understand this and MAGA has NONE.

They believe Trump is rich because he's smart and he knows what he's doing.

 

[JoeB131]

I think that the tariffs are like our foreign (and domestic) policy, the result of a failed and compromised government.

Well, that's because you are stupid and you let Hate Radio do your thinking for you.

Tariffs are an economic disaster, and will cause a recession, if we aren't in one already.

 

[rightwinger]

Trumps tariffs are paid by the American consumer

We have a trillion dollar military budget. More than enough to handle Russia or China

 

[Mac1958]

You'd have to have SOME critical thinking skills to understand this and MAGA has NONE.

They believe Trump is rich because he's smart and he knows what he's doing.

They want so desperately to believe him that they ignore this CONSTANT STREAM of red flags and damage caused.

I will always be fascinated by the psychology/sociology of this. They want to finally be "winners" and they've decided that he is a "winner". And they refuse to care about, or honestly examine, how he got there.

Optimizing tariffs is always a good idea. But you don't do it like Yosemite Sam. We're dealing with INTELLIGENT ADULTS here.

 

[shockedcanadian]

They want so desperately to believe him that they ignore this CONSTANT STREAM of red flags and damage caused.

I will always be fascinated by the psychology/sociology of this. They want to finally be "winners" and they've decided that he is a "winner". And they refuse to care about, or honestly examine, how he got there.

Optimizing tariffs is always a good idea. But you don't do it like Yosemite Sam. We're dealing with INTELLIGENT ADULTS here.

You simplify a situation that you clearly have not been curious enough to study and understand.

You are at war and you are going to become insolvent. You can't cut enough and you cannot tax your citizens enough. A tariff is a consumption tax on importers, that's it. You don't have to buy items Made in China. There is a reason the EU and China apply tariffs, it is to protect their workers and industries!

Let me give you an example of how naive Americans are, though it may not appear related I assure you it is as it establishes a pattern: do you trust the OPP or RCMP? How about Canadian employment practices if you open up an office in Canada?

Most American cops blindly would trust without a shred of knowledge of how these jurisdictions operate.

Naive, indeed.

 

[JohnDB]

Taiwan is a complicated issue.

There are literally Trillions of dollars worth of global investment money put into the place. (They used to make cheap plastic schlock)
With the computer and electronics growth the place makes 80% of the global supply of computer chips. Truly it is a place with people who are trained from childhood to make chips. (Dedicated and educated workforce)

But if CCP really wants Taiwan they will likely succeed in getting it.
Question is:"Will we be able to get our money out before that happens?"

CCP wants Taiwan's banks and cash. (They have a credit crisis with junk bonds) They also want to have a monopoly on a product in strong demand. The people? They could care less.

But it's American companies (and dollars) that built Taiwan. They once were truly starving in the 60's and 70's.

And CCP taking control is akin to theft. But I don't think we can stop them either.

 

[JoeB131]

You had better be. China and their Axis will NOT be as kind as America has been. The sooner Americans, Wall Street and your courts understand what is truly at stake the better. They should listen more to Vance and Rubio when they speak in public.

There is a reason China placed Rubio on a ban list years ago, he has them figured out. He is a man who gets it, one of the few politicians in the U.S I'd enjoy breaking bread with I suspect. Trump may yet need to give a speech to Americans advising them of the REAL threat to America, a la Bidens "Extreme MAGA" speech during his term. If and when he does (I suspect it will come to that), I hope Americans and the world listen...

I don't have hate in my heart for the CCP as they havent directly harmed.me, they have a goal though and it isn't to be a nice, friendly regional power. The West has allowed this to happen to ourselves, we must be the ones to reverse this.

Rubio is a twat who doesn't understand why his fellow Cubans threw his parents out on their asses.

If China has expanded its influence, it's by being smarter than we are.

They invested in education and infrastructure; we gave tax breaks to billionaires.

They invested time in building goodwill through foreign aid and the Belt and Road Initiative. We cut aid and dropped bombs on anyone who looked at us funny.

Here's an interesting statistic. How many times has the US used its UN veto to thwart the will of the international community?

87 times.

How many times has China done it? 19. And some of those were by Taiwan when the US pretended that they were the legitimate government of China.

Instead of fearing China, we should look at what they are doing right and maybe try some of those things. Some won't work, our cultures are too different. But doesn't hurt to take a look.