Will trump be forced to use national emergency to build wall

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's good and all, and I "hope" he does....(but seriously doubt we'll get a wall)

But I was actually addressing your statement about Courts.

That's what judges do (or are supposed to do) and that is judge whether an action is constitutional or lawful.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, the Democrats will find some rogue judge somewhere in Hawaii to stop Trump, but it's only temporary unless Trump gives up at that point. It will eventually (if not overturned by a higher court) end up at the Supreme Court where there is no overpowering bias against the Republicans. And who knows? Maybe by the time it gets there, Ginsburg will step out of the picture and then it it's almost guaranteed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If he does it will sure be funny listening to repubs ***** when the next dem president gets things done by emergency.

Democrats who say there is no threat of terrorists crossing our border are delusional
Democrats who say there is no threat of terrorists crossing our border are delusional

Contrary to the Democrat narrative, however, there is a very clear factual connection between terrorism and weak border security. I would know – I hunted terrorists for a living.

According to a 2018 report from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), U.S. authorities have apprehended as many as 15 suspected terrorists attempting to cross the U.S.-Mexico border since 2001. They were affiliated with groups such as ISIS, Hezbollah, the Pakistani Taliban, and others. At least five of those 15 migrants were separately prosecuted in North America for various crimes, including attempted murder, lying to the FBI about terrorism involvement, and providing material support to a terrorist organization.

However, since terrorism-related statistics are often classified, the actual number of detained terrorists is likely much higher than we know from public records.

“The 15 terrorism-associated migrants who traveled to the U.S. southern border likely represent a significant under-count since most information reflecting such border-crossers resides in classified or protected government archives,” CIS observes. “Most information relevant to addressing the question of how often terrorist suspects were apprehended at, or migrating to, the border would reside in government intelligence database systems exempt from public disclosure, and no collection of relevant publicly available material could be found,” CIS explains.

Based on information from intelligence sources, CIS states that at least 100 migrants from “countries of interest” who matched U.S. terrorist “watch lists” were apprehended “at or en route to the southern border” between 2012-2017.

It’s impossible to know how many terrorists have successfully crossed the U.S.-Mexico border undetected — and that’s why President Trump’s concern about border security is completely justified.

History teaches us that it only takes one radical to detonate a bomb at a busy square or drive a truck through a crowd of innocent people. Without a border wall, those radicals can simply walk into our country, and pick their target at leisure.

Not only that, we are having a problem with birther tourism. Countries are sending their citizens here to have children so their babies are legitimate Americans, then bringing them back home for radicalization.

Currently China is mostly involved, but it's catching on from such places as the middle-east. In 18 years, those babies will be legal adults and able to come to the US and not be questioned. They will be legal citizens and Lord knows what organizations they spent their life in. Unless we do something about anchor babies, we could be setting up ourselves for our own demise.

 

[kyzr]

It takes a joint resolution of congress to end an emergency declaration. The Senate would not approve that resolution, so Trump would have his emergency. The courts don't have a legal basis to stop Trump if a remedy exists. That would take an activist court, which would lose on appeal. Trump can also find the money, including using seized drug money.
Donald Trump can fund the border wall without congressional approval

Afraid not, and his declared emergency does not allow the arbitrary confiscation of private property to build anything. which would be taken up by the courts, and with the burden of proof being on Trump, would have to successfully prove the case the property would need to be forfeited. There is never going to be a Trump wall. Except for the one he will be incarcerated behind.

I don't see a link backing up your claim that Eminent Domain doesn't work for "emergencies". Any taking could be disputed in court, the only item in dispute would be the fair value of the compensation, not the taking. I've seen ranchers in Texas giving the ROW for the wall, so I'm not sure where you get your point that they don't want the wall. The issue could be water access, which is accomplished by pumped storage areas for the wildlife. If you look thru the interactive map below you can see the challenges to building the wall anywhere. The Trump wall will happen, but only where absolutely needed.
The Wall – Interactive map exploring U.S.-Mexico border

 

[LilOlLady]

If you think people are hurting by the shutdown just wait until Trump does not get his wall and caravans after caravans enter the US and how much your taxes are going to go up to support them. Anchor babies, mentally and physically disabled, education and ESL classes, and many who will commit crimes and incarcerated at the cost to American taxpayers. What is $5 billion compared to what illegal immigration is already costing taxpayers and $billions more if the borders are not secured? September 2017 report that the federal, state and local costs of more than 12.5 million people in the United States illegally was around $135 billion a year. (up from $113 billion in 2013). WTF are the Democrats drinking. Just wait until Trump grabs Ms. Prissy by you know what.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I think it will happen because democrats hate american values

Um, no, it has to be an actual emergency to use emergency powers.

The lowest level of illegal crossings in 30 years... This is not only a crisis, we are making real progress without a wall just doing what we are doing.

Estimates are at 2000 illegal crossings a day, 730,000 a year. You dont think that is a crisis?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think it will happen because democrats hate american values

Um, no, it has to be an actual emergency to use emergency powers.

The lowest level of illegal crossings in 30 years... This is not only a crisis, we are making real progress without a wall just doing what we are doing.

Estimates are at 2000 illegal crossings a day, 730,000 a year. You dont think that is a crisis?

In 2017, border patrol apprehended over 300,000 illegals. Yeah, I would say even if that's a reduced amount, it's still a major problem.

 

[LilOlLady]

I think it will happen because democrats hate american values

Um, no, it has to be an actual emergency to use emergency powers.

The lowest level of illegal crossings in 30 years... This is not only a crisis, we are making real progress without a wall just doing what we are doing.

Estimates are at 2000 illegal crossings a day, 730,000 a year. You dont think that is a crisis?

In 2017, border patrol apprehended over 300,000 illegals. Yeah, I would say even if that's a reduced amount, it's still a major problem.

Border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year.

 

[LilOlLady]

border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year.

 

[LilOlLady]

How Trump could use a national emergency to get his border wall, explained
“He has broad leeway to declare an emergency, frankly, whether one exists or not.”

Many Democrats and some legal scholars have said that Trump can’t declare a national emergency to get the border wall funded. Others say there are avenues he could definitely try, setting up potential battles in Congress and in the courts.

Many presidents have declared national emergencies, including George W. Bush after 9/11 and Barack Obama during the swine flu outbreak in 2009.

He could, for example, reallocate military spending on construction projects for the wall. One law allows the defense secretary, after a national emergency declaration, to direct the army’s civil works program to construct a structure needed for national defense and use the military budget to do it. Another lets the secretary direct other military services for construction projects. For example, money could come out of the budget for building housing on military bases for service members and into the budget for the wall.

How Trump could use a national emergency to get his border wall, explained

 

[LilOlLady]

It takes a joint resolution of congress to end an emergency declaration. The Senate would not approve that resolution, so Trump would have his emergency. The courts don't have a legal basis to stop Trump if a remedy exists. That would take an activist court, which would lose on appeal. Trump can also find the money, including using seized drug money.
Donald Trump can fund the border wall without congressional approval

Afraid not, and his declared emergency does not allow the arbitrary confiscation of private property to build anything. which would be taken up by the courts, and with the burden of proof being on Trump, would have to successfully prove the case the property would need to be forfeited. There is never going to be a Trump wall. Except for the one he will be incarcerated behind.

I don't see a link backing up your claim that Eminent Domain doesn't work for "emergencies". Any taking could be disputed in court, the only item in dispute would be the fair value of the compensation, not the taking. I've seen ranchers in Texas giving the ROW for the wall, so I'm not sure where you get your point that they don't want the wall. The issue could be water access, which is accomplished by pumped storage areas for the wildlife. If you look thru the interactive map below you can see the challenges to building the wall anywhere. The Trump wall will happen, but only where absolutely needed.
The Wall – Interactive map exploring U.S.-Mexico border

He has already said not the entire length of the border but only in those places where there are no barriers and those fences and walls in need of repair.

 

[busybee01]

And the Courts will slap him down when he tries it, assuming someone in the Justice Department doesn't talk some sense into him before he tries it.

The President can both Constitutionally and legally declare a National Emergency, and the courts can't stop him from building the Wall. ...

The courts can stop him as the Constitution gives the Congress the power of the purse. It doesn't say but or if. The Congress can defund any action a President says even a military action.

 

[busybee01]

I think it will be his only choice.

------------------------------------------ i think so but if he does he will have to ignore the court or courts . Maybe he can Force a Quick hearing at the 'supreme court' .

The message that was sent by the Supreme Court's refusal to take a DACA case is that we are not going to bail out Trump. I think this is due to John Roberts influence. I do thing the courts will stop Trump and the Supreme Court will not bail him out.

 

[busybee01]

YES. It has been a humanitarian crisis and a national security crisis with the caravans here and those on the way. We cannot handle that many people and with this, some that will enter will do us harm. Not prepared to vet and process effectively that many people. Most of those in the caravans that entered were released never to be seen again. Also, create a financial crisis and if nothing is done on the border it will be a nightmare we can never fix and recover from because they will keep coming with nothing to stop them. Democrats are an evil entity and a danger to America

There is no basis for a national emergency. White supremacists like you are a evil entity and a danger to America.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And the Courts will slap him down when he tries it, assuming someone in the Justice Department doesn't talk some sense into him before he tries it.

The President can both Constitutionally and legally declare a National Emergency, and the courts can't stop him from building the Wall. ...

The courts can stop him as the Constitution gives the Congress the power of the purse. It doesn't say but or if. The Congress can defund any action a President says even a military action.

No they can't, not if there is a law permitting the President to do just that. In order for the courts to stop Trump, they would have to rule that the Emergency Act of 1976 is unconstitutional, and good luck with that one.

Declaring an emergency does not involve Congress because it doesn't give the right for a President to pass a budget. It gives the President a right to use funds already appropriated and transfer those funds to his claimed emergency. In other words, it won't strip Congress of their power of the purse and won't cost the taxpayers one additional cent. It will likely transfer money from our defense budget to build the wall.

 

[oreo]

I think it will happen because democrats hate american values

There is no National Emergency, according to 9 REPUBLICAN districts along the border. It would be immediately challenged & overturned in court.
GOP Rep. Will Hurd on border wall shutdown: ‘If this is a crisis, the people that are dealing with this crisis should get paid’

You might as well get used to it, there will be no Trump WALL. I believe Democrats will go with a smart wall aka high tech solutions as recommended by Will Hurd, Texas Republican senator who has a district that covers 840 miles of the border.
https://www.ktsa.com/hurd-plans-high-tech-border-wall/

 

[otto105]

I think it will happen because democrats hate american values

The Democratic response will be to ***** slap that wall.

The republic response will be to win gthe next election on the wall.



Shutting down the government over losing elections is the stuff of babies. Assholes just cry it out...

 

[toomuchtime_]

It is different but the principle is the same. Presidents have declared states of emergencies because of inflation or logjams in shipping goods and all kinds of other problems when Congress was unable to take effective action over 500 times.

I don’t have a list of all these instances but I’d bet I would be in agreement with less than 5% of them, based on basic Constitutionality.

It is not really a constitutional issue. In saner times Congress passed laws granting the President vast powers to act when he deems Congress is unable to act effectively, and these laws strip Congress of the power to rescind these powers without the consent of the President.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[task0778]

About national emergencies: (excerpts)

Obviously, the president lacks any inherent authority to spend money. Article I, Section 9 unambiguously states, “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” However, The Secure Fence Act of 2006 mandated that DHS “construct fencing “along not less than 700 miles of the southwest border.” So, in this case Congress has explicitly authorized fencing at the border, and although it did not appropriate the funding, the president can rely on funding through a declaration of a national emergency. Whether this rises to the level of an emergency or not is the subject of a political debate that should be settled between the political branches, not the courts.

Further:

Section 2808 of the National Emergencies Act of 1976 allows the secretary of defense to “undertake military construction projects” that are “not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces” in the event that the president declares a national emergency. A parallel statute, <33 U.S. Code § 2293, allows the secretary, during such a declared emergency, to redirect “the resources of the Department of the Army’s civil works program, including funds, personnel, and equipment, to construct or assist in the construction, operation, maintenance, and repair of authorized civil works, military construction, and civil defense projects that are essential to the national defense.”

There are no parameters governing the criteria for such a declaration or defining the types of projects that might be in order. The only thing the secretary of defense has to do is to communicate the nature of the decision and its costs to the relevant congressional committee, but he does not need to obtain congressional approval. One might legitimately feel uncomfortable with such broad authority delegated to the president, but nonetheless, this is the law on the books. Congress has delegated a lot of authority to the president for the purpose of protecting our sovereignty and security, like it or not.

Nobody likes broad delegated authority on appropriations, but given that Congress has delegated such authority to spend the money, I have no problem using it on a project that has already been authorized under statute. Section 102(a) of the The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA) provides that the secretary of homeland security “shall take such actions as may be necessary to install additional physical barriers and roads … in the vicinity of the United States border to deter illegal crossings in areas of high illegal entry into the United States.” And there is the afore-mentioned Secure Fence Act of 2006, supported by a significant number of Democrats BTW.

Yes, the president has the authority to build the wall


Back to the question of whether the border wall rises to the level of a national emergency, I am doubtful that the Courts are in a position to make that call, or should do so. If both Houses of Congress were to pass resolutions specifying that it does not, then I could see the Courts taking that into account, but quite frankly I'm not sure that some of the democrats in red districts would want to vote for that, and in any case the Senate wouldn't do it. I do believe that the Dems will not agree to fund the wall after this temporary period is over, and I think Trump will declare the NE. And it'll go through the Courts, which delays the process. Will the delay last long enough? Don't know, but if Trump is voted out of office, he would have until January 20, 2021 to get as much done.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually there has been an emergency for several years now, except nobody wanted to acknowledge it. Just ask any Angel family. Trump wanted to get this matter settled last month, it was by force he reopen the government and show restraint.