Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JakeStarkey]

Your continued refusal to accept that you have p'wnd here only underlines your immoral stubborness. Your unbending belief unsupported by the evidence remains adult thinkers of the type of mentality that led to auto de fes or the camps in various countries the last 100 years.

Your OP is fail.

 

[JRK]

Your continued refusal to accept that you have p'wnd here only underlines your immoral stubborness. Your unbending belief unsupported by the evidence remains adult thinkers of the type of mentality that led to auto de fes or the camps in various countries the last 100 years.

Your OP is fail.

U keep making the same accusations with nothing t back it up with. Your proving my point better than I ever could

 

[Dr.Drock]

Son, you have responded for weeks now though you say but do not act as if I am on ignore. Liberals and conservatives and libertarians alike have debunked your false allegations and poorly supported evidence.

Your OP has been a monumental failure in defending your progressive right-wind neo-conservative imperialism.

A massive failure.

Jake there has been a total of 4-6 people who have lied there way thru this entir thread
Yes I have responded to you last few acts of desperation, but your on my ignore list
I just do not take what you say serious any more
your angry we won
your angry come to find out there was more about Iraq than you were told
That's why you and drock and Ibb are so mad about these events

Look its never been about anything but 1 thing
the truth
and the truth is if any-one lied it was Saddam
There was reasons in HR 1441 to invade
Congress agreed
Clinton agreed in 98 for the same reasons
It was the right thing to do
we won
some of the cost has been off set by less funding to the UN
bases being closed in Saudi and Kuwait
and as shown many times we were fighting Al Qaeda most of the time after 2003

its that simple
what is there to debunk?

dude you need to chill, stop being hateful towards me and anyone you dis agree with/ I am not the one who told you all of those lies

You have to invent reasons why we don't like the war, because the basic facts we put right in front of your face don't fit your already pre-thought out assumptions.

Let me correct you for the 1,000th time (probably literally) in these threads;

1.) Obviously, I'll never be mad about the U.S. winning a war military, despite your crazy hyperbole.
2.) No I haven't found out there was more in Iraq than the media says. The exact opposite is true, I've found out there was far less in Iraq than what our gov't (dems and reps alike) led us to believe in order to get some of the american public favoring warmongering in Iraq.
3.) And I know this will never sink in but I'll repeat it just for the sake of getting the truth out, the reasons I don't like the war are the 4500 dead soldiers/10's of thousands of soldiers permanently ravaged physically and or mentally/100,000 dead Iraqis/trillions of debt we'll never have paid/putting a Hezbollah-Iran ally at the head of the country/installing an apartheid regime that's forced 100,000 minority religion members to flee the country.

Now obviously by all your posts you don't give a damn about anything I outlined in line #3, but keep pretending your position is pro-america, pro-soldier and pro-Iraqi.

 

[JRK]

Son, you have responded for weeks now though you say but do not act as if I am on ignore. Liberals and conservatives and libertarians alike have debunked your false allegations and poorly supported evidence.

Your OP has been a monumental failure in defending your progressive right-wind neo-conservative imperialism.

A massive failure.

Jake there has been a total of 4-6 people who have lied there way thru this entir thread
Yes I have responded to you last few acts of desperation, but your on my ignore list
I just do not take what you say serious any more
your angry we won
your angry come to find out there was more about Iraq than you were told
That's why you and drock and Ibb are so mad about these events

Look its never been about anything but 1 thing
the truth
and the truth is if any-one lied it was Saddam
There was reasons in HR 1441 to invade
Congress agreed
Clinton agreed in 98 for the same reasons
It was the right thing to do
we won
some of the cost has been off set by less funding to the UN
bases being closed in Saudi and Kuwait
and as shown many times we were fighting Al Qaeda most of the time after 2003

its that simple
what is there to debunk?

dude you need to chill, stop being hateful towards me and anyone you dis agree with/ I am not the one who told you all of those lies

You have to invent reasons why we don't like the war, because the basic facts we put right in front of your face don't fit your already pre-thought out assumptions.

Let me correct you for the 1,000th time (probably literally) in these threads;

1.) Obviously, I'll never be mad about the U.S. winning a war military, despite your crazy hyperbole.
2.) No I haven't found out there was more in Iraq than the media says. The exact opposite is true, I've found out there was far less in Iraq than what our gov't (dems and reps alike) led us to believe in order to get some of the american public favoring warmongering in Iraq.
3.) And I know this will never sink in but I'll repeat it just for the sake of getting the truth out, the reasons I don't like the war are the 4500 dead soldiers/10's of thousands of soldiers permanently ravaged physically and or mentally/100,000 dead Iraqis/trillions of debt we'll never have paid/putting a Hezbollah-Iran ally at the head of the country/installing an apartheid regime that's forced 100,000 minority religion members to flee the country.

Now obviously by all your posts you don't give a damn about anything I outlined in line #3, but keep pretending your position is pro-america, pro-soldier and pro-Iraqi.

Drock I d not pretend anything, there is no more of a person against harming our fellow human than me
Saddam was all about harming
Its why we had no choice

and for the first time your response # 3 is an opinion I have no need nor desire nor reason to debate
fleeing the country?
Al Qaeda in Iraq claims massacre at Christian church in Baghdad - The Long War Journal
Al Qaeda Group Promises Attacks On Iraqi Christians - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
Iraq : al-Qaeda kill 46 Christians - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum
Al-Qaeda in Iraq threatens attacks on Christians - USATODAY.com
not sure why you ahve ignored these people and keep blaming the ones we are helping
thats your world of denial I guess

 

[Dr.Drock]

Jake there has been a total of 4-6 people who have lied there way thru this entir thread
Yes I have responded to you last few acts of desperation, but your on my ignore list
I just do not take what you say serious any more
your angry we won
your angry come to find out there was more about Iraq than you were told
That's why you and drock and Ibb are so mad about these events

Look its never been about anything but 1 thing
the truth
and the truth is if any-one lied it was Saddam
There was reasons in HR 1441 to invade
Congress agreed
Clinton agreed in 98 for the same reasons
It was the right thing to do
we won
some of the cost has been off set by less funding to the UN
bases being closed in Saudi and Kuwait
and as shown many times we were fighting Al Qaeda most of the time after 2003

its that simple
what is there to debunk?

dude you need to chill, stop being hateful towards me and anyone you dis agree with/ I am not the one who told you all of those lies

You have to invent reasons why we don't like the war, because the basic facts we put right in front of your face don't fit your already pre-thought out assumptions.

Let me correct you for the 1,000th time (probably literally) in these threads;

1.) Obviously, I'll never be mad about the U.S. winning a war military, despite your crazy hyperbole.
2.) No I haven't found out there was more in Iraq than the media says. The exact opposite is true, I've found out there was far less in Iraq than what our gov't (dems and reps alike) led us to believe in order to get some of the american public favoring warmongering in Iraq.
3.) And I know this will never sink in but I'll repeat it just for the sake of getting the truth out, the reasons I don't like the war are the 4500 dead soldiers/10's of thousands of soldiers permanently ravaged physically and or mentally/100,000 dead Iraqis/trillions of debt we'll never have paid/putting a Hezbollah-Iran ally at the head of the country/installing an apartheid regime that's forced 100,000 minority religion members to flee the country.

Now obviously by all your posts you don't give a damn about anything I outlined in line #3, but keep pretending your position is pro-america, pro-soldier and pro-Iraqi.

Drock I d not pretend anything, there is no more of a person against harming our fellow human than me
Saddam was all about harming
Its why we had no choice

and for the first time your response # 3 is an opinion I have no need nor desire nor reason to debate
fleeing the country?
Al Qaeda in Iraq claims massacre at Christian church in Baghdad - The Long War Journal
Al Qaeda Group Promises Attacks On Iraqi Christians - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
Iraq : al-Qaeda kill 46 Christians - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum
Al-Qaeda in Iraq threatens attacks on Christians - USATODAY.com
not sure why you ahve ignored these people and keep blaming the ones we are helping
thats your world of denial I guess

Every single thing I posted in #3 is a fact, not an opinion. You're just trying to discount facts that don't help you.

What christians in Iraq are getting help? They're fleeing a country they felt they were safe in under Saddam. Now that's run by a Hezbollah/Iranian agent who's our pal, they have to evacuate the country at never before seen rates.

Soon with the apartheid gov't we installed in Iraq, the christian population in Iraq will be zero. And that's what you call a success and stable.

 

[JRK]

You have to invent reasons why we don't like the war, because the basic facts we put right in front of your face don't fit your already pre-thought out assumptions.

Let me correct you for the 1,000th time (probably literally) in these threads;

1.) Obviously, I'll never be mad about the U.S. winning a war military, despite your crazy hyperbole.
2.) No I haven't found out there was more in Iraq than the media says. The exact opposite is true, I've found out there was far less in Iraq than what our gov't (dems and reps alike) led us to believe in order to get some of the american public favoring warmongering in Iraq.
3.) And I know this will never sink in but I'll repeat it just for the sake of getting the truth out, the reasons I don't like the war are the 4500 dead soldiers/10's of thousands of soldiers permanently ravaged physically and or mentally/100,000 dead Iraqis/trillions of debt we'll never have paid/putting a Hezbollah-Iran ally at the head of the country/installing an apartheid regime that's forced 100,000 minority religion members to flee the country.

Now obviously by all your posts you don't give a damn about anything I outlined in line #3, but keep pretending your position is pro-america, pro-soldier and pro-Iraqi.

Drock I d not pretend anything, there is no more of a person against harming our fellow human than me
Saddam was all about harming
Its why we had no choice

and for the first time your response # 3 is an opinion I have no need nor desire nor reason to debate
fleeing the country?
Al Qaeda in Iraq claims massacre at Christian church in Baghdad - The Long War Journal
Al Qaeda Group Promises Attacks On Iraqi Christians - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
Iraq : al-Qaeda kill 46 Christians - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum
Al-Qaeda in Iraq threatens attacks on Christians - USATODAY.com
not sure why you ahve ignored these people and keep blaming the ones we are helping
thats your world of denial I guess

Every single thing I posted in #3 is a fact, not an opinion. You're just trying to discount facts that don't help you.

What christians in Iraq are getting help? They're fleeing a country they felt they were safe in under Saddam. Now that's run by a Hezbollah/Iranian agent who's our pal, they have to evacuate the country at never before seen rates.

Soon with the apartheid gov't we installed in Iraq, the christian population in Iraq will be zero. And that's what you call a success and stable.

Drock your ignoring who it is that are harming the Christians
also the rest of you thread is about the same, chill out Drock
you were lied to, you were made a fool of and now that we won the I told you so argument is gone
and one other thing
trying to convince anyone Saddam was better than whats been voted to be in charge now is going to be tuff when Saddam killed 1 million of his own people it is alleged

Al Qaeda has killed about 100k sense they began to build up the forces in 02

It later emerged that [Abu Musab] al-Zarqawi, the deputy to bin Laden, had come to Iraq in May 2002, had had meetings with senior Iraqis and established a presence there in October 2002. This intelligence has not been withdrawn, by the way. Probably we should have paid more attention to its significance, but we were so keen not to make a false claim about al Qaeda and Saddam that we somewhat understated it, at least on the British side.
Former CIA director George Tenet reveals in his own autobiography, At the Center of the Storm, some of the intelligence that backed up Powell’s presentation. More than one dozen other al Qaeda terrorists had joined Zarqawi in Baghdad. One of them was an Egyptian known as Abu Ayyub al Masri, who had served Osama bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri, since the 1980s. After Zarqawi was killed in 2006, al Masri took his place as the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Al Masri himself was killed earlier this year, and his widow confirmed that they had moved to central Baghdad in 2002.

Al Qaeda in Iraq | The Weekly Standard

Why do you keep ignoring this stuff?

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK continues to deny that the OP is fail.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK, telling you correctly that you are wrong, have been wrong, your "evidence" and position will continue to be wrong -- that is not hateful, simply the truth.

I doubt you have ever been engaged in critical thinking exercises where you suspend personal bias to examine all evidence. If you have and are still saying you are right, then you are immoral because the evidence clearly rebuts your positions.

Your fail is only on you, JRK, for you are the hater to continue with is lie.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Drock I d not pretend anything, there is no more of a person against harming our fellow human than me
Saddam was all about harming
Its why we had no choice

and for the first time your response # 3 is an opinion I have no need nor desire nor reason to debate
fleeing the country?
Al Qaeda in Iraq claims massacre at Christian church in Baghdad - The Long War Journal
Al Qaeda Group Promises Attacks On Iraqi Christians - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
Iraq : al-Qaeda kill 46 Christians - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum
Al-Qaeda in Iraq threatens attacks on Christians - USATODAY.com
not sure why you ahve ignored these people and keep blaming the ones we are helping
thats your world of denial I guess

Every single thing I posted in #3 is a fact, not an opinion. You're just trying to discount facts that don't help you.

What christians in Iraq are getting help? They're fleeing a country they felt they were safe in under Saddam. Now that's run by a Hezbollah/Iranian agent who's our pal, they have to evacuate the country at never before seen rates.

Soon with the apartheid gov't we installed in Iraq, the christian population in Iraq will be zero. And that's what you call a success and stable.

Drock your ignoring who it is that are harming the Christians
also the rest of you thread is about the same, chill out Drock
you were lied to, you were made a fool of and now that we won the I told you so argument is gone
and one other thing
trying to convince anyone Saddam was better than whats been voted to be in charge now is going to be tuff when Saddam killed 1 million of his own people it is alleged

Al Qaeda has killed about 100k sense they began to build up the forces in 02

It later emerged that [Abu Musab] al-Zarqawi, the deputy to bin Laden, had come to Iraq in May 2002, had had meetings with senior Iraqis and established a presence there in October 2002. This intelligence has not been withdrawn, by the way. Probably we should have paid more attention to its significance, but we were so keen not to make a false claim about al Qaeda and Saddam that we somewhat understated it, at least on the British side.
Former CIA director George Tenet reveals in his own autobiography, At the Center of the Storm, some of the intelligence that backed up Powell’s presentation. More than one dozen other al Qaeda terrorists had joined Zarqawi in Baghdad. One of them was an Egyptian known as Abu Ayyub al Masri, who had served Osama bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri, since the 1980s. After Zarqawi was killed in 2006, al Masri took his place as the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Al Masri himself was killed earlier this year, and his widow confirmed that they had moved to central Baghdad in 2002.

Al Qaeda in Iraq | The Weekly Standard

Why do you keep ignoring this stuff?

Why would an Iraqi christian give a damn who's killing him whether it's gov't or Al-Qaeda? If they don't, why should I give a damn?

Here's the facts, they're evacuating at a rate far higher than they did under Saddam. How can this be if the country is stable as you say? Why would Iraqi christians flee a stable country in order to run to bordering nations like Iran/Saudi Arabia/Syria? (I'm certain you'll dodge that question)

You understand I, or anyone, could provide you 100 links that state there was no Iraq and Al-Qaeda connection for every 1 link you find that shows a connection, right?

 

[JRK]

JRK, telling you correctly that you are wrong, have been wrong, your "evidence" and position will continue to be wrong -- that is not hateful, simply the truth.

I doubt you have ever been engaged in critical thinking exercises where you suspend personal bias to examine all evidence. If you have and are still saying you are right, then you are immoral because the evidence clearly rebuts your positions.

Your fail is only on you, JRK, for you are the hater to continue with is lie.

Jake we have lost 6 million jobs sense 2008
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
now that truth and the the truth that is the same info such as Al Qaeda being in Iraq before we invaded is not my truth
Its just the truth

thats all

 

[kaz]

The day people stop flying passenger jets into skyscrapers, we will get out of the removing of terror and terror supporting groups from the ME

That explains our attacking al Qaeda and the Taliban, which I already supported.

It does not explain our presence across the rest of the middle east, why we are trying to engage in nation building in afghanistan or government securing oil supplies rather then the private market doing it.

 

[JRK]

The day people stop flying passenger jets into skyscrapers, we will get out of the removing of terror and terror supporting groups from the ME

That explains our attacking al Qaeda and the Taliban, which I already supported.

It does not explain our presence across the rest of the middle east, why we are trying to engage in nation building in afghanistan or government securing oil supplies rather then the private market doing it.

Were are we at in the remainder of the ME?
we have weeks left in Iraq and that victory will be complete
we are out of Saudi, thanks to removing Saddam
And we have to be close to being out of Kuwait, Thanks to removing Saddam

and as far oil goes, we have far more oil right here than we need. we are not allowed tio touch it (I think that's about to change)

 

[JRK]

The oil in Iraq lie has about run its course also
3%?
U.S. HAS MASSIVE OIL

 

[JRK]

The oil in Iraq lie has about run its course also
3%?
U.S. HAS MASSIVE OIL

 

[Dr.Drock]

The oil in Iraq lie has about run its course also
3%?
U.S. HAS MASSIVE OIL

From your article (which i'm sure is another one of your links you neglected to read);

NOT REALLY OIL

Technically, it is not really oil at this stage, say geologists. It’s kerogen—sort of an oil-like substance that, when heated in an expensive, laborious process, can be turned into a lower-grade oil, which can then be used in cars.

Walter Youngquist, a geologist from Eugene, Ore., published an article on the web site of the World Energy Council which delves into this subject. Youngquist put it this way:

The term “oil shale” is a misnomer. It does not contain oil nor is it commonly shale. The organic material is chiefly kerogen, and the “shale” is usually a relatively hard rock, called marl. Properly processed, kerogen can be converted into a substance somewhat similar to petroleum. However, it has not gone through the “oil window” of heat (nature’s way of producing oil) and therefore, to be changed into an oil-like substance, it must be heated to a high temperature. By this process the organic material is converted into a liquid, which must be further processed to produce an oil which is said to be better than the lowest grade of oil produced from conventional oil deposits, but of lower quality than the upper grades of conventional oil.

There are currently two main processes for refining shale oil, both of which are capital and labor intensive. In one method, the shale is broken down on-site and heated. The gases and liquids can then be extracted. In the second, the shale oil is removed and transported to facilities where it is then heated and refined.

Now i agree with you that we should be letting oil companies try and purchase these lands privately if they feel it fits into their bottom line, but this isn't even close to evidence for why oil wasn't a reason we invaded Iraq.

 

[kaz]

The day people stop flying passenger jets into skyscrapers, we will get out of the removing of terror and terror supporting groups from the ME

That explains our attacking al Qaeda and the Taliban, which I already supported.

It does not explain our presence across the rest of the middle east, why we are trying to engage in nation building in afghanistan or government securing oil supplies rather then the private market doing it.

Were are we at in the remainder of the ME?
we have weeks left in Iraq and that victory will be complete
we are out of Saudi, thanks to removing Saddam
And we have to be close to being out of Kuwait, Thanks to removing Saddam

and as far oil goes, we have far more oil right here than we need. we are not allowed tio touch it (I think that's about to change)

Wow, a little hand waving and suddenly we aren't in the middle east and oil isn't a problem. That's some serious twisting, don't hurt yourself there...

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK, telling you correctly that you are wrong, have been wrong, your "evidence" and position will continue to be wrong -- that is not hateful, simply the truth.

I doubt you have ever been engaged in critical thinking exercises where you suspend personal bias to examine all evidence. If you have and are still saying you are right, then you are immoral because the evidence clearly rebuts your positions.

Your fail is only on you, JRK, for you are the hater to continue with is lie.

Jake we have lost 6 million jobs sense 2008
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
now that truth and the the truth that is the same info such as Al Qaeda being in Iraq before we invaded is not my truth
Its just the truth thats all

You don't know what is the truth, son. That's the issue here. Your neo-con rightwing progressive imperialism helped to bust our economy for no real good in the Middle East.

Your OP has fallen apart and cannot be put back together.

You need to stand up, admit you are in error, and then go about fixing it.

 

[JRK]

That explains our attacking al Qaeda and the Taliban, which I already supported.

It does not explain our presence across the rest of the middle east, why we are trying to engage in nation building in afghanistan or government securing oil supplies rather then the private market doing it.

Were are we at in the remainder of the ME?
we have weeks left in Iraq and that victory will be complete
we are out of Saudi, thanks to removing Saddam
And we have to be close to being out of Kuwait, Thanks to removing Saddam

and as far oil goes, we have far more oil right here than we need. we are not allowed tio touch it (I think that's about to change)

Wow, a little hand waving and suddenly we aren't in the middle east and oil isn't a problem. That's some serious twisting, don't hurt yourself there...

Is that the best you can do?
you make some accusations that are baseless, I respond, did it hurt your feelings?
I never said we are not in the ME
Our oil problem is a result of the EPA a hell of allot more than anything else
U.S. HAS MASSIVE OIL

 

[JakeStarkey]

The US has massive oil is no excuse for invading Iraq. The two are unconnected except in JRK's head. We should not have invaded. We won the military battle in three weeks, then lost the peace over the next eight years, which we are proceeding to do in Afghanistan. This has been the greatest foreign disaster in American history.

 

[kaz]

Were are we at in the remainder of the ME?
we have weeks left in Iraq and that victory will be complete
we are out of Saudi, thanks to removing Saddam
And we have to be close to being out of Kuwait, Thanks to removing Saddam

and as far oil goes, we have far more oil right here than we need. we are not allowed tio touch it (I think that's about to change)

Wow, a little hand waving and suddenly we aren't in the middle east and oil isn't a problem. That's some serious twisting, don't hurt yourself there...

Is that the best you can do?
you make some accusations that are baseless, I respond, did it hurt your feelings?
I never said we are not in the ME
Our oil problem is a result of the EPA a hell of allot more than anything else
U.S. HAS MASSIVE OIL

Don't cry, I had to tease you since nothing you posted countered what I said.

How does our having massive oil counter my point government should not be securing oil supplies? I said we don't belong in the middle east and you said we are winning wars over there. I said we shouldn't be nation building and you didn't address that at all. You're too funny. Do you actually have an argument against any of my points or you do you just like making it sound like you do?