Why teachers need more pay

[Unkotare]

Colleges DO look at GPA, among all other criteria.

 

[anotherlife]

Not only Finland, but this has been the system all over east Europe too, including the former Soviet Union. It is the case too here in Africa. This may be very well the reason why as many as 24 countries do better in school than the USA.

Hey are all you guys reading this?? I'm not making this crap up! I've read about school systems all over the world. We are the only moronic school system that promotes people regardless of their GPA. We're the only system in the world that has a no-child-left-behind-no-matter-how-they-do idiotic ideology.

Maybe but I think Great Britain is even stupider. The other year, They suddenly changed the high school diploma test which is nationalized in that country. But they didn't print any study books or exercise materials, nor did they notify teachers about it. So the GPA of the entire country fell by like 1.9 suddenly in that year. So America is not the stupidest of all.

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

 

[SweetSue92]

Don't tell my fellow conservatives any of this, of course. They either don't care, will just blame teachers more, or--as one in this thread did--say too bad for these kids, they're not mine so I don't care.

The conservative take on education makes me often ashamed. Even though I would never, ever go back to being a liberal (and I have some years behind this conversion: I haven't voted Dem since the late 90s). It's one thing to think the public schools are horrid or whatever. It's another to just not give a flip about kids that are in terrible situations there, or that teachers in those situations are regularly threatened, abused and worse.

Well the issue is, the teachers unions speak for teachers.... You can say "they don't speak for me!" but the fact is, the teachers unions stand up in the media and attack Republicans.

Additionally, the teachers unions do in fact, defend bad teachers. It just is true. The rubber rooms of New York are a perfect example. There is actually a documentary on "The Rubber Room".
Amazon.com: Watch Rubber Room | Prime Video

And lastly, the universal fix for all things school related, by both teachers and teachers unions... is more money.

They never have any other fix. I have never once heard a teacher say "We need to eliminate bad students", or "we need to change how we educate!"... or anything. It's always "we need more money". And we now have the most expensive education system in the world, and things are worse now than ever before.

Yet the fix is still the same... "We need more money! We need to pay teachers more!".

So naturally right-wingers and conservatives, and Republicans, don't like the teachers, and teachers unions.

Worse, every time Conservatives, Republicans, and right-leaning people come up with a helpful solution, the teachers and teachers unions start screaming and oppose it.

Charter schools and private schools, are better than public schools. There is no question. They use less money, and have better educational outcomes. Yet the teachers and teachers unions, have opposed this at every single turn.

They would rather doom kids to crappy education, at drug infested, chaos driven schools.... than have parents able to get a better education for their kids, at schools not controlled by the teachers unions or government.

So, yeah.... there is some real hatred and disdain for public school teachers and their unions.

I'm with you on the unions. I'm sure they started out by being helpful; by helping teachers not live by ridiculous rules and etc. But now they're a political apparatus. I don't belong to mine, which is....contentious, you might say. But there it is.

You're just wrong that we think the solution is always more money. We do talk about these things.

Secondly, part of the reason private and (some) charter schools do well is they do not take on behavior, emotional, or learning disabled children. They self-select only the best. Listen, if the public schools could do that, you'd better believe we'd do better. That and their parents are all motivated.

I'm not opposed to vouchers, but you best believe if the private schools accept them, they ALSO have to accept a cross section of children. If they accept tax dollars, they must accept taxpayers children...ALL of them. And then we will see what happens to their scores.

I'm not going to argue with your experience. I'm just saying that I personally have not heard teachers give any other answer. Which is true. I personally have never heard a teacher say anything other than... more money.

So if you have some solutions, I'd love to hear it. What solutions have teachers given?

Secondly, part of the reason private and (some) charter schools do well is they do not take on behavior, emotional, or learning disabled children. They self-select only the best. Listen, if the public schools could do that, you'd better believe we'd do better. That and their parents are all motivated.

Well yeah. Of course. What is your point? You do realize that Finland does this? Most of Europe, does this. Students that are crap, are kicked out. Thus they do better at educating.

Whether are you are a top end teacher, mid-level, or low-level teacher..... you will be able to teach better, if problem-kids are removed. This is why in Japan, students that don't make the cut, do not move up. High end schools, don't take non-high-end students. If you can't make the scores needed to go to top high-school, or college... then you simply don't go. You either stay in that school until you qualify, or you drop out.

So yes! Exactly! Private schools do better because they don't take problem kids. Kids are there to learn, not there to cause problems and distract all the kids trying to learn.

Additionally, it is absolutely true that people who have to pay for the education of their children, are motivated to see that they are getting their monies worth. Yeah, exactly. Which is entirely why public schools should be eliminated. People do not respect stuff, that they pay nothing for, and believe they are entitled to.

I'm not opposed to vouchers, but you best believe if the private schools accept them, they ALSO have to accept a cross section of children. If they accept tax dollars, they must accept taxpayers children...ALL of them. And then we will see what happens to their scores.

No, of course not. The whole "no child left behind", is the very reason we have a failing system.

So no, the entire point... the WHOLE THING.... is to get away from the regulations and rules, that is causing our system to fail.

There is nothing more stupid, than to drag the same bad rules and regulations, that caused the old system to fail, and apply it to a new system, and then be shocked it fails too.

The whole point... is to get away from the bad system.

Then this is simple: do not compare foreign, private, or charter schools to public schools.

That makes no sense. The job of a public school is to educate. The job of a private or charter school is to educate. Why would we not compare?

You have two systems. One sucks. One works. Should you not compare the two to see what differences between the systems, cause what outcomes?

Are you saying that we should not compare the US public school system to any other school system on the planet? Because nearly all other school systems, kick out bad students, like private and charter schools.

That sounds like a method of avoiding the flaws in the system, in order to maintain a bad system.

In short, you are basically saying exactly what I claimed teachers and teachers unions have been saying.
Is that unfair? Why would you say that otherwise? Other than to maintain a terrible system?

If I am misreading your post, feel free to correct me.

Do you need me to explain this to you?

It's like a car company bragging about how the average top speed of their vehicles is 150 mph. Okay, says the Other Company, but they're all luxury cars. We make mopeds. Throw some of those in. But the first company says, we don't make mopeds, we only make luxury cars and won't take mopeds.

Then you can't compare them, can you? If the first company made mopeds, the average speed would go DOWN. But they don't. So they brag about their speed outcomes. Exactly as you have said---just get rid of the bad performers and magically, you're a top performing school.

This is not difficult.

 

[SweetSue92]

Not only Finland, but this has been the system all over east Europe too, including the former Soviet Union. It is the case too here in Africa. This may be very well the reason why as many as 24 countries do better in school than the USA.

Hey are all you guys reading this?? I'm not making this crap up! I've read about school systems all over the world. We are the only moronic school system that promotes people regardless of their GPA. We're the only system in the world that has a no-child-left-behind-no-matter-how-they-do idiotic ideology.

Maybe but I think Great Britain is even stupider. The other year, They suddenly changed the high school diploma test which is nationalized in that country. But they didn't print any study books or exercise materials, nor did they notify teachers about it. So the GPA of the entire country fell by like 1.9 suddenly in that year. So America is not the stupidest of all.

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

 

[SweetSue92]

How do you know that most teachers don't teach because they "love kids and love teaching"? How do you know most do it simply for the paycheck?

Where are your stats or your surveys on this...or are you just making crap up?

Is there anything wrong with doing your job for nothing but your paycheck only? It may be easier if you also like your job, but you don't have to, you just have to do it and do it to an acceptable quality.

And these are all supposedly conservative republican teachers.

Until it comes to their collective bargaining power and job protections. Most of the teachers I know don’t like being treated like an employee who could lose their job if the school doesn’t want them there anymore. For whatever reason.

Welcome to the world the rest of us live in. We have no job security, no pensions, no collective bargaining and we can and do get fired. Teachers have to do something horrible to be fired. Tenure

The problem goes back to taxation. Teacher tenures are possible because all their monies are from your tax. And you are not legally allowed to stop paying your taxes to them. And if you dare propose a tax reduction for next year, then they threaten you with closing their kindergarten services, slashing 10 % down the sales value of your property. A vicious circle. Any ideas how to break it?

Tenure protects teachers from being fired for personal, political, or other non-work related reasons. Before tenure, teachers could be dismissed when a new political party took power or a principal wanted to make room to hire his friends.

The common complain about tenure is that it's difficult to fire poor performing teachers. That's true but my experience has been that all but the smallest school districts have ways of handling poor performing teachers. Really bad teachers are often the result of a wrong choice of career. Offering a non-instruction job sometimes works. In most districts if a principal wants get rid of you they can. There are always ways, transfers, rotations, and special jobs.

Having a situation in which districts fire teachers to lower taxes is a sure route to poorer educational performance.

Here is an example of how tenure works exactly like you said. In Florida, I was teacher for 8 years, had tenure and belonged to the union. When I received my Master's degree in Educational Leadership, my principal selected me to fill a vacant Assistant Principal role. About three months later, the principal's father passed away leaving him a $9 million estate, so he retired. The district hired a new principal to start the next school year who was pregnant with twins and had just recovered from a difficult pregnancy the year before that nearly killed her. She missed the vast majority of the school year, and we ran the school very well in her absence. When she finally returned, with about three months to go in the school year, she became very jealous of my reputation for enforcing discipline in the school with our district superiors.

Towards the end of school, I received an email from the district with the opportunities for promotion for the next school year. Guess whose name was on it as leaving? Me!

She didn't even have the guts to tell me that my contract was not being renewed. Later that afternoon, she sent me an email telling me I was no longer going to have a job there. She sent an email! She never spoke to me again the remainder of the school year and I worked until the end of June. The coop de grace was that she hired her best friend who was an administrator in a another school to take my place.

That is the kind of crap that teachers who do not have tenure still have to tolerate today!

The good news is that the remained of the staff saw what she did to me and she was removed at the end of the following school year.

There are too many admins like this in schools. They are truly horrible. The stories are legion.

 

[anotherlife]

Not only Finland, but this has been the system all over east Europe too, including the former Soviet Union. It is the case too here in Africa. This may be very well the reason why as many as 24 countries do better in school than the USA.

Hey are all you guys reading this?? I'm not making this crap up! I've read about school systems all over the world. We are the only moronic school system that promotes people regardless of their GPA. We're the only system in the world that has a no-child-left-behind-no-matter-how-they-do idiotic ideology.

Maybe but I think Great Britain is even stupider. The other year, They suddenly changed the high school diploma test which is nationalized in that country. But they didn't print any study books or exercise materials, nor did they notify teachers about it. So the GPA of the entire country fell by like 1.9 suddenly in that year. So America is not the stupidest of all.

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

 

[SweetSue92]

Hey are all you guys reading this?? I'm not making this crap up! I've read about school systems all over the world. We are the only moronic school system that promotes people regardless of their GPA. We're the only system in the world that has a no-child-left-behind-no-matter-how-they-do idiotic ideology.

Maybe but I think Great Britain is even stupider. The other year, They suddenly changed the high school diploma test which is nationalized in that country. But they didn't print any study books or exercise materials, nor did they notify teachers about it. So the GPA of the entire country fell by like 1.9 suddenly in that year. So America is not the stupidest of all.

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

Your belief that all school teachers are there to "indoctrinate" children is faith-based. You have no evidence for it and simply believe what you have been told, the select stories you have read. It's like a religion for conservatives--red meat for the base.

I say this as a conservative evangelical Christian who teaches in the public schools, but does not belong to the union.

It's hogwash, in short, what you believe. Take me, for example

 

[anotherlife]

Maybe but I think Great Britain is even stupider. The other year, They suddenly changed the high school diploma test which is nationalized in that country. But they didn't print any study books or exercise materials, nor did they notify teachers about it. So the GPA of the entire country fell by like 1.9 suddenly in that year. So America is not the stupidest of all.

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

Your belief that all school teachers are there to "indoctrinate" children is faith-based. You have no evidence for it and simply believe what you have been told, the select stories you have read. It's like a religion for conservatives--red meat for the base.

I say this as a conservative evangelical Christian who teaches in the public schools, but does not belong to the union.

It's hogwash, in short, what you believe. Take me, for example

But I do see signs of indoctrination. For example, the push that you can be anything you want, or that you are gay, or that the government is for your service.

 

[SweetSue92]

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

Your belief that all school teachers are there to "indoctrinate" children is faith-based. You have no evidence for it and simply believe what you have been told, the select stories you have read. It's like a religion for conservatives--red meat for the base.

I say this as a conservative evangelical Christian who teaches in the public schools, but does not belong to the union.

It's hogwash, in short, what you believe. Take me, for example

But I do see signs of indoctrination. For example, the push that you can be anything you want, or that you are gay, or that the government is for your service.

"Signs of indoctrination" is not even close to the absolute crap you have been spouting on this thread.

So who's shoveling bs? Teachers in public schools, or conservatives lying about it?

 

[anotherlife]

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

Your belief that all school teachers are there to "indoctrinate" children is faith-based. You have no evidence for it and simply believe what you have been told, the select stories you have read. It's like a religion for conservatives--red meat for the base.

I say this as a conservative evangelical Christian who teaches in the public schools, but does not belong to the union.

It's hogwash, in short, what you believe. Take me, for example

But I do see signs of indoctrination. For example, the push that you can be anything you want, or that you are gay, or that the government is for your service.

"Signs of indoctrination" is not even close to the absolute crap you have been spouting on this thread.

So who's shoveling bs? Teachers in public schools, or conservatives lying about it?

It is not crap, but a fact, that teacher unions control property taxes, therefore extorting a blank check for their pension plans yearly.

Your liberal democrat indoctrination prevents you from seeing this obvious problem.

 

[SweetSue92]

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

Your belief that all school teachers are there to "indoctrinate" children is faith-based. You have no evidence for it and simply believe what you have been told, the select stories you have read. It's like a religion for conservatives--red meat for the base.

I say this as a conservative evangelical Christian who teaches in the public schools, but does not belong to the union.

It's hogwash, in short, what you believe. Take me, for example

But I do see signs of indoctrination. For example, the push that you can be anything you want, or that you are gay, or that the government is for your service.

"Signs of indoctrination" is not even close to the absolute crap you have been spouting on this thread.

So who's shoveling bs? Teachers in public schools, or conservatives lying about it?

It is not crap, but a fact, that teacher unions control property taxes, therefore extorting a blank check for their pension plans yearly.

Your liberal democrat indoctrination prevents you from seeing this obvious problem.

I am not a liberal democrat. I am a conservative. I never vote Democrat, only Republican. Don't love all Republicans but loathe Democrat policies, so much that I quit the union over it years ago. I belong instead to a Christian teachers' union. And in my state, teachers unions do not control property taxes--I have no idea what you're talking about.

You have taken a few stories about indoctrination in very liberal areas and extrapolated that to the whole nation. Do you really think teachers in anytown, Kansas or Alabama or North Dakota are indoctrinating their students into liberal policies--or that anyone has time for this? Really?

 

[anotherlife]

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Are you an opponent of catholic schools? Well catholic schools don't tax you. Government indoctrination schools do. And you get nothing for it. You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

Are you a bigoted atheist, dear?

Your belief that all school teachers are there to "indoctrinate" children is faith-based. You have no evidence for it and simply believe what you have been told, the select stories you have read. It's like a religion for conservatives--red meat for the base.

I say this as a conservative evangelical Christian who teaches in the public schools, but does not belong to the union.

It's hogwash, in short, what you believe. Take me, for example

But I do see signs of indoctrination. For example, the push that you can be anything you want, or that you are gay, or that the government is for your service.

"Signs of indoctrination" is not even close to the absolute crap you have been spouting on this thread.

So who's shoveling bs? Teachers in public schools, or conservatives lying about it?

It is not crap, but a fact, that teacher unions control property taxes, therefore extorting a blank check for their pension plans yearly.

Your liberal democrat indoctrination prevents you from seeing this obvious problem.

I am not a liberal democrat. I am a conservative. I never vote Democrat, only Republican. Don't love all Republicans but loathe Democrat policies, so much that I quit the union over it years ago. I belong instead to a Christian teachers' union. And in my state, teachers unions do not control property taxes--I have no idea what you're talking about.

You have taken a few stories about indoctrination in very liberal areas and extrapolated that to the whole nation. Do you really think teachers in anytown, Kansas or Alabama or North Dakota are indoctrinating their students into liberal policies--or that anyone has time for this? Really?

I think the primary problem is financial, not even professional.

But professionally, it is still true, that teachers and parents are in this haze of merry hand-in-hand bosom fraternity with each other for the purpose of bullying unsuspecting retard pupils that they must sacrifice everything in order to be the best in whatever they tell them that they are the best in. Hehehe.

So, from this fact, it is very easy to con the families to write all those blank checks every tax year for the benefit of the teacher unions.

Is your argument to the contrary that you found a town in the USA where it is not so? Hooray, even I know that that would be a chance of maybe 1 : million. Try again.

 

[initforme]

Well another I gotta say my 4 kids all attended public schools here(rural)...they received a great education and all are doing well in their chosen careers. The teachers for the most part were outstanding and this indoctrination empty rhetoric was nonexistent. Those teachers were just people like you and i. In fact you will be happy to know our community just passed a referendum to increase taxes to keep things going....it was overwhelmingly supported. I will pay 80 dollars more per year for the next 4 years and iIam proud to do it. The community uses the pool, fitness center and auditorium frequently and teachers are there supervising and helping out. Also are you aware that local school boards set the curriculum. The teachers are bound to teach it. If you want quality you pay for it. Sue is the winner in this post.

 

[sealybobo]

Terrible idea. Every time you centralize power in the hands of the Federal government, they screw it up.

I would rather leave it to the local level. Better to stay in a bad system, than give it to the Federal government. You put it in the hands of the feds, and the special interest money will pour into congress, to sway control of education in whatever way they want. Bad idea. Terrible idea.

I think you have convinced me. Centralization is always bad, I must agree. What I am trying to solve is the problem of the dependency of property prices on schools. Teacher unions can shut down public schools easily and drive property investments down, which is the weapon they use. The reason why public sector unions flourish when every other union fails is that they have your taxes in their pockets. How can we stop them then? They will play one school district against the other.

...

I’d like to have school free cities for people who don’t have kids.

Your dream of homosexual segregation isn’t very practical, Giovanni.

Look up the states that collect the least to pay for schools. I could move to one of those states but then I’d be in a red state.

Yes, and you would get a better education too. I hear also that the best US universities are now there. Too bad, too many democrat scum bags are now moving into the red states to save their money, not realizing that it is their own democrat idiocy that will turn the red state blue and make them lose their savings like they never moved to begin with. Same affliction as the Honduras gang bangers climbing across the wall and bringing Honduras with them. How safe are red states?

Sorry but MSU and uom are two great universities in the USA.

You’d have to post a link showing the best schools are in red states. I don’t buy that at all.

The advantage you may have is you don’t have ghettos. Ever think of that?

 

[sealybobo]

...most colleges look at SAT and ACT scores, rather than your GPA. ...

WRONG.

...

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. ...

You're wrong.

It’s not enough to just say he’s wrong. Prove it

 

[sealybobo]

...most colleges look at SAT and ACT scores, rather than your GPA. ...

WRONG.

...

When I myself went to college, they never once looked at my GPA in high school. ....

Yes they did.

No, they did not. .....

Yes, they did. Do not lie, I know better.

Andy why do you engage with this as Clown?

 

[sealybobo]

If anything, the trend is toward colleges weighing the SAT or ACT less than in previous years. The GPA is right there on the transcript. Colleges look at it.

I specifically..... SPECIFICALLY ASKED.... if my GPA was required to gain entrance.

They said.... NO. What part of this, are you unable to understand?

The part where you lie over and over again.

Why would I lie about this? For what reason?

Grades pointless? Some colleges don't care about GPAs

Parents and their high school students are fascinated by the grade point average and what it means in college admissions, but the truth is that a number of colleges and universities are not all that interested.

Admissions officers at some of the nation's most selective colleges, who are now sending acceptance letters for their fall freshman classes, say they barely look at an applicant's GPA.

"It's meaningless," says Greg Roberts, admissions dean at the University of Virginia, ranked as the top public university in this year's 150 Best Value Colleges, published by The Princeton Review and based on academics and affordability.​

So now I have on the record, direct quotes from people who work at the admissions of major universities, saying the exact same thing.

I'll ask you again.... what am I lying about, and prove it.

As I said before, I specifically asked if the college I applied at, was looking at my GPA. They said directly "no". So now, YOU are the liar.

Why do you keep lying? You know I'm right, and I have the facts to prove it. Why are you lying to everyone on this forum, this entire thread? Does that stroke your ego to claim others are lying, when you are the one lying?

You are offering a lot in defense of your arguments. Unkotare isn’t contributing. To me it seems like he’s letting you do all the talking.

A man of few words.

 

[sealybobo]

If anything, the trend is toward colleges weighing the SAT or ACT less than in previous years. The GPA is right there on the transcript. Colleges look at it.

Some colleges do.

GPA is important but you can completely blow off high school, go to community college for one semester, get good grades and get into a great university. Doesn’t mean you will succeed. You got to be smart to graduate from a great college. Same as my youngest nephew is going to drop out of his private school. It’s too hard. He will get Bs in a public school though and do fine at a good university like I did. If only public school teachers prepared their kids for college and finding a great career but what do they know they went to school to be teachers. They don’t know shit about business, engineering, computers, becoming a doctor, etc. It’s rare I hope you are explaining what it takes to become these other things. I don’t think you teachers do.

My driving factor to graduating college was

Get a great job in sales.
Don’t be a loser who couldn’t finish
Don’t move back to my parents house.

No public school teacher inspired me. What do they know they went to college to go back to high school. Think about that. Who inspired me? I ran a stockbrokers gym in 11th and 12th grade. I wanted to be a baller stock broker like him. Instead I’m a baller sales guy who sells something else. Certainly not cars.

Public school teaching needs to be reformed. Your shit is outdated. Devos is right

 

[sealybobo]

this list is not all that much different from what other e ecutives or workers have. In most jobs, you do need to prepare for your presentations, do your customer support work outside meting hours, and do these with only 2 weeks of vacation per year. So teachers are still wise guys who pulled it over everyone else. Very clever though. Hehehe.

I think the major difference between professional people in business and teachers is the opportunity of advancement. Most people that go into teaching give up the idea that they will every advance past the classroom. If you are lucky, you might become a department head with a small increase in pay and a lot of additional work plus teaching. Over half the teachers that remain in education retire as teachers. The opportunity for advance is slim at best. You don't get to be a principle without at least a Masters degree and if you hope to move up further you better plan on more education. Even with more education advancement is not likely. Unlike the business world, success does not equate to more money. Growth rates in education is relatively low compared to most businesses so you can't look forward to any end of year bonuses or major expansions. What you get in teaching as compensation is job security, a good retiremen. Without that it's just the satisfaction of teaching kids which grows pretty old after 20 years.

A friend of mine is retiring from teaching after 30 years. She has been an elementary teacher at the same school for 26 years in the same classroom. She loves teaching and loves kids. I have no doubt that she would continue teaching till the day she died but her health prevents it. The pay is immaterial. However, most teachers are not like this. They teach because they need a paycheck. If you want better education for your kids, you need to pay a salary that will attract better people. It's that simple.

How do you know that most teachers don't teach because they "love kids and love teaching"? How do you know most do it simply for the paycheck?

Where are your stats or your surveys on this...or are you just making crap up?

Is there anything wrong with doing your job for nothing but your paycheck only? It may be easier if you also like your job, but you don't have to, you just have to do it and do it to an acceptable quality.

And these are all supposedly conservative republican teachers.

Until it comes to their collective bargaining power and job protections. Most of the teachers I know don’t like being treated like an employee who could lose their job if the school doesn’t want them there anymore. For whatever reason.

Welcome to the world the rest of us live in. We have no job security, no pensions, no collective bargaining and we can and do get fired. Teachers have to do something horrible to be fired. Tenure

However, in the private sector, there are more opportunities because the private sector has greater economic growth than public education. Teachers don't get bonuses when business is good or profit sharing plans, and have little opportunity for advancement regardless of their teaching ability. Unlike the private sector, a teacher is not likely to improve his or her financial situation by taking another job in the area because the public school system is often the only game in town for most teachers since most private schools pay less than public schools.

Like all fields, teaching has it's pros and cons. As a teacher you get relatively good job security, pension, and days off. The cons are a poor chance advancement, long work days, and a requirement 4 to 6 years in college.

I asked my nephew who goes to an expensive private school how much his teachers make he said less than public teachers but

Smaller class sizes
No trouble students, or not as many bad students who act up or have behavior issues.
They can live on campus free
Their kids can go for free or half off.

I have a feeling if we privatized teaching we could find teachers. We know these teachers here would go along with whatever the republicans do about teachers unions.

Hell the one teacher lady here who blocked me said she doesn’t pay her union dues. Her job needs to be outsourced.

No more striking. You strike you’re fired. No more unions. That shit is over.

She thinks I’m mean because I want her to lose her job because she makes too much. Lose her pension too.

Well it won’t be me who does it it’ll be the republicans she voted for.

Who cares what I wish for. She votes for it. What’s worse?

 

[Unkotare]

Hey are all you guys reading this?? I'm not making this crap up! I've read about school systems all over the world. We are the only moronic school system that promotes people regardless of their GPA. We're the only system in the world that has a no-child-left-behind-no-matter-how-they-do idiotic ideology.

Maybe but I think Great Britain is even stupider. The other year, They suddenly changed the high school diploma test which is nationalized in that country. But they didn't print any study books or exercise materials, nor did they notify teachers about it. So the GPA of the entire country fell by like 1.9 suddenly in that year. So America is not the stupidest of all.

Well... yeah, but if we have government controlled education, what happened there, will happen here.

Yes. Government control over education is an even bigger problem. And it will be very hard to kick the government out, because public education was invented for the very purpose of indoctrination for the government.

This is absolute nonsense but you won't believe it. You're too deep into your faith system to believe it.

I have not used a religious argument in this thread. So what are you talking about?

....You have to live in a carefully selected rare school district to actually learn something in a public school.

...?

Another one talking out his ass.