Yes, the Palestinians are finished.
Why Still No Peace?
- Thread starter MJB12741
- Start date
SLOW HORSES WAITING FOR THE
PALESTINIANS TO GIVE UP THEIR LAND
It's taken over seventy years, but that was the objective from the beginning.
Interesting perspective.
And to add insult to injury, the Palestinians and their pathetic firecrackers are not responsible for Israel's demise. They don't have the power to do so.
The only one destroying the state of Israel is Israel itself constantly swallowing Palestinian land in the WB thereby creating a de facto single state.
Stryder50
Platinum Member
Jews first acquired the Levant after Abram's pact with YHWH about 2000 BC, over 4,000 years ago. There were some brief gaps in their occupation of that land but for the most part it was theirs until the Islam conquest of 636-638 AD ;
en.wikipedia.org
This was just a few years after Muhammad, founder of Islam, passed away;
en.wikipedia.org
For the next several hundred years, Muslims held a greater number and presence than the Jews, other than a few brief periods during the Crusades when Christians dominated the region.
Jews began to return to their Homeland about a century and half ago, and supposedly the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was to settle the matter of Jews share of the Levant.
en.wikipedia.org
But that quickly fell through and then WW Two further mucked things.
After the War there was a plan brokered by the UN;
A further complication is that per Islam Scripture and Dogma, any lands once conquered and placed under the realm(World) of Islam are to be Islamic lands forever. If taken by infidels (non-Muslims) they must be recaptured and reclaimed. Not just the Levant~Palestine~Israel is subject to these terms, same applies to places like Spain, Sicily, other parts of Southern and Eastern Europe as well.
One of Muhammad's last instructions to his followers was that Islam was to fight all of humanity until the whole of humanity had converted to Islam. Until there are fundamental changes~revisions to Islamic Scriptures and Dogmas abrogating this final instruction from Muhammad, we can expect a "Forever War, Everywhere" until;
>Islam succeeds in global conversion.
>Islam revises and changes these portions of it's Dogma and Agenda
>Islam ceases to be a viable and significant religion and political force on this planet
Siege of Jerusalem (636–637) - Wikipedia
Muhammad - Wikipedia
For the next several hundred years, Muslims held a greater number and presence than the Jews, other than a few brief periods during the Crusades when Christians dominated the region.
Jews began to return to their Homeland about a century and half ago, and supposedly the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was to settle the matter of Jews share of the Levant.
Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia
After the War there was a plan brokered by the UN;
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine
But this was rejected by the Muslim/Arab nations neighboring the Levant/'Israel' and hence the 1948 war;The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - state.gov
In that war the Muslim/Arab aggressors sought to destroy Israel and drive any surviving Jews into the sea. They failed to do that. However, the all or nothing conditions that the Muslim/Arabs fought for set the terms for future conflicts where land taken would be kept. Part of the complication in the present situation since the "all or nothing" terms swing both ways (to be fair and honest).A further complication is that per Islam Scripture and Dogma, any lands once conquered and placed under the realm(World) of Islam are to be Islamic lands forever. If taken by infidels (non-Muslims) they must be recaptured and reclaimed. Not just the Levant~Palestine~Israel is subject to these terms, same applies to places like Spain, Sicily, other parts of Southern and Eastern Europe as well.
One of Muhammad's last instructions to his followers was that Islam was to fight all of humanity until the whole of humanity had converted to Islam. Until there are fundamental changes~revisions to Islamic Scriptures and Dogmas abrogating this final instruction from Muhammad, we can expect a "Forever War, Everywhere" until;
>Islam succeeds in global conversion.
>Islam revises and changes these portions of it's Dogma and Agenda
>Islam ceases to be a viable and significant religion and political force on this planet
Roudy
Diamond Member
- Mar 16, 2012
- 60,610
- 18,578
- 2,250
Jews have control over their ancestral, cultural and religious homeland. It’s called Israel.
Jews first acquired the Levant after Abram's pact with YHWH about 2000 BC, over 4,000 years ago. There were some brief gaps in their occupation of that land but for the most part it was theirs until the Islam conquest of 636-638 AD ;
This was just a few years after Muhammad, founder of Islam, passed away;Siege of Jerusalem (636–637) - Wikipedia
Muhammad - Wikipedia
For the next several hundred years, Muslims held a greater number and presence than the Jews, other than a few brief periods during the Crusades when Christians dominated the region.
Jews began to return to their Homeland about a century and half ago, and supposedly the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was to settle the matter of Jews share of the Levant.
But that quickly fell through and then WW Two further mucked things.Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia
After the War there was a plan brokered by the UN;
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine
But this was rejected by the Muslim/Arab nations neighboring the Levant/'Israel' and hence the 1948 war;
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - state.gov
In that war the Muslim/Arab aggressors sought to destroy Israel and drive any surviving Jews into the sea. They failed to do that. However, the all or nothing conditions that the Muslim/Arabs fought for set the terms for future conflicts where land taken would be kept. Part of the complication in the present situation since the "all or nothing" terms swing both ways (to be fair and honest).
A further complication is that per Islam Scripture and Dogma, any lands once conquered and placed under the realm(World) of Islam are to be Islamic lands forever. If taken by infidels (non-Muslims) they must be recaptured and reclaimed. Not just the Levant~Palestine~Israel is subject to these terms, same applies to places like Spain, Sicily, other parts of Southern and Eastern Europe as well.
One of Muhammad's last instructions to his followers was that Islam was to fight all of humanity until the whole of humanity had converted to Islam. Until there are fundamental changes~revisions to Islamic Scriptures and Dogmas abrogating this final instruction from Muhammad, we can expect a "Forever War, Everywhere" until;
>Islam succeeds in global conversion.
>Islam revises and changes these portions of it's Dogma and Agenda
>Islam ceases to be a viable and significant religion and political force on this planet
Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam. The Akkadians were Arabs from the Arabian peninsula.
Stryder50
Platinum Member
And Abram/Abraham along with the first Jews were also Arab. Which is why I wrote it as "Islam/Arab" or "Muslim/Arab".
...
According to the Abrahamic tradition, Arabs are descendants of Abraham, with his son Ishmael. Ishmael had twelve sons, each of whom became a tribal chief in one of the regions from Havilah to Shur (from ancient Mesopotamia to the east of Egypt).[74] Arabs have been in the Fertile Crescent for thousands of years.[75] In the 9th century BCE, the Assyrians made written references to Arabs as inhabitants of the Levant, Mesopotamia, and, Arabia.[76] Throughout the ancient Near East, Arabs established influential civilizations starting from 3000 BCE onwards, such as Dilmun, Gerrha and, Magan, playing a vital role in trade between Mesopotamia, and the Mediterranean.[77] Other prominent tribes include Midian, Ê¿Ä€d, and Thamud mentioned in the Bible and Quran. The Amorites, likely originating from Arabia, emerged around 2100 BCE in the Levant and Mesopotamia.[78] Around 1300 BCE, the Edomites were found adjacent to Moab in the southern Levant.[79] Later, in 900 BCE, the Qedarites where enjoyed close relations with the nearby Canaanite and Aramaean states, and their territory extended from Lower Egypt to the Southern Levant.[80] From 1200 BCE to 110 BCE, powerful Arab kingdoms such as Saba, Lihyan, Minaean, Qataban, Hadhramaut, Awsan, and Homerite emerged in Arabia.[81]
...
Arabs - Wikipedia
Also, Abraham's family originated in Ur, one of the first cities of Sumer which later became the Akkad(Akkadian) civilization. Both in Mesopotamia, known as Iraq today.
Akkadian Empire - Wikipedia
And Abram/Abraham along with the first Jews were also Arab. Which is why I wrote it as "Islam/Arab" or "Muslim/Arab".
...
According to the Abrahamic tradition, Arabs are descendants of Abraham, with his son Ishmael. Ishmael had twelve sons, each of whom became a tribal chief in one of the regions from Havilah to Shur (from ancient Mesopotamia to the east of Egypt).[74] Arabs have been in the Fertile Crescent for thousands of years.[75] In the 9th century BCE, the Assyrians made written references to Arabs as inhabitants of the Levant, Mesopotamia, and, Arabia.[76] Throughout the ancient Near East, Arabs established influential civilizations starting from 3000 BCE onwards, such as Dilmun, Gerrha and, Magan, playing a vital role in trade between Mesopotamia, and the Mediterranean.[77] Other prominent tribes include Midian, Ê¿Ä€d, and Thamud mentioned in the Bible and Quran. The Amorites, likely originating from Arabia, emerged around 2100 BCE in the Levant and Mesopotamia.[78] Around 1300 BCE, the Edomites were found adjacent to Moab in the southern Levant.[79] Later, in 900 BCE, the Qedarites where enjoyed close relations with the nearby Canaanite and Aramaean states, and their territory extended from Lower Egypt to the Southern Levant.[80] From 1200 BCE to 110 BCE, powerful Arab kingdoms such as Saba, Lihyan, Minaean, Qataban, Hadhramaut, Awsan, and Homerite emerged in Arabia.[81]
...
Arabs - Wikipedia
Also, Abraham's family originated in Ur, one of the first cities of Sumer which later became the Akkad(Akkadian) civilization. Both in Mesopotamia, known as Iraq today.
Akkadian Empire - Wikipedia
Thanks. Abraham also had six sons with Keturah.
Stryder50
Platinum Member
Yeah, in a way, one could say the "Israel/Arab" conflict is huge family feud.
- Thread starter
- #34
And that is why I maintain that for any peace to begin, both Israelis & Palestinians must first agree that both are there to stay.
And that is why I maintain that for any peace to begin, both Israelis &
Palestinians must first agree that both are there to stay.
MJB
What exactly this poster has in mind when he says Israelis and Palestinians are here to stay?Palestinians must first agree that both are there to stay.
MJB
The nation state of Israel and a future Palestinian state are here to stay? Is that what he mean?
The border separating both countries is here to stay?
Or is he referring to the peoples... The individuals who call themselves Israelis and Palestinians?
The absolute vagueness of his statement, his reluctance to say in no uncertain terms what he means by "both are here to stay" shows that this poster lost his faith in two states... The ambiguity of his statement shows his fear of explicitly stating that Palestinians and Jews will never accept the partition of their homeland... He's afraid of saying this because he knows it simply won't happen... not a chance in Hell... the ultimate pipe dream.
Ironically, the things the poster MJB didn't say are much more relevant than the things he actually did.
Last edited:
toomuchtime_
Gold Member
- Dec 29, 2008
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As always, a lot of words that mean nothing. Perhaps if you tried addressing the issues at hand instead of writing about your own attitudes and emotions you might have something to contribute. We all know the reason why there is peace: because there has never been a Palestinian leader who could credibly offer peace to Israel. Some thought Arafat was such a leader, but that is doubtful, and certainly there is no such Palestinian now or likely to be one in the foreseeable future.
Israel has taken more and more land including parts of Lebanon and Syria. There's nothing left for a Palestinian state. That possibility hasn't existed for a decade or more. Look at the Jewish only settlements in the west bank.
toomuchtime_
Gold Member
- Dec 29, 2008
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Bullshit. Israel made the land for peace offer right after the Six Day War, and in the years after, those Arab leaders who could credibly offer peace to Israel and were willing to, got their land back.
Right up until Syria collapsed into civil war and was effectively taken over by Russia and Iran, every Israeli PM made the land for peace offer to the Assad's, but they rejected it.
Peace with the Palestinians and a Palestinian state has never been possible because there has never been a Palestinian leader who could credibly offer peace to Israel and there is no rational basis in fact or logic to think there will be one in the foreseeable future.
Read Moisher Dayan. They planned the six day war in 1953 and did everything in their power to provoke a war. They wanted more land and water. They attacked Egypt when Egyptian forces were deployed in Yemen from 1964 to 1972.
We all know the reason why there is peace: because there has never been a Palestinian leader who could credibly offer peace to Israel. Some thought Arafat was such a leader, but that is doubtful, and certainly there is no such Palestinian now or likely to be one in the foreseeable future.
"There has never been a Palestinian leader who could" accept the West Bank and Gaza as a final agreement for the conflict because the entire palestinian people rejects the partition of their homeland.
The moment any palestinian leader, even Arafat, compromises even a square inch of Palestine they will be delegitimized in the eyes of the palestinian people.
"In the foreseeable future" is just toomuchtime's delicate way to say "never".
TOOMUCHTIME
Your post proved my whole point for me.
"There has never been a Palestinian leader who could" accept the West Bank and Gaza as a final agreement for the conflict because the entire palestinian people rejects the partition of their homeland.
The moment any palestinian leader, even Arafat, compromises even a square inch of Palestine they will be delegitimized in the eyes of the palestinian people.
"In the foreseeable future" is just toomuchtime's delicate way to say "never".
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