Why Does Health Care in the U.S. Cost So Much?

[Dante]

Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit.



Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit.



Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit.



Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit. Profit.

what if the profits were taken out of the equation? (say be mandating that HC providers be non profits?) how do you think this would affect costs?

It will not effect costs at all since non profit status will mean less efficiency.
But you will see worse care and service as profits are typically used for increasing innovations.
No one has ever shown that non profit anything reduces costs. But it does make liberals feel good that they can deny someone some money.

 

[Common Sense]

what if the profits were taken out of the equation? (say be mandating that HC providers be non profits?) how do you think this would affect costs?

It will not effect costs at all since non profit status will mean less efficiency.
But you will see worse care and service as profits are typically used for increasing innovations.
No one has ever shown that non profit anything reduces costs. But it does make liberals feel good that they can deny someone some money.

thats actually where you are wrong. one non profit health care provider does exist and it is Kaiser. they own and operate their own health care facilities and provide their own health insurance. this has allowed them to reduce operating costs and pump all potential profits back into the system to lower consumer costs.

example: (quote straight from their website, you can plug in the numbers if you like)

30 year old male, los angeles, ca, non smoker
$25 Co pay, $0 annual deductible, $1500 out of pocket annual max, hospitalization $250

Kaiser HMO - $150 / month

the closest plans found:

Blue Shield PPO - $226 / month
$25 Co pay, $0 annual deductible, $6000 out of pocket annual max, hospitalization $500

Aetna doesnt even offer a plan with $0 deductible
but with a $35 copay - $3,500 deductible and 30% co insurance the rate is $176

can you explain the huge price differences?

 

[The Rabbi]

Because you're comparing apples to elephants.
Try again.

 

[Chris]

i know im late to this rodeo but i justed want to get the groups opinions on the reasons why i think costs are high and what, if any, might solutions to lowering these costs.

1. Health care being a for profit enterprise (as opposed to a non profit enterprise)
2. The high costs of pharmaceutical drugs
3. patients receiving useless tests and treatments
4. malpractice lawsuits
5. lack of a digital record for all medical files
6. high administrative costs
7. cost of administering services to the uninsured.
8. high costs of medical equipment
9. fraudulent medicare/medicaid claim

now i we can argue the overall affect of each of these somewhere else, but does anyone have suggestions on how to effectively bring down the costs of any or all of these categories.

also, if you think i left something off this list, please feel free to add it.


(added #9 per nighthawks suggestion)

anyone have any solutions to offer up yet?

I gave you a solution.

Copy the French system.

The French limit liability, their medical schools are practically free, so they have more doctors per capita(simple economics, more doctors means cheaper services), they hold down drug prices, they limit some expensive procedures, and they cover everyone.

Their system is not perfect, but it incorporates public and private insurance very nicely.

 

[Dante]

It will not effect costs at all since non profit status will mean less efficiency.
But you will see worse care and service as profits are typically used for increasing innovations.
No one has ever shown that non profit anything reduces costs. But it does make liberals feel good that they can deny someone some money.

thats actually where you are wrong. one non profit health care provider does exist and it is Kaiser. they own and operate their own health care facilities and provide their own health insurance. this has allowed them to reduce operating costs and pump all potential profits back into the system to lower consumer costs.

example: (quote straight from their website, you can plug in the numbers if you like)

30 year old male, los angeles, ca, non smoker
$25 Co pay, $0 annual deductible, $1500 out of pocket annual max, hospitalization $250

Kaiser HMO - $150 / month

the closest plans found:

Blue Shield PPO - $226 / month
$25 Co pay, $0 annual deductible, $6000 out of pocket annual max, hospitalization $500

Aetna doesnt even offer a plan with $0 deductible
but with a $35 copay - $3,500 deductible and 30% co insurance the rate is $176

can you explain the huge price differences?

can you pay attention?

Dante is for taking profit out of health insurance.

Owning a whole system as Kaiser does is only one option.

Many major teaching hospitals, where most of the innovation takes place, are non profits.

http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/lists-and-statistics/20-largest-non-profit-hospitals.html

 

[Dante]

Copy the French system.

copying any system is not a realistic or practical solution. Looking at other systems is a starting point for seeking what can be modified to work.

FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

Can the US learn anything from the rest of the world about how to run a health care system?


5 Capitalist Democracies and how they do it

 

[Common Sense]

Because you're comparing apples to elephants.
Try again.

actually these are the plans available to the consumer on their website that most closely match each other. since no 2 insurers actually offer the same exact plans an exact comparison is impossible. but a comparison of similar plans provides a good overview.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because you're comparing apples to elephants.
Try again.

actually these are the plans available to the consumer on their website that most closely match each other. since no 2 insurers actually offer the same exact plans an exact comparison is impossible. but a comparison of similar plans provides a good overview.

Yawn. Got anything substantive? Nah, I didnt think so either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did we ever get clear on WHICH "health care costs" we were talking about? Because it looks to me like some people are talking about one, and some are talking about the other, and I just don't see anything productive coming about until we're all on the same page.

 

[Common Sense]

Because you're comparing apples to elephants.
Try again.

actually these are the plans available to the consumer on their website that most closely match each other. since no 2 insurers actually offer the same exact plans an exact comparison is impossible. but a comparison of similar plans provides a good overview.

Yawn. Got anything substantive? Nah, I didnt think so either.

good job, your slogan should be: The Rabbi - continuing to contribute nothing to society but stupidity since birth

 

[The Rabbi]

Did we ever get clear on WHICH "health care costs" we were talking about? Because it looks to me like some people are talking about one, and some are talking about the other, and I just don't see anything productive coming about until we're all on the same page.

ColonScents can't make up his mind. Sometimes he talks about hospitals. Sometimes he talks about health insurers. Sometimes he cites a hybrid HMO like Kaiser as indicative of either one or the other, not realizing Kaiser is sui generis. When confronted with this contradiction he spins some irrelevant piece of bullshit left talking point about profits and evil corporations.

 

[Common Sense]

Did we ever get clear on WHICH "health care costs" we were talking about? Because it looks to me like some people are talking about one, and some are talking about the other, and I just don't see anything productive coming about until we're all on the same page.

ColonScents can't make up his mind. Sometimes he talks about hospitals. Sometimes he talks about health insurers. Sometimes he cites a hybrid HMO like Kaiser as indicative of either one or the other, not realizing Kaiser is sui generis. When confronted with this contradiction he spins some irrelevant piece of bullshit left talking point about profits and evil corporations.

and the retarded rabbi like to criticize people without offering any ideas of his own. wow sounds like another jackass republican spouting off more bull$hit.

wow latin, did your mommy teach you that, or did you just look it up on the internet to sound smart?

offer up some solutions retard.

 

[Dante]

actually these are the plans available to the consumer on their website that most closely match each other. since no 2 insurers actually offer the same exact plans an exact comparison is impossible. but a comparison of similar plans provides a good overview.

Yawn. Got anything substantive? Nah, I didnt think so either.

good job, your slogan should be: The Rabbi - continuing to contribute nothing to society but stupidity since birth

 

[The Rabbi]

Did we ever get clear on WHICH "health care costs" we were talking about? Because it looks to me like some people are talking about one, and some are talking about the other, and I just don't see anything productive coming about until we're all on the same page.

ColonScents can't make up his mind. Sometimes he talks about hospitals. Sometimes he talks about health insurers. Sometimes he cites a hybrid HMO like Kaiser as indicative of either one or the other, not realizing Kaiser is sui generis. When confronted with this contradiction he spins some irrelevant piece of bullshit left talking point about profits and evil corporations.

and the retarded rabbi like to criticize people without offering any ideas of his own. wow sounds like another jackass republican spouting off more bull$hit.

wow latin, did your mommy teach you that, or did you just look it up on the internet to sound smart?

offer up some solutions retard.

So your response to my criticism of your post isn't to defend what you've written but spew invective (that means insults, because your 4th grade education doesn't cut it).
figures. The bigger the pig, the louder they squeal.

 

[Common Sense]

ColonScents can't make up his mind. Sometimes he talks about hospitals. Sometimes he talks about health insurers. Sometimes he cites a hybrid HMO like Kaiser as indicative of either one or the other, not realizing Kaiser is sui generis. When confronted with this contradiction he spins some irrelevant piece of bullshit left talking point about profits and evil corporations.

and the retarded rabbi like to criticize people without offering any ideas of his own. wow sounds like another jackass republican spouting off more bull$hit.

wow latin, did your mommy teach you that, or did you just look it up on the internet to sound smart?

offer up some solutions retard.

So your response to my criticism of your post isn't to defend what you've written but spew invective (that means insults, because your 4th grade education doesn't cut it).
figures. The bigger the pig, the louder they squeal.

Edited-No Family Attacks.

i dont have to defend anything to you. you offer no solutions. once again the retarded rabbi still cant make a point.

 

[Cecilie1200]

and the retarded rabbi like to criticize people without offering any ideas of his own. wow sounds like another jackass republican spouting off more bull$hit.

wow latin, did your mommy teach you that, or did you just look it up on the internet to sound smart?

offer up some solutions retard.

So your response to my criticism of your post isn't to defend what you've written but spew invective (that means insults, because your 4th grade education doesn't cut it).
figures. The bigger the pig, the louder they squeal.

Edited-No Family Attacks.

i dont have to defend anything to you. you offer no solutions. once again the retarded rabbi still cant make a point.

Typical. Make no effort to clarify exactly what you're talking about, but demand that people "offer solutions" to your vague, undefined tripe, anyway.

 

[Common Sense]

So your response to my criticism of your post isn't to defend what you've written but spew invective (that means insults, because your 4th grade education doesn't cut it).
figures. The bigger the pig, the louder they squeal.

Edited-No Family Attacks.
i dont have to defend anything to you. you offer no solutions. once again the retarded rabbi still cant make a point.

Typical. Make no effort to calrify exactly what you're talking about, but demand that people "offer solutions" to your vague, undefined tripe, anyway.

way to show up to the party late without reading any of the other 7 pages of posts.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Edited-No Family Attacks.

i dont have to defend anything to you. you offer no solutions. once again the retarded rabbi still cant make a point.

Typical. Make no effort to calrify exactly what you're talking about, but demand that people "offer solutions" to your vague, undefined tripe, anyway.

way to show up to the party late without reading any of the other 7 pages of posts.

Way to respond without reading my OTHER posts, dipwad. I've already said that I'm asking for clarification BECAUSE everyone seems to be switching back and forth between the two possible topics, which leads to nothing but confusion.

Now, would you like to tell me which one YOU are talking about, or would you just like to continue pointlessly shouting for solutions to a problem you flatly refuse to define?

 

[The Rabbi]

and the retarded rabbi like to criticize people without offering any ideas of his own. wow sounds like another jackass republican spouting off more bull$hit.

wow latin, did your mommy teach you that, or did you just look it up on the internet to sound smart?

offer up some solutions retard.

So your response to my criticism of your post isn't to defend what you've written but spew invective (that means insults, because your 4th grade education doesn't cut it).
figures. The bigger the pig, the louder they squeal.

Edited-No Family Attacks.

i dont have to defend anything to you. you offer no solutions. once again the retarded rabbi still cant make a point.

I've negged rep you for your idiotic post. I reported it as a violation of TOS. And now I'm putting your worthless ass on Iggy because you obviously cannot debate or form a coherent thought.
My only regret is that it took me several pages to figure that out.

 

[The Rabbi]

Typical. Make no effort to calrify exactly what you're talking about, but demand that people "offer solutions" to your vague, undefined tripe, anyway.

way to show up to the party late without reading any of the other 7 pages of posts.

Way to respond without reading my OTHER posts, dipwad. I've already said that I'm asking for clarification BECAUSE everyone seems to be switching back and forth between the two possible topics, lwhich leads to nothing but confusion.

Now, would you like to tell me which one YOU are talking about, or would you just like to continue pointlessly shouting for solutions to a problem you flatly refuse to define?

Defining problems is beyond his capability. Hell, framing a coherent thought is beyond him.