Will we ever have single payer health care in this country?

[JoeB131]

We already have this kind of system in place with our current public/private Medicare/Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system.

Um, Vichy Mac, someone needs to explain to you that the purpose of medicare is not to make the Insurance Industry rich.

But our wingers just don't want to give a goddamn inch, as usual, because they're terrified of "losing" to people they hate. Getting some of what they want ain't good enough.

No, guy, I've had the misfortune of having to fight with an insurance company to get a procedure they'd decided was "elective" even though my doctor said I needed it.

Now, my solution would be to go to Single Payer, and then turn the insurance company executive suites into Organ Donor Farms...

But I'll settle for just single payer.

 

[dblack]

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. It's not just Part C. It's the whole mess.

I used to believe what you're saying here. Most people still do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

 

[Mac1958]

As usual, the zealots on both ends of this issue are behaving similarly, egotistically demanding simplistic purity, directly in the face of reason.

Many countries have already figured out that a strong public foundation keeps overall health care costs down and opens access to all citizens, which is the civilized thing to do.

They have also figured out that allowing for a free market presence allows for more choice, competition and innovation.

We already have this kind of system in place with our current public/private Medicare/Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system.

But our wingers just don't want to give a goddamn inch, as usual, because they're terrified of "losing" to people they hate. Getting some of what they want ain't good enough.

Gawd, I'm still wishing our wingers would find another ******* hobby.
.

Really Mac?
So it is only "wingers" that are in the political rock throwing contest?
Only the Republicans that block, spin, obfuscate,obstruct and generally all around do nothing but throw rocks at the other side?
Democrats never do this?

As I have said repeatedly...Obamacare is a perfect example of the kind of legislation we will get from Washington. Has a great namesake, addresses no problems, in fact makes the problems worse, staggering costs and continues to grease the wheels of corporations and special interest that ride the gold train.
I would like NOTHING better than to have the shackles of HIGH premiums with STAGGERING high deductions removed from me and my wife.
WOULD LOVE IT.
However, I am not convinced a system provided by THE most corrupt, inept, inefficient and all around buffons in Washington is who should be in control of said system.
We need a fix. But that fix requires hurting corporations and special interest for the interests of the citizenry. And, as proved by Obamacare, that is NOT going to happen in our lifetimes.
Because depite abysmal approval ratings, 98% of the same ******* rats are voted in year after year.

I didn't say "right wingers", I said "wingers".

The side is irrelevant in this context, since the behaviors can be so similar.

As I illustrate in the first line of my sig.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Free market.

Ah. "Free". So you're big into "freedom".

Me too!

• I'd like to be free from paying significantly higher fees, co-pays and co-insurances because I'm also paying for those who can't or won't cover themselves.
• I'd like to be free from paying more because people who don't have access to preventive/diagnostic services, allowing their conditions to decay, which costs me more later.
• I'd like to be from sitting in a packed Emergency Room with a suffering loved one because those with no coverage are using it as their family doctor.
• I'd like to be free from seeing my business owner clients struggle to provide health insurance for their employees because they know they'll lose them to larger competitors if they don't.
• I'd like to be free from seeing under-regulated health insurers change their plans mid-stream, leaving their participants high and dry with medical bills they should not have to worry about.

For being so into "freedom", you sure are willing to be controlled.
.

/——/ No. Free market as in the home, auto and life insurance markets. Hope that helps.

Yeah, that's what we've been talking about. Car insurance.

Too funny.
.

/----/ Odd that you Progs used the car insurance analogy to defend Obozocare.

I'm strongly against the ACA.

I've made what I want abundantly clear.
.

 

[Mac1958]

/----/ No one gave me any talking points. I'm old enough to remember when a person could buy health insurance like car insurance - you bought it and you paid for it.

And how has that been working out as the cost of health has increased over 800 percent in the past 50 years?

I'll tell you. More and more Americans have been priced out of the market. They can't pay for insurance they can't afford.

And so all the sloganeering in the world will not stand up to the truth of that chart. Americans are getting plowed under by reality, and since the Republican plan this entire time has been to do NOTHING, then it is just a matter of time before a majority cry out for single payer.

It is the apathy of people like you which will ensure that happens.

You idiots should be asking yourselves why the GOP or Trump have not come up with a replacement for Obamacare after NINE YEARS since its enactment.

You've been ******* hoaxed. Massively hoaxed. By Trump, by McConnell, by Boehner, and by Ryan. And you STILL have not woken up to that fact.

So here comes single payer whether you like it or not, and you are as much to blame as any goddam commie Democrat.

And, once again, you don't address valid point of the argument. Once again, you and others leave out the most important aspects and facts to argue over political points than what actually is the causation of, and therefore the answer to, skyrocketing cost of healthcare insurance.

In the end, it does not matter. What matters is the fact the Republicans and Trump have offered NOTHING to solve the problem.

Meanwhile, the Democrats have been telegraphing for decades their intention to enact socialized medicine.

So it does not matter if the rising costs are caused by Martians. When one party's response to a problem is NOTHING, and the other party's plan is SOMETHING, then the American people will inevitably choose SOMETHING over NOTHING.

All caught up now?

As a result of their conditioning, the Right remains stuck in this binary, all-or-nothing, win or lose mentality, and this topic is a great example.

So if they "lose" and we end up with Single Payer, the only people they'll be able to blame is themselves.

They won't, of course.

What I wonder is whether they'll wish they had compromised on this.
.

/----/ Pacific Research Institute | Socialized medicine a global failure
Consider Canada’s true single-payer system. Patients must wait an average of more than two months to see a specialist after getting a referral from their general practitioner, according to the Fraser Institute, a nonpartisan Canadian think tank. Patients can expect to wait another 9.8 weeks, on average, before receiving the treatment they need from that specialist.

Overall, Canadians now wait even longer than last year — and 97 percent longer than they did in 1993.

Access to care is so poor, in fact, that 52,000 Canadians flee to the United States each year for medical attention. They refuse to wait in line for care as their health deteriorates.

Yes, I don't want what Canada has.

It's difficult for me to have conversations with people who really don't know what they're talking about.
.

 

[22lcidw]

Not entirely true. Government expanded social programs big time. And the CBO spouted 4% growth...p.s...the clinic was different in the 1960's.

Yes, it was.. It was completely ineffective in the 1960's for treating anything more complicated than a cold or a broken leg.

Clinics back then was most of the medical care before it became a business. One day operations were cheap compared to today. They kept pregnant women for three days I believe. When the nation began aging is when the costs went up with the help of poverty areas using the rescue squads as cab service. And there are other issues.

 

[JoeB131]

As for the paragraph I highlighted, the claim of longer life expectancy is misleading, as is the infant mortality rates. And, we don't have anything close to 63% of bankruptcies due, I said due, to medical bills.

Actually, the number is pretty accurate. I nearly went bankrupt in the mid-oughts because of minor medical bills, and I had insurance. You just don't realize how fast medical bills can wipe out your finances. It's taken me nearly 10 years to get back to where I was.

This shouldn't happen. Health care should be a public service, not a commodity.

 

[dblack]

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

So, yeah, when the politicking was washed away, Medicare was turned into another corporate feeding trough. Before I could consider supporting "Medicare for All", I need to hear advocates explain how and why that won't happen again. Democrats had complete control of the government when Obama was President and that still couldn't resist serving corporate lobbyists first. What's changed?

 

[Ambivalent1]

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

"Medicare is a federal health insurance program that pays for a variety of health care expenses. It’s administered by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS). Medicare beneficiaries are typically senior citizens aged 65 and older. Adults with certain approved medical conditions (such as Lou Gehrig’s disease) or qualifying permanent disabilities may also be eligible for Medicare benefits.

"Similar to Social Security, Medicare is an entitlement program. Most U.S. citizens earn the right to enroll in Medicare by working and paying their taxes for a minimum required period. Even if you didn’t work long enough to be entitled to Medicare benefits, you may still be eligible to enroll, but you might have to pay more.

Facts About Medicare

Medicare pays FIRST then the Medigap plans pay. As for Part C or MA plans, the insurance pays everything. Original Medicare is Federal Program using taxes to fund itself.

 

[dblack]

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

"Medicare is a federal health insurance program that pays for a variety of health care expenses. It’s administered by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS). Medicare beneficiaries are typically senior citizens aged 65 and older. Adults with certain approved medical conditions (such as Lou Gehrig’s disease) or qualifying permanent disabilities may also be eligible for Medicare benefits.

"Similar to Social Security, Medicare is an entitlement program. Most U.S. citizens earn the right to enroll in Medicare by working and paying their taxes for a minimum required period. Even if you didn’t work long enough to be entitled to Medicare benefits, you may still be eligible to enroll, but you might have to pay more.

Facts About Medicare

Medicare pays FIRST then the Medigap plans pay. As for Part C or MA plans, the insurance pays everything. Original Medicare is Federal Program using taxes to fund itself.

Did you read the article I linked to? Do you have any proof that they're wrong?

 

[Ambivalent1]

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

"Medicare is a federal health insurance program that pays for a variety of health care expenses. It’s administered by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS). Medicare beneficiaries are typically senior citizens aged 65 and older. Adults with certain approved medical conditions (such as Lou Gehrig’s disease) or qualifying permanent disabilities may also be eligible for Medicare benefits.

"Similar to Social Security, Medicare is an entitlement program. Most U.S. citizens earn the right to enroll in Medicare by working and paying their taxes for a minimum required period. Even if you didn’t work long enough to be entitled to Medicare benefits, you may still be eligible to enroll, but you might have to pay more.

Facts About Medicare

Medicare pays FIRST then the Medigap plans pay. As for Part C or MA plans, the insurance pays everything. Original Medicare is Federal Program using taxes to fund itself.

Did you read the article I linked to? Do you have any proof that they're wrong?

Did you read my citation? It tells you exactly what Medicare is and is not.

 

[dblack]

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

"Medicare is a federal health insurance program that pays for a variety of health care expenses. It’s administered by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS). Medicare beneficiaries are typically senior citizens aged 65 and older. Adults with certain approved medical conditions (such as Lou Gehrig’s disease) or qualifying permanent disabilities may also be eligible for Medicare benefits.

"Similar to Social Security, Medicare is an entitlement program. Most U.S. citizens earn the right to enroll in Medicare by working and paying their taxes for a minimum required period. Even if you didn’t work long enough to be entitled to Medicare benefits, you may still be eligible to enroll, but you might have to pay more.

Facts About Medicare

Medicare pays FIRST then the Medigap plans pay. As for Part C or MA plans, the insurance pays everything. Original Medicare is Federal Program using taxes to fund itself.

Did you read the article I linked to? Do you have any proof that they're wrong?

Did you read my citation? It tells you exactly what Medicare is and is not.

Yes. I've read if before. And it leaves out important details, in particular the one highlighted by the article I posted. So I ask again, did you read it? Do you have evidence that the authors are lying?

Listen, I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I don't think I am. And voters considering "Medicare for All" need to understand what they're signing up for.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

/—-/ No one is denied care. Just take your sick child to the ER you cold hearted bastard.

ER's are only required to give you emergency treatment... they do not treat long term issues like Pediatric cancer.

Seriously, are you some kind of a retard? Do I need to use smaller words?

Want to see single payer in action visit the VA.

The VA has been fine whenever I've had dealings with them. The problem with the VA is that it was never designed to handle a 17 year war.

The problems with the VA have been going on since its inception. I have had terrible experiences dealing with the VA.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Only because we have the Medicare Part C scam. Eliminate Part C... Medicare pays providers direct, they are the ONLY payer, the set prices at a reasonable level.

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions.

"Medicare is a federal health insurance program that pays for a variety of health care expenses. It’s administered by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS). Medicare beneficiaries are typically senior citizens aged 65 and older. Adults with certain approved medical conditions (such as Lou Gehrig’s disease) or qualifying permanent disabilities may also be eligible for Medicare benefits.

"Similar to Social Security, Medicare is an entitlement program. Most U.S. citizens earn the right to enroll in Medicare by working and paying their taxes for a minimum required period. Even if you didn’t work long enough to be entitled to Medicare benefits, you may still be eligible to enroll, but you might have to pay more.

Facts About Medicare

Medicare pays FIRST then the Medigap plans pay. As for Part C or MA plans, the insurance pays everything. Original Medicare is Federal Program using taxes to fund itself.

Did you read the article I linked to? Do you have any proof that they're wrong?

Did you read my citation? It tells you exactly what Medicare is and is not.

Yes. I've read if before. And it leaves out important details, in particular the one highlighted by the article I posted. So I ask again, did you read it? Do you have evidence that the authors are lying?

Listen, I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I don't think I am. And voters considering "Medicare for All" need to understand what they're signing up for.

Original Medicare is a FEDERAL Program funded by taxes. ALL claims (except for those using Part C products) are FIRST filed with Medicare and then submitted to the private carriers so they can pay their portion. Medicare itself The Feds) deny more claims than anyone (mostly due to an incorrect filing of the paperwork), and the private carriers must by law pay their portion. There is NO wobble room on this, none. The MAPD plans (while meeting a price point) are bullshit plans but since they are Private plans it enables carriers to take the denial route to indeed maximize profits.

 

[dblack]

That's not true, Joe. I used to think that as well. Most people do. But in fact, basic Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies. The only difference between Medicare and employer-provided health "insurance" is who is buying it on your behalf. We're just replacing dependency on an employer with dependency on the state. Medicare for all would funnel all of us into the insurance industry pens, just like ACA tried to do.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

"Medicare is a federal health insurance program that pays for a variety of health care expenses. It’s administered by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS). Medicare beneficiaries are typically senior citizens aged 65 and older. Adults with certain approved medical conditions (such as Lou Gehrig’s disease) or qualifying permanent disabilities may also be eligible for Medicare benefits.

"Similar to Social Security, Medicare is an entitlement program. Most U.S. citizens earn the right to enroll in Medicare by working and paying their taxes for a minimum required period. Even if you didn’t work long enough to be entitled to Medicare benefits, you may still be eligible to enroll, but you might have to pay more.

Facts About Medicare

Medicare pays FIRST then the Medigap plans pay. As for Part C or MA plans, the insurance pays everything. Original Medicare is Federal Program using taxes to fund itself.

Did you read the article I linked to? Do you have any proof that they're wrong?

Did you read my citation? It tells you exactly what Medicare is and is not.

Yes. I've read if before. And it leaves out important details, in particular the one highlighted by the article I posted. So I ask again, did you read it? Do you have evidence that the authors are lying?

Listen, I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I don't think I am. And voters considering "Medicare for All" need to understand what they're signing up for.

Original Medicare is a FEDERAL Program funded by taxes. ALL claims (except for those using Part C products) are FIRST filed with Medicare and then submitted to the private carriers so they can pay their portion. Medicare itself The Feds) deny more claims than anyone (mostly due to an incorrect filing of the paperwork), and the private carriers must by law pay their portion. There is NO wobble room on this, none. The MAPD plans (while meeting a price point) are bullshit plans but since they are Private plans it enables carriers to take the denial route to indeed maximize profits.

So you're not disputing the facts highlighted in the article? You seem to be acknowledging, albeit with caveats, excuses and random capitalization, that Medicare funnels money to the insurance industry. Just like ACA.

 

[Ambivalent1]

dblack
I agree with you, it barely stands on it's own within the current micro scale it's being used. On a macro scale it will fall apart in the end. People will NOT be happy with it.

 

[H B Lowrie]

No.

Americans aren’t wired for it. The culture is too individualistic and not collective enough.

Whether or not Americans are wired for it is irrelevant. No one wanted Obamacare and the dems pushed that through. Whose to say they wouldn’t do it for the liberal holy grail, regardless of what the people think?!

30M people without healthcare is already "**** what the people think". And your "Obama"care approach was hatched at The Heritage Foundation; Romney rolled it out in MA.

Yep, and that’s what makes it 100% wrong

Actually that's less than were uncovered before it. The real issue is, the entire political system does not want everyone in america to have healthcare or an education. Just watch. "Both" parties have kept it from we the people all along. And will continue to. Oh sure there will be the usual theater.

 

[H B Lowrie]

/----/ The best Single Payer is: You buy it - You pay for it.

They give simplistic dipshits like yourself little bullet points to parrot because you have the intellectual bandwidth of a bumper sticker.

But there is a reality which is going to crush you submissive dumb ***** under its wheels:


]

/----/ No one gave me any talking points. I'm old enough to remember when a person could buy health insurance like car insurance - you bought it and you paid for it.

And how has that been working out as the cost of health has increased over 800 percent in the past 50 years?

I'll tell you. More and more Americans have been priced out of the market. They can't pay for insurance they can't afford.

And so all the sloganeering in the world will not stand up to the truth of that chart. Americans are getting plowed under by reality, and since the Republican plan this entire time has been to do NOTHING, then it is just a matter of time before a majority cry out for single payer.

It is the apathy of people like you which will ensure that happens.

You idiots should be asking yourselves why the GOP or Trump have not come up with a replacement for Obamacare after NINE YEARS since its enactment.

You've been ******* hoaxed. Massively hoaxed. By Trump, by McConnell, by Boehner, and by Ryan. And you STILL have not woken up to that fact.

So here comes single payer whether you like it or not, and you are as much to blame as any goddam commie Democrat.

And the irony is that if Republicans had not screwed with the ACA it might well have worked pretty damn well. As it is...it works but they have damaged it.

And if they screw with it any more...single payer will end up being the result

Lol
Mandating insurance is fucked up no matter which way you look at it... you ******* retard

For profit health insurance is illegal in many advanced post-industrial nations where healthcare for all is "affordable".

 

[Rustic]

No.

Americans aren’t wired for it. The culture is too individualistic and not collective enough.

Whether or not Americans are wired for it is irrelevant. No one wanted Obamacare and the dems pushed that through. Whose to say they wouldn’t do it for the liberal holy grail, regardless of what the people think?!

30M people without healthcare is already "**** what the people think". And your "Obama"care approach was hatched at The Heritage Foundation; Romney rolled it out in MA.

Yep, and that’s what makes it 100% wrong

Actually that's less than were uncovered before it. The real issue is, the entire political system does not want everyone in american to have healthcare or an education.

Healthcare is not an right... me and my family have no right to healthcare but I do have the right to earn health care for them

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I think the very next time the dems the presidency and both chambers of Congress we’re headed for single payer healthcare.

SP is illogical and mathematically not feasible.