Will American ever become a Christian Theocracy?

[Intense]

I believe you believe that. But is not Sharia Law based on edicts from the Qu'ran? I have read the Qu'ran. I could find NOTHING there that supports or recognizes unalienable rights. So help me out there. Where in the Qu'ran is a passage that would support or promote recognition of and defense of unalienable rights?

Unalienable Rights concerns 3 areas of and individuals life.

1) personal security

2) personal liberty

3) private property

There is nothing in the Quran that opposes any of these three rights.

Sunni, How many Countries that are members of the UN recognize Unalienable Rights? Take a guess. Islam is not so alone in denying them. You want to work to change that. Teach it then. Unalienable Rights come from our Creator, not Government, they include what you say but are not limited to them. Government has a role in recognizing them and protecting them. Study Locke more. I think you would approve.

 

[Intense]

I believe you believe that. But is not Sharia Law based on edicts from the Qu'ran? I have read the Qu'ran. I could find NOTHING there that supports or recognizes unalienable rights. So help me out there. Where in the Qu'ran is a passage that would support or promote recognition of and defense of unalienable rights?

Unalienable Rights concerns 3 areas of and individuals life.

1) personal security

2) personal liberty

3) private property

There is nothing in the Quran that opposes any of these three rights.

No. Unalienable rights are those that require no contribution or anything else from another person other than their non interference. That includes the right to think, believe, worship, speak, behave, live my life, and utilize my property in any I choose so long as I do not infring on anybody else's unalienable, Constitutional, legal, or civil rights.

Are you saying that I would be completely 'secure' in an Islamic country if I expressed criticism of Mohammed? That I would be free to share my faith, invite Muslims to worship in a Christian community, to express my opinons about Mohammed and Islam even if those opinions were not complimentary? That my property and person would be considered inviolate if I was declared to be an infidel?

Again I haven't found this kind of assurance in the Qu-ran, and I again ask you for specific chapter and verse that would provide that kind of assurance.

You would be lucky to be able to build a single church.

 

[Sunni Man]

You would be lucky to be able to build a single church.

Incorrect

Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistain, etc.

All have churches, a large christian population, and freedom to worship.

 

[Intense]

You would be lucky to be able to build a single church.

Incorrect

Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistain, etc.

All have churches, a large christian population, and freedom to worship.

Thats good, maybe we could have brunch in Mecca?

Seriously, it's good those countries allow that. There should be more of it Sunni. It's a point for Reform. Remember the term "Perpetual Reconciliation"? We are alway's stepping in something, regardless of Faith. Tolerance goes a long way in redemption.

 

[Sunni Man]

Thats good, maybe we could have brunch in Mecca?

Convert to Islam and I will pick up the check!!

 

[DiveCon]

Thats good, maybe we could have brunch in Mecca?

Convert to Islam and I will pick up the check!!

why would he need to convert?

 

[Sunni Man]

Thats good, maybe we could have brunch in Mecca?

Convert to Islam and I will pick up the check!!

why would he need to convert?

Because only Muslims are allowed into the city of Mecca.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why would anyone convert? I did, because my native religion did not meet my needs.

 

[Foxfyre]

You would be lucky to be able to build a single church.

Incorrect

Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistain, etc.

All have churches, a large christian population, and freedom to worship.

Lebanon has had a large enough Christian population in the past, it may be more tolerant of Christianity than the others.

But just take Turkey alone. I helped a friend who was going to be teaching in Turkey a couple of years to research whether she would have any accommodation for her Methodist faith. We consulted several sources including others we knew who had lived, worked, and/or been stationed in Turkey. The following excerpt pretty well sums up what we found out--I'm guessing other countries where Islam is a strong majority are not much different. (And I'm still waiting for those passages from the Qu'ran guaranteeing me, a Christian, all those unalienable rights. )

Although many Turks dislike the term "State Islam", it has to be stated that Islam is organised by the state. Sunnis who consider this an unacceptable innovation are not allowed to organise. Although Sufi orders exist, some even with a vast membership, they have been officially forbidden banned since the 1920s.

The main problem religious communities identify is their lack of legal status as religious communities. In the late Ottoman period some religious minorities had legal status under the millet system, but the Islamic community had no separate legal status as the state
was considered to be Islamic. But since the founding of the Turkish republic, any such status has disappeared. Some Muslims are concerned about this lack of legal status, especially minority Muslim groups within the dominant Sunni majority, as well as the
Alevis, Shias and the Sufi orders. But few Muslims are prepared to voice their demands for legal status openly, for fear of imprisonment, although in recent years the Alevis have become more vocal. This has led to their gaining some recognition as associations, though not as religious bodies.

Religious meetings and services without authorisation remain illegal, though it remains unclear in law what constitutes legal and illegal worship. The Ottoman millet system recognised some religious minorities and the 1923 Lausanne Treaty spoke vaguely of
religious minority rights without naming them, but the Turkish authorities interpret this to exclude communities such as the Roman Catholics, Syriac Orthodox and Lutherans, even though these communities have found ways to function. Protestant Christian churches functioning quietly in non-recognised buildings are generally tolerated, but Muslims gathering outside an approved mosque are viewed as a threat to the state and police will raid them.

It is not possible for most Protestant Christian churches to be recognised as churches under current Turkish law. But in one bizarre case, a German Christian church was recognised in Antalya, but only by calling itself a "chapel" not a "church." Most Evangelical
Protestant churches in Turkey do not.
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=670&pdf=Y

 

[Sunni Man]

Why would anyone convert? I did, because my native religion did not meet my needs.

Voodoo??

 

[Intense]

Convert to Islam and I will pick up the check!!

why would he need to convert?

Because only Muslims are allowed into the city of Mecca.

I'm Shocked!!!!! Let's do Madina then.

We can stop in at Vatican City too.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why would anyone convert? I did, because my native religion did not meet my needs.

Voodoo??

Voodoo that hoodoo that you do so well....

 

[DiveCon]

Convert to Islam and I will pick up the check!!

why would he need to convert?

Because only Muslims are allowed into the city of Mecca.

you've just blown away your premise

 

[Sky Dancer]

why would he need to convert?

Because only Muslims are allowed into the city of Mecca.

I'm Shocked!!!!! Let's do Madina then.

We can stop in at Vatican City too.

USMB pilgrimage. Let's add Bodhygaya.

 

[Intense]

why would he need to convert?

Because only Muslims are allowed into the city of Mecca.

you've just blown away your premise

Shhhh!!!! .... I wasn't done yet. Do I at least get an assist?

 

[Foxfyre]

Convert to Islam and I will pick up the check!!

why would he need to convert?

Because only Muslims are allowed into the city of Mecca.

And why is that? All faiths are welcomed into Vatican City. Anybody, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, or Druid would be welcome at my church. Why would Christians be excluded from Mecca given Islamic inclusiveness and respect for human rights and all?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Mormons don't allow non-Mormons into their temples after they've been consecrated.

Non-buddhists are not allowed in for our ceremonies without empowerment.

Native Americans are also secret about many of their practices.

 

[DiveCon]

Mormons don't allow non-Mormons into their temples after they've been consecrated.

Non-buddhists are not allowed in for our ceremonies without empowerment.

Native Americans are also secret about many of their practices.

as far as i know, you are allowed into the temple for mormons, but not into certain areas
similar for the RCC and Orthodox church

 

[Intense]

Mormons don't allow non-Mormons into their temples after they've been consecrated.

Non-buddhists are not allowed in for our ceremonies without empowerment.

Native Americans are also secret about many of their practices.

I've been to a couple of Mormon Temples. There are areas within that you are not allowed, but access to the Site yes. There are some bank vaults I think we should have access to, how about you????? Are you in?

It's not the same comparison SD.

 

[Foxfyre]

Mormons don't allow non-Mormons into their temples after they've been consecrated.

Non-buddhists are not allowed in for our ceremonies without empowerment.

Native Americans are also secret about many of their practices.

as far as i know, you are allowed into the temple for mormons, but not into certain areas
similar for the RCC and Orthodox church

Well I don't know. I worked for the RCC for a number of years and a number of my family are RCC; and I, a non-Catholic and have never been a Catholic, was not forbidden to go anywhere in any Catholic Church I was ever in. Of course visitors to a monastery or other cloistered order would not be able to violate the privacy of the residents by going through their living quarters, but that's the only restriction I can think of and it has nothing to do with religion.

And yes, in the Jewish Temple there are areas restricted to only the priests, but even the Jews who were not priests could not enter those areas. So again, a different thing.

There are a few very narrow fundamentalist Christian groups who have some funny ideas about who should be allowed to do what, but I think by and large most Christian denominations and groups are highly inclusive and welcoming to all without there being any kind of litmus test involved. I know any Muslim or any other person could walk into any of our worship services and he or she would be warmly greeted, handed a program or bulletin outlining the service, and directed to a good seat where he or she would likely be introduced to people sitting nearby.