Why we want stimulus now and worry about deficits later

[Oddball]

Yep, inflation drives up interest rates down the road with this much debt and Greece will look tame compared to the US.

Problem being is that we're up to our armpits in inflation and the Fed rate is 0%...Yet the only answer we get from the neo-Keynesian witch doctors is to inflate the shit out of the currency even more.

Dude, the central planners are out of bullets.

 

[francoHFW]

People who watch Fox and Rush should change the channel and hear the recovery is accelerating. Inflation is VERY moderate...

 

[ilia25]

People who watch Fox and Rush should change the channel and hear the recovery is accelerating. Inflation is VERY moderate...

Those dimwits just can't take facts for what they are. The inflation can only take off when we have low unemployment and workers start demanding a rise.

 

[saveliberty]

People who watch Fox and Rush should change the channel and hear the recovery is accelerating. Inflation is VERY moderate...

Those dimwits just can't take facts for what they are. The inflation can only take off when we have low unemployment and workers start demanding a rise.

Ever hear of stagflation? Inflation can be driven by more than wages. What limited capacity for economics you have.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You may or may not have heard that there was a helluva lot of spending that went on, over and above the baseline projections of 1992, that happened between that date and 2002.

Try reading for comprehension next time.

So the trend predictions are useless since no one can predict events that might have a major impact on revenues/spending?

No shit. So why did you bring them up?

Completely irrelevant to the claim of Bubba's tax increase being responsible for the mythical balanced budget and fake "surplus".

The nut of the matter is that the baselines were fairly closely followed in the '90s, to the point that the budget ended up being projected to come into balance by 2002 in 1998, had those baselines been adhered to.

Next stupid diversionary argument?

Revenues FELL in 2001 and 2002.

 

[ilia25]

People who watch Fox and Rush should change the channel and hear the recovery is accelerating. Inflation is VERY moderate...

Those dimwits just can't take facts for what they are. The inflation can only take off when we have low unemployment and workers start demanding a rise.

Ever hear of stagflation? Inflation can be driven by more than wages. What limited capacity for economics you have.

The wages WERE rising fast during stagflation. And no, the only thing that can drive a sustained inflation is the growing wages resulting from low unemployment.

 

[saveliberty]

Those dimwits just can't take facts for what they are. The inflation can only take off when we have low unemployment and workers start demanding a rise.

Ever hear of stagflation? Inflation can be driven by more than wages. What limited capacity for economics you have.

The wages WERE rising fast during stagflation. And no, the only thing that can drive a sustained inflation is the growing wages resulting from low unemployment.

In economics, stagflation is a situation in which the inflation rate is high and the economic growth rate slows down and unemployment remains steadily high.

Stagflation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would wages rise if unemployment is high ilia? You are talking trash now.

Note: Looks like desperation time, better call me an idiot quick.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I know one thing. Reagan and Bush41 borrowed $3 trillion 1980's dollars to fund their tax cuts for the wealthy. Give me that much money and I could fix anything.

That still doesn't explain California, run by liberal Democrats who chose to look to higher income and corporate tax rates (at a rate higher than most states) to solve their debt. Care to explain what happened to this philosphy / ideology of increased taxes on the wealthy bringing down the debt with California? That way of liberal thinking doesn't appear to show any hope of working on a growing debt, I wonder why liberals believe running the Federal Government that way will prove to be different?

Oh...did you notice that at the end of each Republican run they left a higher unemployment rate than what they assumed

Well it IS rather interesting how Obama likes to use Republicans when comparing himself to past presidents like Lincoln and Reagan. Have you seen HIS current unemployment rate compared to when he first entered office? It never went below 7.8%, in fact it never got to even reached to that 8% he in fact boasted the Stimulus would be set out to accomplish.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

.

Holy crap, comparing the recession of the early 80's to this monster is - what's a civil term here - ill-advised. Hmph, that's not a very appropriate term, but I think I'll leave it at that.

Come on, if we're going to pretend this is/was just another economic blip on the long-term map, then perhaps we should be discussing sports or knitting or cat food. Such a notion is absolutely absurd, and to claim that another approach would have had us up and running full speed by now is an exercise in either abject ignorance or pure politics. I suspect the latter. The world economy has suffered a blow it has never suffered before, not even close. It took decades of stupidity to get us here, it could easily take decades to get us out.

Jeez, are we supposed to be taking this kind of thought seriously?

.

Don't burst their bubble. It's what Fox News teaches their sheep. This thing came so close to total financial disaster that there's no telling if we would have ever recovered from it.

Don't concern yourself with the notion of financial disasters yet, President Obama is not done with his Federal Government spending spree policies. Give him time we might end up like Greece, with a national debt that threatens the country's financial future with further down grades from the international credit rating. The United States already has seen it's first historic downgrade under his administration due to the increasing spending debt (twice the amount of spending we saw under President George W. Bush).

 

[Oddball]

So the trend predictions are useless since no one can predict events that might have a major impact on revenues/spending?

No shit. So why did you bring them up?

Completely irrelevant to the claim of Bubba's tax increase being responsible for the mythical balanced budget and fake "surplus".

The nut of the matter is that the baselines were fairly closely followed in the '90s, to the point that the budget ended up being projected to come into balance by 2002 in 1998, had those baselines been adhered to.

Next stupid diversionary argument?

Revenues FELL in 2001 and 2002.

Uh-huh...Then they went back up to near record levels shortly afterward...Problem is that spending continued going wild, as was also predicted back in '92.

Of course, none of this presents a single shred of evidence that the Clintoon tax increase was any significant factor in creating the illusory balanced budget, as it was projected in 1998....Which was the original point, from which you've been desperately attempting to divert.

 

[peach174]

The Feds need to do the same thing that Puerto Rico's Gov. Did.
They are really thriving now, and in just a few short years.

Puerto Rico's Gov. Fortuno Slashes Deficit

 

[Lovebears65]

Just like every typical dem, Lets not worry how much debt we are in now . Lets pass it on to our children or grandchildren who had nothing to do with this mess

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

.

Holy crap, comparing the recession of the early 80's to this monster is - what's a civil term here - ill-advised. Hmph, that's not a very appropriate term, but I think I'll leave it at that.

Come on, if we're going to pretend this is/was just another economic blip on the long-term map, then perhaps we should be discussing sports or knitting or cat food. Such a notion is absolutely absurd, and to claim that another approach would have had us up and running full speed by now is an exercise in either abject ignorance or pure politics. I suspect the latter. The world economy has suffered a blow it has never suffered before, not even close. It took decades of stupidity to get us here, it could easily take decades to get us out.

Jeez, are we supposed to be taking this kind of thought seriously?

.

You're right. In the 1980s we had desperately high inflation and equally high unemployment. We faced new and strong competition in what had been American monopoly industries like steel and autos. Recall the Misery Index?
Obama stumbled onto an economy that was basically sound (10 years of low inflation and unemployment) and managed to gin it up into a crisis. He has made this the worst recovery in history despite (or because of) record spending and meddling with the economy. Had he done absolutely nothing but played golf every day we would have seen unemployment about 6% today. Instead it is higher than when he took office 3 yewars ago.
So you are correct there is no comparison between the two. 1980s recession was far worse. Fortunately we had Ronald Reagan for president so he laid the groundwork for the longest post war expansion until then. SOmethng Clinton benefitted from.
Thanks for pointing out that they were different. I knew you weren't a total buffoon.

You seem to have completely forgotten the autumn of 2008. Here's a little something to jog your memory:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA]President Bush Addresses Nation on Economic Crisis - YouTube[/ame]

Yes unfortunately I do remember some of the failed steps that helped get us into this economic mess too.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sKpzmojjfU]Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) - No Crisis at Fannie Mae - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJmwue2hY-8]Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac + Economic Crisis - YouTube[/ame]

 

[thereisnospoon]

The chart above shows a deeply depressed economy. The US still produce about 1 trillion less in annual GDP than they are capable of. Not only it results in a lot of human suffering, but it also starves the government of tax revenues, creating huge budget deficits.

Therefore we need more stimulus to help the economy closing the gap (which basically means creating more jobs) -- because it will also reduce the deficits.

Bull crap. The first two stim bills cost us almost one trillion dollars and neither worked. Just one more chance? Not a chance.
Your side has wasted enough of our hard earned dollars chasing red herrings.
Slash government spending. Put the money in the pockets of the private sector and let the damned economy fix itself like always has in the past.
Government screws up things 100% of the time.

 

[ilia25]

Ever hear of stagflation? Inflation can be driven by more than wages. What limited capacity for economics you have.

The wages WERE rising fast during stagflation. And no, the only thing that can drive a sustained inflation is the growing wages resulting from low unemployment.

In economics, stagflation is a situation in which the inflation rate is high and the economic growth rate slows down and unemployment remains steadily high.

Stagflation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would wages rise if unemployment is high ilia? You are talking trash now.

Note: Looks like desperation time, better call me an idiot quick.

Unemployment was not all that high in the 70s, although they marked an era of low productivity growth (which continued well into 90s). The terms stagflation is misleading. It refers to a period when the policy makers made unsuccessful attempts to lower the unemployment below its natural level with higher inflation -- which, of course, did not work well.

And it has nothing to do with the current situation.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The stimulus worked, dimwits. So well the economy grew for 30 months straight, even with Pubs fear mongering and paralyzing the whole time, and is now accelerating. A small infrastructure stimulus and no cost pushes on bankers like Obama has asked for should be enough now, or just no MORE "crises" caused by Pub BS will do...

Underemployment Rate
On Jan 7, 2010 underemployment stood at 19.4%
The best Obama and the liberals saw was in Dec 2, 2010 when underemployment was at 17.10%
The current underemployment rate for feb 13 is now at 19.10%

US Underemployment Rate Chart and Data - YCharts


Misery Index
The misery index for Jan 2009 was 7.83%
The lowest that rate stood under the Obama administration was in June 2009 at 8.07%
The misery index only increased since then to a long term average of 10%
The misery index on Jan 2012 is at 11.23%

US Misery Index Chart and Data - YCharts



I fail to see any "facts" showing improvement due to the stimulus, based upon these economic trends.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The last stimulus was $1 trillion and it failed.

It did not fail, it stopped the economy from sliding deeper into recession.

That's the White House version whch was spoon fed to the MSM.
American people are generally results oriented. We want the "beef"...
With the stimulus, we got veggies but no meat.
We will not be taken in again by Washington tomfoolery.

 

[ilia25]

The chart above shows a deeply depressed economy. The US still produce about 1 trillion less in annual GDP than they are capable of. Not only it results in a lot of human suffering, but it also starves the government of tax revenues, creating huge budget deficits.

Therefore we need more stimulus to help the economy closing the gap (which basically means creating more jobs) -- because it will also reduce the deficits.

Bull crap. The first two stim bills cost us almost one trillion dollars and neither worked. Just one more chance? Not a chance.
Your side has wasted enough of our hard earned dollars chasing red herrings.
Slash government spending. Put the money in the pockets of the private sector and let the damned economy fix itself like always has in the past.
Government screws up things 100% of the time.

Repeating silly slogans won't help a bit.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Now is the WRONG time to be worrying about deficits. When you're having a heart attack, costs are secondary.

Oh please.
Look, it impossible for government to spend the country into prosperity.
Prosperity, success and a robust economy comes from the private sector and the greatness of the American people. Government stands in the way of all of that.
You people on the left have allowed yourselves to be marginalized, herded into a group and told it's "us against them".
Why don't you people come on in for the big win? For once show up and support the whole team instead of your political agenda.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The chart above shows a deeply depressed economy. The US still produce about 1 trillion less in annual GDP than they are capable of. Not only it results in a lot of human suffering, but it also starves the government of tax revenues, creating huge budget deficits.

Therefore we need more stimulus to help the economy closing the gap (which basically means creating more jobs) -- because it will also reduce the deficits.

How does the government spend more, which automatically increases the debt, decrease the debt.

By making the economy growing so fast that the permanent increase in the government revenues would quickly outpace the temporary rise in spending.

HA! Hey mr Wishful thinking, there is no such thing as "temporary government spending".
I cannot believe any reasonably intelligent person could believe in the existence of temporary government spending or a temporary tax.
Please stop the nonsense.