Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JRK]

So things under Saddam where great huh?
why did his own people hang him?

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

Thats like stating the whites executed a black in the united states
Thats because there is allot more whites than blacks and 100% of the time the person who gets executed here has been judged such.
See its just how you spin it

And as far as things getting worse, with respect to you keep stating that a poll would be nice, its kind of in a place in which the level of agendas, well Dan Rather and his dealings in 2004 should cover that

 

[JRK]

Curveball.....you know.....the Iraqi national who told us Saddam had WMD's?

Guess what.......he's since admitted that he lied.

Our whole war was based on lies and greed. Shall we talk about Cheney's company Halliburton and their shoddy construction inside the Green Zone that killed around 47 soldiers (some of whom were special forces) by electrocuting them in the showers?

How's about the unarmored HumVees that we started with?

Yeah......sure.........

what about this guy/
A former general and friend of Saddam Hussein who defected but maintains close contact with Iraq claims the regime supported al-Qaida with intelligence, finances and munitions and believes weapons of mass destruction are hidden in Syria.

Ali Ibrahim al-Tikriti, southern regional commander for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen militia in the late 1980s, spoke with Ryan Mauro of WorldThreats.com.

Known as the "Butcher of Basra," al-Tikriti commanded units that dealt with chemical and biological weapons. He defected shortly before the Gulf War in 1991.

Last month, Saddam Hussein's No. 2 Air Force officer, Georges Sada, told the New York Sun Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were moved to Syria six weeks before the war started. Sada claimed two Iraqi Airways Boeing jets converted to cargo planes moved the weapons in a total of 56 flights. They attracted little attention, he said, because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in 2002.



Read more: Saddam general: WMDs in Syria Saddam general: WMDs in Syria


how about these 500 munitions that Saddam was suppose to have destroyed?
Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

how about Blix and the UN?
In his report Blix said that he had a "strong suspicion" that Iraq "is hiding" as much as 10,000 liters of the exotic poison.
he private proclamation went further than Blix's public statements where he insisted that weapons Baghdad could not account for was not proof they existed and were hidden.

A senior official at the French foreign ministry in Paris told NewsMax that he was aware of the assertion by Blix and believed it was made "under pressure from Washington."

On Thursday, CIA Director George Tenet told an audience at Georgetown University that his agency's assessment on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was shared by numerous intelligence agencies other than the CIA.

Blix's report would seem to corroborate the Tenet claim.

Former U.N. chief arms inspector Rolf Ekeus had explained that anthrax is one form of WMD that is easily hidden and stored.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

What a steaming pile of shit.

The lack of integrity it took for you to post that makes ME blush.

 

[BlindBoo]

So things under Saddam where great huh?
why did his own people hang him?

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

Thats like stating the whites executed a black in the united states
Thats because there is allot more whites than blacks and 100% of the time the person who gets executed here has been judged such.
See its just how you spin it

And as far as things getting worse, with respect to you keep stating that a poll would be nice, its kind of in a place in which the level of agendas, well Dan Rather and his dealings in 2004 should cover that

Do you have a coherent answer?

Do you know where you are in this conversation?

Because I pointed out that several sectors of Iraqi society have suffered loss of liberty and freedom after the US invasion and occuaption you state rather flipantly that "So things under Saddam where great huh?"

It has nothing to do with our own history of civil rights abuses.

Also, what does Dan Rather have to do with the fact that Iraqis lost freedom and liberty due to the USA invasion and occupation?

 

[BlindBoo]

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

What a steaming pile of shit.

The lack of integrity it took for you to post that makes ME blush.

Bwaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhahahahaha. Oh no, a living pile of human excrement is telling me I have no integrity. The Horror of it all. Should I slit my own throat or just put a cap in my head?



Iraq: Vulnerable Citizens at Risk | Human Rights Watch

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you have a coherent answer?

Are you able to be honest?

{1988: Chemical attack on Kurdish village of Halabja killed approximately 5,000 people.

1987-1988: Iraqi regime used chemical agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages.

1990-91: 1,000 Kuwaitis were killed in Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

1991: Bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a uprisings in northern and southern Iraq killed at least 30,000 to 60,000. At least 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

2001: Amnesty International report: "Victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

Human Rights Watch: Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.

Refugees International: "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis."

Iraq's 13 million Shiite Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, faced severe restrictions on their religious practice.}

Read more: Brainroom: Saddam Hussein's Atrocities - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

The War Crimes of Saddam Hussein

FDD: ALERT: Saddam

Saddams Own Torture Videos -- And Some Other Important Info On Saddam's Atrocities(warning-GRAPHIC)

 

[Uncensored2008]

Bwaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhahahahaha. Oh no, a living pile of human excrement is telling me I have no integrity.

You have no integrity. Name calling won't alter this fact. You have no integrity.

 

[JRK]

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

Thats like stating the whites executed a black in the united states
Thats because there is allot more whites than blacks and 100% of the time the person who gets executed here has been judged such.
See its just how you spin it

And as far as things getting worse, with respect to you keep stating that a poll would be nice, its kind of in a place in which the level of agendas, well Dan Rather and his dealings in 2004 should cover that

Do you have a coherent answer?

Do you know where you are in this conversation?

Because I pointed out that several sectors of Iraqi society have suffered loss of liberty and freedom after the US invasion and occuaption you state rather flipantly that "So things under Saddam where great huh?"

It has nothing to do with our own history of civil rights abuses.

Also, what does Dan Rather have to do with the fact that Iraqis lost freedom and liberty due to the USA invasion and occupation?

History of civil rights abuse?
You claimed one group in Iraq was larger another
And I countered that we have a group in this country much larger than another group also, and that group bestows due justice to that other group
Its called justice, you know
has nothing to do with race nor ethnic background as you claim it did in Iraq
Abuse?
who said anything about abuse
If a white man breaks the law and a black judge puts him in prison is that abuse?
same with a white judge and a black criminal?

Your pointing people have lost freedom and Liberty from a time when they got no vote to a time in which they all vote?
i did not see much of a reason to debate thathttp://www.usmessageboard.com/images/smilies/lol.gif

 

[Late2TheParty]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

I would consider buying a Honda Civic for a million dollars a failure too.

Yeah, you got what you wanted, but at what cost?

BTW, Iraq was relatively stabile until we arrived. Then we came in and didn't make sure all those former Iraqy army guys were kept on, pay them a pittance compared to the shitstorm that was to come, and got the whole semi-civil war.

Hell, I heard they bought in Indians to work at rebuilding the country instead of hiring Iraqis themselves. Penny-wise and pound foolish. What idiots we have in leadership

 

[georgephillip]

Explain why the richest 1% of Americans have increased their share of national wealth by two percent over the last two years when millions of working Americans have lost their jobs and houses.

Capitalism is not fair.

Would you agree (with Marx) it (capitalism) becomes a Revolutionary force after it emasculates government?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If conservatives view the Iraq War as a success, then what do they consider a "failure?

...any conservative who admits the war was a disaster. The conservative code requires you never admit you were wrong, no matter how badly you fucked up.

 

[georgephillip]

Explain why the richest 1% of Americans have increased their share of national wealth by two percent over the last two years when millions of working Americans have lost their jobs and houses.

To start with the to 1% has stopped spending money, I think the question you have to ask your self is why
you elected him

Those who have lost there jobs?m how many more jobs would we have in this country if we were drilling/extracting and refining oil right here in the good ol USA?
How about shale?
How about some nukes (power plants)
no-one can create work if the govt stops it

When the housing bubble busted all of those people have no where to go. How is that a rich persons fault?

For the record, JRK, I was pretty clear about Obama's corporate tilt before he was sworn in, and nothing he's done since has changed by mind.

I haven't voted for a Democrat OR Republican in decades EXCEPT for an occasional state or local candidate.

I don't know how many jobs could be created by drilling in this country. I'm guessing it would be far fewer than those created by building high-speed rail and universal internet from sea to shining sea. (Possibly the Pentagon could direct these projects?)

I think Japan might answer your nukes question.
Three strikes (Chernobyl, Three Miles Island and Tokyo) and you are usually O-U-T.

Finally the rich have always saved more money than the rest of us. In the later (terminal?) stages of capitalism this produces a paradox of accumulation for the richest parasites.

There are only so many productive uses their money can be put to. When those becomes scarce, Wall Street becomes a Casino.

The inflation and collapse of the housing/credit bubbles is entirely the fault of gambling losses of the rich that taxpayers were coerced into backing up, IMHO.

And they are not through taking a greater share of national income and wealth.

The rich can not stop taking for the same reason sharks can't stop swimming.
They will die.
And they know it.

 

[Vanquish]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

I would consider buying a Honda Civic for a million dollars a failure too.

Yeah, you got what you wanted, but at what cost?

BTW, Iraq was relatively stabile until we arrived. Then we came in and didn't make sure all those former Iraqy army guys were kept on, pay them a pittance compared to the shitstorm that was to come, and got the whole semi-civil war.

Hell, I heard they bought in Indians to work at rebuilding the country instead of hiring Iraqis themselves. Penny-wise and pound foolish. What idiots we have in leadership

Putting to the side JRK's dumbed-down version of what I posted...

At what cost?? So faced with the dictator who killed THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE..you're asking what the cost was?

And what the **** do you mean by stable? If by stable you mean the same government stayed in power...that's retarded because that government was KILLING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

Some people really don't know how to make an argument.

 

[Late2TheParty]

At what cost?? So faced with the dictator who killed THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE..you're asking what the cost was?

Yes. There are lots of dictators in the world. They're not an American problem to solve.

And what the **** do you mean by stable? If by stable you mean the same government stayed in power...that's retarded because that government was KILLING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

The pentagon, via Wikileaks, estimated 92,000 civilians died due to invasion and later occupation/semi-civil-war. I doubt that many Iraqi civilians would have died under Saddam in the same time span.

 

[BlindBoo]

Do you have a coherent answer?

Are you able to be honest?

{1988: Chemical attack on Kurdish village of Halabja killed approximately 5,000 people.

1987-1988: Iraqi regime used chemical agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages.

1990-91: 1,000 Kuwaitis were killed in Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

1991: Bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a uprisings in northern and southern Iraq killed at least 30,000 to 60,000. At least 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

2001: Amnesty International report: "Victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

Human Rights Watch: Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.

Refugees International: "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis."

Iraq's 13 million Shiite Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, faced severe restrictions on their religious practice.}

Read more: Brainroom: Saddam Hussein's Atrocities - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

The War Crimes of Saddam Hussein

FDD: ALERT: Saddam

Saddams Own Torture Videos -- And Some Other Important Info On Saddam's Atrocities(warning-GRAPHIC)

Feel free to post any response I've made that deny the above allegations. More to the point many of those attocities were made during a time in which your hero, Ronnie Raygun, was providing Saddam with financial and military support/aid, after having taken them off the nations who support terrorist list and giving them valued trading partner status, which they held long after the Iranian war was over.

 

[BlindBoo]

Bwaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhahahahaha. Oh no, a living pile of human excrement is telling me I have no integrity.

You have no integrity. Name calling won't alter this fact. You have no integrity.

Don't be too suprise when your insults are returned in kind to you. Someone who flings "Steaming piles of Shit" post, in my opinion does not have the capacity to judge anyones integrity.

 

[Rinata]

1) remove saddam
done
2) stabilize country
done
3) have a republic born of these events
done

am missing something here?

bfd. THAT was worth all of the American loss of life??? Spare me.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Feel free to post any response I've made that deny the above allegations.

Okay.

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...e-iraqi-war-was-a-failure-20.html#post3426925

Hey, but you're lying for the party - which is an honorable thing to do, right?

More to the point many of those attocities were made during a time in which your hero, Ronnie Raygun, was providing Saddam with financial and military support/aid,

It's spelled "Reagan," stupid ****. Reagan was not in office in 1992, nor 1997, nor 1998.

There was a constant pattern of abuse. Saddam was a tyrant. From the rape rooms to chemical attacks, this was a constant.

Your blind hatred of anything right of Castro may justify lying in your alleged mind, but it doesn't alter the fact that what you post is patently false.

You serve your party and you have no integrity, ergo you post anything which smears the hated opposition or promotes your shameful party - regardless of veracity.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Don't be too suprise when your insults are returned in kind to you.

You have no integrity.

That isn't an insult, it is demonstrable fact.

You base your posts on how they will serve your party, not on whether they are factual or accurate.

This is simply the truth - which both of us and everyone else in this forum is aware of.

 

[BlindBoo]

Feel free to post any response I've made that deny the above allegations.

Okay.

No, not great like we have here in the states, but the point is things got worse not better for Iraqis(esp women) after the shiites executed Saddam.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...e-iraqi-war-was-a-failure-20.html#post3426925

Hey, but you're lying for the party - which is an honorable thing to do, right?

More to the point many of those attocities were made during a time in which your hero, Ronnie Raygun, was providing Saddam with financial and military support/aid,

It's spelled "Reagan," stupid ****. Reagan was not in office in 1992, nor 1997, nor 1998.

There was a constant pattern of abuse. Saddam was a tyrant. From the rape rooms to chemical attacks, this was a constant.

Your blind hatred of anything right of Castro may justify lying in your alleged mind, but it doesn't alter the fact that what you post is patently false.

You serve your party and you have no integrity, ergo you post anything which smears the hated opposition or promotes your shameful party - regardless of veracity.

Before Rayguns involvment with Saddam Iraq was the most secular of all Arab Nations. It boasted the highest literacy rates for women amoung Aram nations. Women didn't even need to wear veils.

Ronnie Raygun was the one most responisble for Saddams access to western technology. In 1982 he removed Iraq from the nations who sponsor terrorist list and gave them most favored trading status. This allows them to buy duel use technology from not only American companies but from all of our allies as well. France, Germany the UK all got in on the sales action too. We also gave Iraq 4 billion in guarenteed loans (which Iraq defaulted on in 1990). Rayrun refused to sanction Saddam for using gas on the Iranians during the 1980-1988 war and when it was used against the Kurds in 1988.

Your hero will alway be Raygun to me. And fitting too. President Bush was still stumping for the Star War Missile defense as the way to protect America from the foreign threats (not those damn terrorist president Clinton warned him about) on 9-11.

Better than Ronnie Headroom