With 94 million Americans Out of the Work Force, Why Do We Have 25 Million Foreign Guest Workers?

[EverCurious]

Well it's no wonder we're so low if we've got 55% of our scientists being D's! They can't even plot legit readings and findings on a chart without ******* it up.

#GetDFuckOutOfUSScience

 

[kiwiman127]

With 94 million Americans Out of the Work Force, Why Do We Have 25 Million Foreign Guest Workers?


It doesn't add up does it?
Maybe you'll figure out why.

Sure it adds up.

The 94 million Americans figure is bogus in the context he's trying to use. His whole premise is then bunk as there's no correlation. The only real question is why employers are seeking foreign workers.

Of course the 94 million out worker numbers are bogus. The often repeated talking point of some hyper-partisan resource.
The fact is wages have started to increase, which they do when unemployment numbers drop nd companies have to compete with each other for employees.
Wages Rise as U.S. Unemployment Rate Falls Below 5%
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/b...ployment-january-fed-interest-rates.html?_r=0
Geez, How'd that happen, with all the states raising the minimum wage, unemployment supposed to boom according the same sources that are claiming 94 million are unemployed? Of course that claim was not based on facts, as factual history shows that unemployment has never spiked because of raising the minimum wage. I'll stop, I am rambling.

 

[MisterBeale]

I see what you were talking about Jim. I agree, if companies domicile here, they can hire American workers first before the H1-B's.

My point about restructuring our ed. system was that, often in the MSM propaganda, we will here the myth repeated ad nauseam that there aren't enough STEM workers, so they need to pass out visas like they are candy. That's why we see so many engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. from Asia and the far east.

Here is an interesting article. Rdeanie can sit and spin.

The STEM Crisis Is a Myth
Forget the dire predictions of a looming shortfall of scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians
The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum

 

[Unkotare]

I see what you were talking about Jim. I agree, if companies domicile here, they can hire American workers first before the H1-B's.

My point about restructuring our ed. system was that, often in the MSM propaganda, we will here the myth repeated ad nauseam that there aren't enough STEM workers, so they need to pass out visas like they are candy. That's why we see so many engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. from Asia and the far east.

Here is an interesting article. Rdeanie can sit and spin.

The STEM Crisis Is a Myth
Forget the dire predictions of a looming shortfall of scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians
The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum

You realize you don't graduate with a degree that just says STEM on it, and that you are then a perfect match for the 277,000 jobs simply called STEM Job that companies are looking to fill, right?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

With our schools so awful and terrible, why are Americans leading in science and technology?

A Pew Research Center Poll from July 2009 showed that only around 6percent of U.S. scientists are Republicans; 55 percent are Democrats, 32 percent are independent, and the rest "don't know" their affiliation. This immense imbalance has political consequences.Dec 8, 2010

Nope.

Leave it to rdeanie to post some of the stupidest shit on USMB.

We are number 39, right after Poland and Chile. Even the terrorists in Turkey, and drug lords in Mexico and Columbia know more math and science than we do.

Math and Science have nothing to do with politics. Unless you pay them. Then the data will tell you whatever you want it to.

These are the 10 smartest countries in the world when it comes to science

That chart shows the number of people graduating NOT who leads in the field.

 

[rdean]

Hilarious. Especially the number of countries who are listed under smartest country in the world who don't even have a single Nobel Prize. The US, who the right wingers love to put down, has over three hundred and fifty. By far the most in the world.

But that's not the funniest part. Republicans hold up countries as shining examples of learning who have a common core type system of learning. Minimum learning requirements. But Republicans hate common core. I bet it's the kids of Republicans who drag down the nation's average. They hate scientists but insist the majority of scientists are Republican. They hate schooling yet insist they know the most about what is supposed to be taught. The worst thing you can do it turn over anything for the Republicans to manage. We've seen Flint. We've seen the economy under Bush and the GOP. We've seen how they managed our foreign policy. They seem to want to manage America back to the stone age.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The actual numbers of non-working adults that could be working with the above numbers is 14 to 19 million, not 94 million.

Two interlinked issues are the problem: too many skilled foreign workers filling jobs that could be filled by Americans who are yet unwilling to retrain.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

As explained before, Gatto is a hack who couldn't handle being a real teacher and decided to market himself and sell out the rest of the educators who were down in the trenches while he did book tours and speaking engagements.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

With our schools so awful and terrible, why are Americans leading in science and technology?

A Pew Research Center Poll from July 2009 showed that only around 6percent of U.S. scientists are Republicans; 55 percent are Democrats, 32 percent are independent, and the rest "don't know" their affiliation. This immense imbalance has political consequences.Dec 8, 2010

Nope.

Leave it to rdeanie to post some of the stupidest shit on USMB.

We are number 39, right after Poland and Chile. Even the terrorists in Turkey, and drug lords in Mexico and Columbia know more math and science than we do.

Math and Science have nothing to do with politics. Unless you pay them. Then the data will tell you whatever you want it to.

These are the 10 smartest countries in the world when it comes to science

I grade your reading and interpretation of that graph as an F-. It doesn't say what you think it does.

 

[MisterBeale]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

With our schools so awful and terrible, why are Americans leading in science and technology?

A Pew Research Center Poll from July 2009 showed that only around 6percent of U.S. scientists are Republicans; 55 percent are Democrats, 32 percent are independent, and the rest "don't know" their affiliation. This immense imbalance has political consequences.Dec 8, 2010

Nope.

Leave it to rdeanie to post some of the stupidest shit on USMB.

We are number 39, right after Poland and Chile. Even the terrorists in Turkey, and drug lords in Mexico and Columbia know more math and science than we do.

Math and Science have nothing to do with politics. Unless you pay them. Then the data will tell you whatever you want it to.

These are the 10 smartest countries in the world when it comes to science

That chart shows the number of people graduating NOT who leads in the field.

I'd say that is a metric of who is leading. What would you say is a metric of who is leading?

Sure, these foreign born folks come here to start tech related companies because we have (had) the freest economic system on Earth, but that doesn't necessarily mean the folks that start them are American born or the product of American leadership in STEM.

Obviously if you had bothered to read the thread from the beginning you would have seen this is territory that had already been covered.

Currently, more than 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or the children of immigrants, according to a study by The Partnership for a New American Economy, a group of governors and business leaders launched by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Australian media heavyweight Rupert Murdoch.

Do try to keep up there squirt.

 

[MisterBeale]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

With our schools so awful and terrible, why are Americans leading in science and technology?

A Pew Research Center Poll from July 2009 showed that only around 6percent of U.S. scientists are Republicans; 55 percent are Democrats, 32 percent are independent, and the rest "don't know" their affiliation. This immense imbalance has political consequences.Dec 8, 2010

Nope.

Leave it to rdeanie to post some of the stupidest shit on USMB.

We are number 39, right after Poland and Chile. Even the terrorists in Turkey, and drug lords in Mexico and Columbia know more math and science than we do.

Math and Science have nothing to do with politics. Unless you pay them. Then the data will tell you whatever you want it to.

These are the 10 smartest countries in the world when it comes to science

I grade your reading and interpretation of that graph as an F-. It doesn't say what you think it does.

An F MINUS?

You call yourself a professional? How does one fail worse than failing? I've never heard any professional teacher use such a term. It is an insult to the profession. I think you were fired and didn't make the grade.



Of course it says what I think it does.


The methods employed to train math and science in the US are worse than other nations. Our schooling is flat out inferior, it's government indoctrination, consumer brainwashing. It is the practice of making helpless automatons.

Do we still have more STEM graduates in absolute numbers? Of course. However our population is much larger.

If Nation A) has 100 citizens and 10 Nobel prize winners, and Nation B) has 10000 citizens and 15 Nobel prize winners, it doesn't mean Nation B is a leader in math and science. I am sorry if you are too obtuse to understand this concept.

In a few more decades, if the Russia Federation were ever to liberalize it's economy even more than it already has, we are sunk. We are absolutely done for. That's what this chart shows.

Already their deep-well oil drilling technology is thirty years, to forty years more advanced than ours is. Hell, half the West is still in denial of abiotic oil.

Fossil fuel. What a crock.

 

[MisterBeale]

I see what you were talking about Jim. I agree, if companies domicile here, they can hire American workers first before the H1-B's.

My point about restructuring our ed. system was that, often in the MSM propaganda, we will here the myth repeated ad nauseam that there aren't enough STEM workers, so they need to pass out visas like they are candy. That's why we see so many engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. from Asia and the far east.

Here is an interesting article. Rdeanie can sit and spin.

The STEM Crisis Is a Myth
Forget the dire predictions of a looming shortfall of scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians
The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum

You realize you don't graduate with a degree that just says STEM on it, and that you are then a perfect match for the 277,000 jobs simply called STEM Job that companies are looking to fill, right?

Well of course.

Did you think I just ran through and looked for images, or rather, maybe, read the article too?


I swear, if I don't read the article, and tease out the important parts of it for you guys, you won't take into consideration what is relevant, and what you need to know. Guess someone's got to do the heavy lifting.

"To parse the simultaneous claims of both a shortage and a surplus of STEM workers, we’ll need to delve into the data behind the debate, how it got going more than a half century ago, and the societal, economic, and nationalistic biases that have perpetuated it. And what that dissection reveals is that there is indeed a STEM crisis—just not the one everyone’s been talking about. The real STEM crisis is one of literacy: the fact that today’s students are not receiving a solid grounding in science, math, and engineering."

<snip>

The nature of STEM work has also changed dramatically in the past several decades. In engineering, for instance, your job is no longer linked to a company but to a funded project. Long-term employment with a single company has been replaced by a series of de facto temporary positions that can quickly end when a project ends or the market shifts. To be sure, engineers in the 1950s were sometimes laid off during recessions, but they expected to be hired back when the economy picked up. That rarely happens today. And unlike in decades past, employers seldom offer generous education and training benefits to engineers to keep them current, so out-of-work engineers find they quickly become technologically obsolete.


Any of these factors can affect both short-term and longer-term demand for STEM workers, as well as for the particular skills those workers will need. The agencies that track science and engineering employment know this to be true. Buried in Chapter 3 of a 2012 NSF workforce study, for instance, you’ll find this caveat: “Projections of employment growth are plagued by uncertain assumptions and are notoriously difficult to make.”


So is there a shortfall of STEM workers or isn’t there?


The Georgetown study estimates that nearly two-thirds of the STEM job openings in the United States, or about 180 000 jobs per year, will require bachelor’s degrees. Now, if you apply the Commerce Department’s definition of STEM to the NSF’s annual count of science and engineering bachelor’s degrees, that means about 252 000 STEM graduates emerged in 2009. So even if all the STEM openings were entry-level positions and even if only new STEM bachelor’s holders could compete for them, that still leaves 70 000 graduates unable to get a job in their chosen field.


Of course, the pool of U.S. STEM workers is much bigger than that: It includes new STEM master’s and Ph.D. graduates (in 2009, around 80 000 and 25 000, respectively), STEM associate degree graduates (about 40 000), H-1B visa holders (more than 50 000), other immigrants and visa holders with STEM degrees, technical certificate holders, and non-STEM degree recipients looking to find STEM-related work. And then there’s the vast number of STEM degree holders who graduated in previous years or decades.


Even in the computer and IT industry, the sector that employs the most STEM workers and is expected to grow the most over the next 5 to 10 years, not everyone who wants a job can find one. A recent study by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI), a liberal-leaning think tank in Washington, D.C., found that more than a third of recent computer science graduates aren’t working in their chosen major; of that group, almost a third say the reason is that there are no jobs available.

<snip>

Clearly, powerful forces must be at work to perpetuate the cycle. One is obvious: the bottom line. Companies would rather not pay STEM professionals high salaries with lavish benefits, offer them training on the job, or guarantee them decades of stable employment. So having an oversupply of workers, whether domestically educated or imported, is to their benefit. It gives employers a larger pool from which they can pick the “best and the brightest,” and it helps keep wages in check. No less an authority than Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, said as much when in 2007 he advocated boosting the number of skilled immigrants entering the United States so as to “suppress” the wages of their U.S. counterparts, which he considered too high.


There is a collusion between government and industry to make sure they can find a cheap immigrant to do something that Jim would expect more money for. That's how fascism works. Our nation has been sold out to a bunch of globalists, and it doesn't matter which party they are in. Makes no difference at all.

Pukes from both parties are mystified how Trump got the nomination. Average folks are fed up. They don't know if Trump will solve anything, but if he burns the whole place down, it certainly doesn't seem like it would be a whole lot worse than the way things stand right now.

 

[MisterBeale]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

With our schools so awful and terrible, why are Americans leading in science and technology?

A Pew Research Center Poll from July 2009 showed that only around 6percent of U.S. scientists are Republicans; 55 percent are Democrats, 32 percent are independent, and the rest "don't know" their affiliation. This immense imbalance has political consequences.Dec 8, 2010

Nope.

Leave it to rdeanie to post some of the stupidest shit on USMB.

We are number 39, right after Poland and Chile. Even the terrorists in Turkey, and drug lords in Mexico and Columbia know more math and science than we do.

Math and Science have nothing to do with politics. Unless you pay them. Then the data will tell you whatever you want it to.

These are the 10 smartest countries in the world when it comes to science

That chart shows the number of people graduating NOT who leads in the field.

What would YOU use as a metric of who leads in Science and Tech?

 

[Asclepias]

We have over 94 million Americans out of the work force.
Labor Force Participation Rate Dropped to 62.8% In April: 94,044,000 Out

The number of Americans not in the labor force last month totaled 94,044,000, 562,000 more than in March -- and the labor force participation rate dropped to 62.8 percent (near a 38-year low), following four straight months of slight improvement.

When President Obama took office in Janaury 2009, the labor force partipation rate was 65.7 percent, after hovering in the 66-67 percent range for much of the George W. Bush presidency.

The recession inherited by the Obama administration officially ended in June 2009, but the labor force participation rate continued to drop during Obama's two terms, hitting 62.4 percent in September 2015, its lowest point in 38 years.

While 25 million foreign born workers are here on guest worker visas, and this includes the illegal black market labor.
Foreign-Born Employment in U.S. Dips Slightly from Record, Still At 25,460,000 - Breitbart
The number of foreign-born people employed in the United States dipped slightly last month compared to the record high set in March, but remained above 25 million mark, according to data released Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The BLS reports that 25,460,000 foreign-born people had a job in the U.S. during the month of April, a decrease of 281,000 compared to the month of March when a record 25,741,000 foreign-born people were employed in the U.S.

The BLS does not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants, defining the foreign-born as:

Those residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. That is, they were born outside the United States or one of its outlying areas such as Puerto Rico or Guam, to parents neither of whom was a U.S. citizen. The native born are persons who were born in the United States or one of its outlying areas such as Puerto Rico or Guam or who were born abroad of at least one parent who was a U.S. citizen.

And in this situation, we have declining job growth.
U.S. jobs growth slows down in April
Companies scaled back hiring in April, adding just 160,000 new jobs, in a sign the U.S. economy still hasn’t recovered from an early-year chill.

The April jobs report was well below Wall Street’s expectations. Economists polled by MarketWatch had forecast a 203,000 increase in nonfarm jobs.

The unemployment rate, meanwhile, was flat at 5%. More people dropped out of the labor force and the so-called participation rate fell for the first time in seven months. That could mean people find it a bit harder to get a job.

So WHY ARE WE BRINGING IN MORE GUEST WORKERS WHEN AMERICANS CANT GET TRAINED AND HIRED FOR THESE JOBS INSTEAD?

BECAUSE CORPORATIONS AVE BOUGHT OUR GOVERNMENT, IN MANY CASES USING MONEY WE GAVE TO BIG BANKS IN$5 TRILLION IN BANK HANDOUTS.

We gave $5 trillion to the banks, huge bailouts to various corporations and debt simply wiped off the books, and yet where are the bailouts for regular Middle Class Americans? We are paying these predatory mortgages still today, while the predators are still snorting coke and buying whores on Wall Street with that tax payer money that was then doled to them in huge million dollar bonuses. And it is wrong to raise their taxes, why? So they drug dealers and whores can stay in ridiculous wealth?

Where are the protesting Libertarian Traitors who throw a snit fit every time anyone proposes helping Americans? They love give a-ways to corporate America, because they are wannabe corporate pirates who hope one day to feast on the carcasses of their fellow Americans also, just like they see corporations doing today.

This has to end, folks. And if neocons like 'Paul Ryan the Sellout' dont like it, then throw the bastards out.

Probably because a lot of those 94 million are not capable of doing the job that the foreign workers are doing.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“With 94 million Americans Out of the Work Force…”

With a majority of conservative propagating so many lies, such as the lie quoted above, it’s a wonder anyone believes them.

“[Conservative B]loggers and pundits have said that 90 million Americans either aren’t working or aren’t looking for work. That’s a real number, but it includes high schoolers, college students and retirement-age Americans, leaving perhaps 20 million a better approximation. We rate the claim Mostly False.”

Are 90 million Americans not working or not looking for work?

 

[MisterBeale]

Go ahead and hand a second grade class the book, "The Wizard of Oz" and see how many can read it.


Better yet, hand fifth grade class the book, "The Last of the Mohicans" and see how many of them can tackle it.


Both of those books was written for those age groups respectively. Today's kids can't hack those books.

In second grade they are now reading "Cat in the Hat," and "Curious George," and that's just the kids that are keeping up.

Getting fifth graders to read Harry Potter is easy, it's a snap. The vocabulary and sentence structure is sophomoric compared to "The Last of the Mohicans". I doubt the same class could handle such a book in this day and age.

I seriously doubt you have ever even read any of Gatto's work because it is a threat to your very world view.

Where did you get your expertise on reading levels?

The Lexile reading level for Last of the Mohicans is 1350 which is 11th to 12th grade.

The Last of the Mohicans - Lexile® Find a Book | The Lexile® Framework for Reading

Why don't you just stick to whatever you are good at doing and leave education to the professionals?

Naturally "professionals," will claim that, they need to justify their existence, don't they?


"Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it.

By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own?

"By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago."
Could They Really Have Done It On Purpose?, by Vin Suprynowicz

As explained before, Gatto is a hack who couldn't handle being a real teacher and decided to market himself and sell out the rest of the educators who were down in the trenches while he did book tours and speaking engagements.

Yup, we already went over this.

You never responded when I told you he has won more awards for teaching then you'll ever dream of.

Since he knows that the system is broken, and he knows what is wrong, he felt he could do more good by helping to change it rather than stay teaching in a broken system.


Oh, what, are you saying that a system where we continually spend more and more money on and get declining results is a success? Seriously?

The reason you have a problem with Gatto is for pointing out the Emperor has no clothes.


Real reform would require teachers to think, challenge themselves and their students, and that would be difficult. It would require risks and creativity, and teachers would have to earn what they are paid. After all, they are themselves dead broken products of the same wrecked and wretched system that produced them.

What would they do with the kids that have already been damaged beyond repair by the broken system that are half way through with them? They whole thing is a dismal mess. . .

And don't think Gatto hasn't addressed your POV. Oh, assure you, he has. I'm well aware of what you are getting at.

However, rather than have all these disadvantages be seen as weaknesses, the caring and intelligent teacher can help students see most of this trauma as a source of individuality and strength, rather than trying to grind out conformity as is the status quo.

 

[MisterBeale]

I see what you were talking about Jim. I agree, if companies domicile here, they can hire American workers first before the H1-B's.

My point about restructuring our ed. system was that, often in the MSM propaganda, we will here the myth repeated ad nauseam that there aren't enough STEM workers, so they need to pass out visas like they are candy. That's why we see so many engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. from Asia and the far east.

Here is an interesting article. Rdeanie can sit and spin.

The STEM Crisis Is a Myth
Forget the dire predictions of a looming shortfall of scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians
The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum

You realize you don't graduate with a degree that just says STEM on it, and that you are then a perfect match for the 277,000 jobs simply called STEM Job that companies are looking to fill, right?

Well of course.

Did you think I just ran through and looked for images, or rather, maybe, read the article too?


I swear, if I don't read the article, and tease out the important parts of it for you guys, you won't take into consideration what is relevant, and what you need to know. Guess someone's got to do the heavy lifting.

"To parse the simultaneous claims of both a shortage and a surplus of STEM workers, we’ll need to delve into the data behind the debate, how it got going more than a half century ago, and the societal, economic, and nationalistic biases that have perpetuated it. And what that dissection reveals is that there is indeed a STEM crisis—just not the one everyone’s been talking about. The real STEM crisis is one of literacy: the fact that today’s students are not receiving a solid grounding in science, math, and engineering."

<snip>

The nature of STEM work has also changed dramatically in the past several decades. In engineering, for instance, your job is no longer linked to a company but to a funded project. Long-term employment with a single company has been replaced by a series of de facto temporary positions that can quickly end when a project ends or the market shifts. To be sure, engineers in the 1950s were sometimes laid off during recessions, but they expected to be hired back when the economy picked up. That rarely happens today. And unlike in decades past, employers seldom offer generous education and training benefits to engineers to keep them current, so out-of-work engineers find they quickly become technologically obsolete.


Any of these factors can affect both short-term and longer-term demand for STEM workers, as well as for the particular skills those workers will need. The agencies that track science and engineering employment know this to be true. Buried in Chapter 3 of a 2012 NSF workforce study, for instance, you’ll find this caveat: “Projections of employment growth are plagued by uncertain assumptions and are notoriously difficult to make.”


So is there a shortfall of STEM workers or isn’t there?


The Georgetown study estimates that nearly two-thirds of the STEM job openings in the United States, or about 180 000 jobs per year, will require bachelor’s degrees. Now, if you apply the Commerce Department’s definition of STEM to the NSF’s annual count of science and engineering bachelor’s degrees, that means about 252 000 STEM graduates emerged in 2009. So even if all the STEM openings were entry-level positions and even if only new STEM bachelor’s holders could compete for them, that still leaves 70 000 graduates unable to get a job in their chosen field.


Of course, the pool of U.S. STEM workers is much bigger than that: It includes new STEM master’s and Ph.D. graduates (in 2009, around 80 000 and 25 000, respectively), STEM associate degree graduates (about 40 000), H-1B visa holders (more than 50 000), other immigrants and visa holders with STEM degrees, technical certificate holders, and non-STEM degree recipients looking to find STEM-related work. And then there’s the vast number of STEM degree holders who graduated in previous years or decades.


Even in the computer and IT industry, the sector that employs the most STEM workers and is expected to grow the most over the next 5 to 10 years, not everyone who wants a job can find one. A recent study by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI), a liberal-leaning think tank in Washington, D.C., found that more than a third of recent computer science graduates aren’t working in their chosen major; of that group, almost a third say the reason is that there are no jobs available.

<snip>

Clearly, powerful forces must be at work to perpetuate the cycle. One is obvious: the bottom line. Companies would rather not pay STEM professionals high salaries with lavish benefits, offer them training on the job, or guarantee them decades of stable employment. So having an oversupply of workers, whether domestically educated or imported, is to their benefit. It gives employers a larger pool from which they can pick the “best and the brightest,” and it helps keep wages in check. No less an authority than Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, said as much when in 2007 he advocated boosting the number of skilled immigrants entering the United States so as to “suppress” the wages of their U.S. counterparts, which he considered too high.


There is a collusion between government and industry to make sure they can find a cheap immigrant to do something that Jim would expect more money for. That's how fascism works. Our nation has been sold out to a bunch of globalists, and it doesn't matter which party they are in. Makes no difference at all.

Pukes from both parties are mystified how Trump got the nomination. Average folks are fed up. They don't know if Trump will solve anything, but if he burns the whole place down, it certainly doesn't seem like it would be a whole lot worse than the way things stand right now.

So, we've established that all you know about is plagiarism.

Obviously you didn't read or scan the article. I didn't plagiarize anything. It was a VERY LONG article. I only quoted relevant parts in a different font. Wow, you really have an aversion to reading, sorry about your learning disability. Or is it a language thing?



Your contention is that there is no perfect match between job hunters and employers. Why should I tell you that isn't so when I can just quote the article and you can see for yourself it isn't the case? I realize not all STEM degrees are interchangeable, but at the numbers we are talking about, the difference is meaningless.

I used to think you had some modicum of intelligence. Are you drinking and taking drugs tonight, purposely being obtuse, or just a crank?

The fact is, industry, the central bank, and the globalists have purposely kept the market saturated with more qualified people in every STEM sector of the economy so that labor wages will be depressed.

Added to that, the pace of change is so quick, these professions need to be constantly retrained. It doesn't matter if you are an . . . .

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Business and industry are cheap and profit oriented. They would prefer to externalize that cost onto the employee rather than pick up the tab. If there is a fierce competition for jobs, the potential job seekers are more willing to foot the bill for keeping their training current. If you can't understand what is posted and need help with it, ask, don't be an ass.

 

[Unkotare]

.....


Real reform would require teachers to think, challenge themselves and their students, and that would be difficult. It would require risks and creativity, and teachers would have to earn what they are paid. .....

And you think teachers don't do all that already?

 

[Asclepias]

.....


Real reform would require teachers to think, challenge themselves and their students, and that would be difficult. It would require risks and creativity, and teachers would have to earn what they are paid. .....

And you think teachers don't do all that already?

Not all or even the majority of them.

 

[Unkotare]

....

The fact is, industry, the central bank, and the globalists have purposely kept the market saturated with more qualified people in every STEM sector of the economy so that labor wages will be depressed......

You're looking for the conspiracy forum, fruitcake.