Why Isn't 20,000 Border Patrol Agents Enough

[WillPower]

That's still 4000 people for two thousand miles of border per shift.

First of all, the 4.000 aren't all on patrol but even if they were, you're satisfied with them being HALF A MILE APART? Too bad the NVA didn't use that doctrine....we used to slip by them when they were 60 feet apart....sssshhh....gotta be real quiet.

 

[bripat9643]

We don't need 15,000 agents. Again Trump is trying to please his base. It may not matter anyweay.

"In a sign of the difficulties, Customs and Border Protection allocated $60.7 million to Accenture Federal Services, a management consulting firm, as part of a $297 million contract to recruit, vet and hire 7,500 border officers over five years, but the company has produced only 33 new hires so far.

The president's promised hiring surge steadily lost ground even as he publicly hammered away at the need for stiffer border security, warned of a looming migrant "invasion" and shut down parts of the government for five weeks over his demands for $5.7 billion from Congress for a border wall.

The Border Patrol gained a total of 120 agents in 2018, the first net gain in five years."

Trump's border hiring surge has fallen far short

We get 400,000 illegals / year, so we obviously need more of something. Without a wall, that means we need to get more agents. All you're saying is that you're content to allow 400,000 illegals into the country every year. That's what makes you a douchebag and a traitor.

You are a douchebag and unmitigated trash. Disagreeing with you does not make one a traitor. You are the traitor as you refuse to accept different opinions.

No, but opposing any solution to our porous border does make you a traitor, and that's all you do. Build a wall? You RACIST! Hire more border patrol? You RACIST! Tighten up our immigration law? You RACIST!

 

[bripat9643]

I have and apparently you haven't or you would see the problem with not having a paved access road near the border.

Either toward the end of the Trump campaign or just after he was elected they published a vision of the Trump wall. It had a paved access road running between the wall and a security fence. Of course in the latest rendition of the big beautiful wall, it's a barrier sitting out in the desert with no security fence and no road which guarantees it will be worthless in stopping migrants. But what the hell, it will make a nice display or slide show at Trump rallies which is exactly what this is all about.

Why does it have to be paved?

Your information is incredibly wrong. That barrier has a road and it it is virtually impossible to get over without serious injury. Consuelo and her baby are not getting over that wall that is a difficult task for special operations troops to conquer. Jose might, but he will be picked up when the electronic surveillance catches him trying and the patrol scoops his ass up while he is waiting on the American side for his BMW and their offspring to try to get across.

The road doesn't have to be paved but it might detract from Trump's big beautiful wall if it was gravel.

Electronic surveillance of the wall is not going to be much use if the border patrol has to drive across the desert for two hours to get to the wall.

Consuelo and her 6 kids will have no real problem getting over the wall because she will pay a coyote with the necessary equipment to get her over. The test done on the wall in California reveal the height of the wall would need to be 30 feet, over 10 feet higher than what has been planned.

You are a true liberal. Most of this shit you post simply is not true!

Coyotes have helicopters now?

Not only that, but he is playing defeatist, just like a liberal. "Wife's black boyfriend is here and would like you to watch"... well nothing that can be done, better watch. This is your brain on soy.

The border patrol agents want the wall, at this point everyone knows it's not only effective but SUPREMELY effective. Which is exactly why the party of the illegals is resisting it so hard, they want this country swamped by 3rd worlders.

Most voters do not want a wall.

Yeah, but they do want a "barrier." They also oppose amnesty by 2 to 1.

 

[Siete]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

well clearly the amount we are using isn't enough, and once the wall is built, those numbers can be cut back.

clearly -

since border crossings are at 40 year LOWS

Thanks to Trump they may be but it is not enough.

SO THANKS TO TRUMP there is no national emergency

got it.

 

[Votto]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

Sure, so that they can be caught and released.

What sense is that? Why even catch them to begin with if that is what you are going to do?

With over 300 American dying from drugs flowing across the border a day, I would think the army would be there to protect Americans.

Guess not.

 

[Siete]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

Sure, so that they can be caught and released.

What sense is that? Why even catch them to begin with if that is what you are going to do?

With over 300 American dying from drugs flowing across the border a day, I would think the army would be there to protect Americans.

Guess not.

then close the airports too .... more dope comes through them than on the backs of mexicans ..

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[mikegriffith1]

You are overlooking a number of facts. The 20,000 border patrol agents can't all be on duty at the same time. You need three 8-hour shifts. You need at least 30-50 agents at every entry point for each 8-hour shift. About 10% of the agents are needed to conduct the training of new agents at CBP and ICE training sites. Then you must factor in vacation time, sick days, training days, and so forth. Etc., etc., etc.

So Trump is absolutely correct in asking for 15,000 more border patrol agents. To properly secure a 2,000 mile border, 50,000 agents would be ideal.

 

[Flopper]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

I know right? They all work 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no sick leave time off and no supervisors and no sleep!

That's still 4000 people for two thousand miles of border per shift.

Which is more than adequate if the border patrol has easy quick access to the border and there is monitoring so migrants can be located and captured at the border. This is really important because as a border patrol agent explained, once they cross the border there are 3 directions they can go. If we don't capture them at the border then it becomes a job tracking them through the deserts which is very time consuming and often unsuccessful.

There is a lot said about the effectiveness of the Israel border wall. However, the key to it's effectiveness is the highway beside the wall that makes possible border guard patrols every 5 mins.

 

[DandyDonovan]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

It's precisely because of how open the border is that we need so many agents.

Also, unless you're outright stupid , it isn't difficult to figure out. You have 3 shifts a day, plus everyone needs 2 days a week off, plus vacation time, sick time, personal days, whatever. Plus the fact that for every agent out actively "guarding the border" there are at least 2 others doing necessary office work, etc etc.

Let's use your numbers, 2,000 miles - 15000 agents and do some math.

First, let's simply divide by 3 (the number of shifts in a day0 and see that we only have 5,000 agents guarding 2,000 miles at any given time . Or 5 agents guarding 2 miles or 2.5 guards per 1 mile. Now consider that of those 2.5 guards per mile only 1 of them is actually out guarding anything, they other 1.5 is in the back doing paperwork and such.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I worked for Customs and Border Protection (CBP) for four years during the last three years under Bush and during Obama's first year. CBP does not just man the southern border, for starters. They man entry control points in other areas. Senior CBP officers are based all over the country, with many being based in DC. Every border entry point needs a strong concentration of CBP agents. You need agents to do tours as trainers at CBP training facilities for new recruits. Border operations are 24/7, so you're talking about multiple shifts. Then you have to factor in training time, vacation time, sick time, rotation days off, etc., etc. 20,000 agents is not nearly enough for the job that needs to be done.

Let me say something about virtual fencing. Virtual fencing is only effective if you have enough CBP agents who can rush to the spot where human movement has been detected by the mounted cameras/sensors, assuming the cameras/sensors are all working. You have to have agents manning the sensor stations, and those agents have to alert to response agents when they detect human movement. The bad guys are not dumb. In many cases, they can make a faint in one part of a sector, wait until agents show up to respond, and then other illegals will sneak across out of sight of the responders in another part of the sector. A virtual fence is just that: virtual. If you can't get agents to the area where movement has been spotted in a matter of a few minutes, the illegals can simply waltz across and wave at the cameras as they do so, especially if they know that you only have enough agents in that sector to respond to one or two sightings at a time.

 

[Indeependent]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

Only 700 are not a natural border.
We need to carpet bomb Mexico.

Prayer carpet?

Dead drug pushers.

 

[Flopper]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

It's precisely because of how open the border is that we need so many agents.

Also, unless you're outright stupid , it isn't difficult to figure out. You have 3 shifts a day, plus everyone needs 2 days a week off, plus vacation time, sick time, personal days, whatever. Plus the fact that for every agent out actively "guarding the border" there are at least 2 others doing necessary office work, etc etc.

Let's use your numbers, 2,000 miles - 15000 agents and do some math.

First, let's simply divide by 3 (the number of shifts in a day0 and see that we only have 5,000 agents guarding 2,000 miles at any given time . Or 5 agents guarding 2 miles or 2.5 guards per 1 mile. Now consider that of those 2.5 guards per mile only 1 of them is actually out guarding anything, they other 1.5 is in the back doing paperwork and such.

It's time for clarification. There are currently 22,000 border patrol officers positions. Of those approximately 21,000 are filled. 19,000 are assigned to the Southern border. Trump has asked for an additional 15,000 border patrol officers for the southern border. This would bring the total to 34,000. The duty of these people is protection of border. There are many other positions in Customs and Border Protection including supervisors, administrative people, border inspection protection officers, specialists, etc but what we are talking about is the 34,000 border patrol officers that will be patrolling and protecting our southern border. Of course you have to reduce that by factor 3 for shifts which brings the number to 5.6 officers/mile of border. Now you can reduce that for time off or the number of officers that traveling together but the basic figure is 5.6 officers/mile of border on each shift. Correct me if I made a math error.

 

[DandyDonovan]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

It's precisely because of how open the border is that we need so many agents.

Also, unless you're outright stupid , it isn't difficult to figure out. You have 3 shifts a day, plus everyone needs 2 days a week off, plus vacation time, sick time, personal days, whatever. Plus the fact that for every agent out actively "guarding the border" there are at least 2 others doing necessary office work, etc etc.

Let's use your numbers, 2,000 miles - 15000 agents and do some math.

First, let's simply divide by 3 (the number of shifts in a day0 and see that we only have 5,000 agents guarding 2,000 miles at any given time . Or 5 agents guarding 2 miles or 2.5 guards per 1 mile. Now consider that of those 2.5 guards per mile only 1 of them is actually out guarding anything, they other 1.5 is in the back doing paperwork and such.

It's time for clarification. There are currently 22,000 border patrol officers positions. Of those approximately 21,000 are filled. 19,000 are assigned to the Southern border. Trump has asked for an additional 15,000 border patrol officers for the southern border. This would bring the total to 34,000. The duty of these people is protection of border. There are many other positions in Customs and Border Protection including supervisors, administrative people, border inspection protection officers, specialists, etc but what we are talking about is the 34,000 border patrol officers that will be patrolling and protecting our southern border.

Even so, we're talking about at most we currently have 2.5 BP agents per mile and that's not even considering how many are at points of entry rather than patrolling the border.

 

[bripat9643]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

I know right? They all work 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no sick leave time off and no supervisors and no sleep!

That's still 4000 people for two thousand miles of border per shift.

Which is more than adequate if the border patrol has easy quick access to the border and there is monitoring so migrants can be located and captured at the border. This is really important because as a border patrol agent explained, once they cross the border there are 3 directions they can go. If we don't capture them at the border then it becomes a job tracking them through the deserts which is very time consuming and often unsuccessful.

There is a lot said about the effectiveness of the Israel border wall. However, the key to it's effectiveness is the highway beside the wall that makes possible border guard patrols every 5 mins.

You seem to be arguing for the wall.

 

[Flopper]

I worked for Customs and Border Protection (CBP) for four years during the last three years under Bush and during Obama's first year. CBP does not just man the southern border, for starters. They man entry control points in other areas. Senior CBP officers are based all over the country, with many being based in DC. Every border entry point needs a strong concentration of CBP agents. You need agents to do tours as trainers at CBP training facilities for new recruits. Border operations are 24/7, so you're talking about multiple shifts. Then you have to factor in training time, vacation time, sick time, rotation days off, etc., etc. 20,000 agents is not nearly enough for the job that needs to be done.

Let me say something about virtual fencing. Virtual fencing is only effective if you have enough CBP agents who can rush to the spot where human movement has been detected by the mounted cameras/sensors, assuming the cameras/sensors are all working. You have to have agents manning the sensor stations, and those agents have to alert to response agents when they detect human movement. The bad guys are not dumb. In many cases, they can make a faint in one part of a sector, wait until agents show up to respond, and then other illegals will sneak across out of sight of the responders in another part of the sector. A virtual fence is just that: virtual. If you can't get agents to the area where movement has been spotted in a matter of a few minutes, the illegals can simply waltz across and wave at the cameras as they do so, especially if they know that you only have enough agents in that sector to respond to one or two sightings at a time.

On one point we agree.
"If you can't get agents to the area where movement has been spotted in a matter of a few minutes, the illegals can simply waltz across" I believe there has been little consideration for getting officers rapidly to the place on the border where they are needed. First, because electronic monitoring doesn't exist on most of the border and second because good roads running next to border don't exist in most of the 2000 miles of border. This is what I have seen in Southern Arizona and New Mexico. In some places, there is as much 30 to 50 miles between the border and any good road.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Trump wants 15,000 more agents on the southern border. The border is 2,000 miles. That means there would be 18 agents for ever mile of border or an agent for every 290 feet. This seems like a big overkill when you consider the difficulty in crossing large portions of the border and the technology we have available today to detect and track intruders.

Border patrol do not just patrol at the border. You'll find border patrol further in as well, sometimes, up to 70 to 100 miles away from the border. Maybe even further.

That's a lot of territory to cover.

I know when I worked out of corpus christi, our territory would take us to pharr Texas, pretty much to the border. There is a border patrol checkpoint about 60 miles north of the border, and you would see border patrol vehicles up to, and beyond falfurias, which is 73 miles away from the border.


There are a few of those border checkpoints on various highways, apart from the agents who patrol that whole area, and this is just in south Texas.

 

[busybee01]

We don't need 15,000 agents. Again Trump is trying to please his base. It may not matter anyweay.

"In a sign of the difficulties, Customs and Border Protection allocated $60.7 million to Accenture Federal Services, a management consulting firm, as part of a $297 million contract to recruit, vet and hire 7,500 border officers over five years, but the company has produced only 33 new hires so far.

The president's promised hiring surge steadily lost ground even as he publicly hammered away at the need for stiffer border security, warned of a looming migrant "invasion" and shut down parts of the government for five weeks over his demands for $5.7 billion from Congress for a border wall.

The Border Patrol gained a total of 120 agents in 2018, the first net gain in five years."

Trump's border hiring surge has fallen far short

We get 400,000 illegals / year, so we obviously need more of something. Without a wall, that means we need to get more agents. All you're saying is that you're content to allow 400,000 illegals into the country every year. That's what makes you a douchebag and a traitor.

You are a douchebag and unmitigated trash. Disagreeing with you does not make one a traitor. You are the traitor as you refuse to accept different opinions.

No, but opposing any solution to our porous border does make you a traitor, and that's all you do. Build a wall? You RACIST! Hire more border patrol? You RACIST! Tighten up our immigration law? You RACIST!

The border does not need a wall. Opposing a wall does not make anyone a traitor. There is nothing wrong that requires a wall or a huge amount of border patrol agents. There is nothing wrong with our immigration laws. You are the traitor.

 

[busybee01]

You are overlooking a number of facts. The 20,000 border patrol agents can't all be on duty at the same time. You need three 8-hour shifts. You need at least 30-50 agents at every entry point for each 8-hour shift. About 10% of the agents are needed to conduct the training of new agents at CBP and ICE training sites. Then you must factor in vacation time, sick days, training days, and so forth. Etc., etc., etc.

So Trump is absolutely correct in asking for 15,000 more border patrol agents. To properly secure a 2,000 mile border, 50,000 agents would be ideal.

That is ridiculous. You don't need that many agents. We don't need 15,000 and it really doesn't matter. They hired 123 agents last year. It is never going to happen.

 

[bripat9643]

We don't need 15,000 agents. Again Trump is trying to please his base. It may not matter anyweay.

"In a sign of the difficulties, Customs and Border Protection allocated $60.7 million to Accenture Federal Services, a management consulting firm, as part of a $297 million contract to recruit, vet and hire 7,500 border officers over five years, but the company has produced only 33 new hires so far.

The president's promised hiring surge steadily lost ground even as he publicly hammered away at the need for stiffer border security, warned of a looming migrant "invasion" and shut down parts of the government for five weeks over his demands for $5.7 billion from Congress for a border wall.

The Border Patrol gained a total of 120 agents in 2018, the first net gain in five years."

Trump's border hiring surge has fallen far short

We get 400,000 illegals / year, so we obviously need more of something. Without a wall, that means we need to get more agents. All you're saying is that you're content to allow 400,000 illegals into the country every year. That's what makes you a douchebag and a traitor.

You are a douchebag and unmitigated trash. Disagreeing with you does not make one a traitor. You are the traitor as you refuse to accept different opinions.

No, but opposing any solution to our porous border does make you a traitor, and that's all you do. Build a wall? You RACIST! Hire more border patrol? You RACIST! Tighten up our immigration law? You RACIST!

The border does not need a wall. Opposing a wall does not make anyone a traitor. There is nothing wrong that requires a wall or a huge amount of border patrol agents. There is nothing wrong with our immigration laws. You are the traitor.

All lies, of course. All the evidence shows that a wall can reduce illegal immigration by 95%. When you oppose the wall, you support illegal immigration 20 times larger than it has to be. We have 400,000 illegals crossing the border every year. What solution have you proposed? All you do is object to any solution anyone proposes. You obviously want all those illegals pouring in.

You are a ******* traitor.

 

[bripat9643]

I worked for Customs and Border Protection (CBP) for four years during the last three years under Bush and during Obama's first year. CBP does not just man the southern border, for starters. They man entry control points in other areas. Senior CBP officers are based all over the country, with many being based in DC. Every border entry point needs a strong concentration of CBP agents. You need agents to do tours as trainers at CBP training facilities for new recruits. Border operations are 24/7, so you're talking about multiple shifts. Then you have to factor in training time, vacation time, sick time, rotation days off, etc., etc. 20,000 agents is not nearly enough for the job that needs to be done.

Let me say something about virtual fencing. Virtual fencing is only effective if you have enough CBP agents who can rush to the spot where human movement has been detected by the mounted cameras/sensors, assuming the cameras/sensors are all working. You have to have agents manning the sensor stations, and those agents have to alert to response agents when they detect human movement. The bad guys are not dumb. In many cases, they can make a faint in one part of a sector, wait until agents show up to respond, and then other illegals will sneak across out of sight of the responders in another part of the sector. A virtual fence is just that: virtual. If you can't get agents to the area where movement has been spotted in a matter of a few minutes, the illegals can simply waltz across and wave at the cameras as they do so, especially if they know that you only have enough agents in that sector to respond to one or two sightings at a time.

On one point we agree.
"If you can't get agents to the area where movement has been spotted in a matter of a few minutes, the illegals can simply waltz across" I believe there has been little consideration for getting officers rapidly to the place on the border where they are needed. First, because electronic monitoring doesn't exist on most of the border and second because good roads running next to border don't exist in most of the 2000 miles of border. This is what I have seen in Southern Arizona and New Mexico. In some places, there is as much 30 to 50 miles between the border and any good road.

You forgot third: a wall doesn't exist.