Why do so many people from every political angle talk like we're on the path to destruction?

[Anomalism]

You think this time is more chaotic than say the 6th century? Hmm. You need to read some history.

I didn't suggest things are more or less chaotic than at various times in human history. Things are chaotic right now though. Like I said, I believe we're in transition.

 

[westwall]

Asking simple questions to get the measure of who I am speaking with isn't posturing.

Ah, got it. My bad. You prattling on about my lack of intelligence or abundance of ignorance is not posturing behavior at all. Well, just for your information, your posts reek of "I am very smart, much smarter than you!" It's a bit cringe inducing, especially when you struggle to string coherent sentences together.

I said that your over use of generalizations is either due to a weak intellect, or ignorance. I am determining which it is. If you are indeed merely 20 years old then it is ignorance. Ignorance isn't bad, it is just a level of development. Wilful ignorance, on the other hand, IS bad.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

Have you ever read Stephen R. Donaldson? His "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are quite good.

I did..years ago..his concept of the anti-hero was refreshing!

Not so big into fantasy though...Sci-fi guy.

How about Kim S. Robinson?

I couldn't work with the Donaldson anti-hero; that's not a woman's book, nor are the Cornwall ones. I've tried. I can see men would like them.

I have often seem the name Kim Robinson, but never read that author. A recommendation?

Yeah..an anti-hero that rapes..is a bit much to identify with.

Kim..Depends on what you like...his Mars trilogy is consistently mentioned in the top three all time lists of series..Red Mars, Blue Mars and Green Mars--although the tech is now old..it still is considered one of the very best terraforming books out there.

I suggest this one:

New York 2140 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Robinson is controversial..you'll have to make up your own mind. Check your preconceptions at the door..and you'll enjoy the hell out him. It is, after all, fiction, right?

Kim Stanley Robinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My only problem with him is his myopic view about sustainability. If you are merely a sustainable culture, the first natural disaster that happens and you are finished.

He is more about Post-scarcity societies..and how that forces a true Democratic Socialist society--as the corps and nation-states struggle to remain relevant, and in charge.

He is famous for predicting that Boomer would become a pejorative..and has called the period we are now in...The Dithering..in his future history series.

 

[toobfreak]

Why do so many people from every political angle talk like we're on the path to destruction? Liberals, conservatives, whatever. It seems like so many people are convinced that the world is ending and/or that everything is horrible. Are we really headed for doom?

You ask why?

1960s Normal Conservative America where tradition and wholesome values ruled:

2021 Socialist-Progressive America where every last sacred vestige of normalcy
& common sense has been attacked, ridiculed, suppressed, vilified and destroyed:

 

[Anomalism]

I said that your over use of generalizations is either due to a weak intellect, or ignorance. I am determining which it is. If you are indeed merely 20 years old then it is ignorance. Ignorance isn't bad, it is just a level of development. Wilful ignorance, on the other hand, IS bad.

I really don't care about your opinions regarding my level of knowledge or intellect. I'd like to stick to the topic if possible.

 

[westwall]

You think this time is more chaotic than say the 6th century? Hmm. You need to read some history.

I didn't suggest things are more or less chaotic than at various times in human history. Things are chaotic right now though. Like I said, I believe we're in transition.

The history of man is chaos. For the overwhelming majority of mans history it has been a story of a few elites, controlling the weak under them. Whether it is tribal leaders, or shamans, or warlords, or kings. The reality is man has been held in serfdom for the majority of his history. Then, for a brief period we have had this wonderful last couple of centuries where serfdom was abolished, a middle class developed, and man was truly on an upward trajectory. And now, the political leftist elite are trying to enslave us again. And you think that is good?

Like I said. You need to read some history.

 

[westwall]

I said that your over use of generalizations is either due to a weak intellect, or ignorance. I am determining which it is. If you are indeed merely 20 years old then it is ignorance. Ignorance isn't bad, it is just a level of development. Wilful ignorance, on the other hand, IS bad.

I really don't care about your opinions regarding my level of knowledge or intellect. I'd like to stick to the topic if possible.

I am trying to tailor my responses to you in a manner that you will understand.

 

[Anomalism]

political leftist elite are trying to enslave us again. And you think that is good?

This conversation would be more interesting if you debated me rather than your preconceived notions.

 

[westwall]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

Have you ever read Stephen R. Donaldson? His "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are quite good.

I did..years ago..his concept of the anti-hero was refreshing!

Not so big into fantasy though...Sci-fi guy.

How about Kim S. Robinson?

I couldn't work with the Donaldson anti-hero; that's not a woman's book, nor are the Cornwall ones. I've tried. I can see men would like them.

I have often seem the name Kim Robinson, but never read that author. A recommendation?

Yeah..an anti-hero that rapes..is a bit much to identify with.

Kim..Depends on what you like...his Mars trilogy is consistently mentioned in the top three all time lists of series..Red Mars, Blue Mars and Green Mars--although the tech is now old..it still is considered one of the very best terraforming books out there.

I suggest this one:

New York 2140 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Robinson is controversial..you'll have to make up your own mind. Check your preconceptions at the door..and you'll enjoy the hell out him. It is, after all, fiction, right?

Kim Stanley Robinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My only problem with him is his myopic view about sustainability. If you are merely a sustainable culture, the first natural disaster that happens and you are finished.

He is more about Post-scarcity societies..and how that forces a true Democratic Socialist society--as the corps and nation-states struggle to remain relevant, and in charge.

He is famous for predicting that Boomer would become a pejorative..and has called the period we are now in...The Dithering..in his future history series.

I will try one of his Mars books then to see if there is a grounding in reality. The problem with socialism is ultimately it never works. No matter how hard they try man is man and there are going to be too many who refuse to work.

 

[Anomalism]

I am trying to tailor my responses to you in a manner that you will understand.

I understand exactly what you're trying to say and I still disagree with you. It's not a communication issue.

 

[westwall]

political leftist elite are trying to enslave us again. And you think that is good?

This conversation would be more interesting if you debated me rather than your preconceived notions.

Then present something more than a generalization. You get what you give, sport.

 

[Anomalism]

Then present something more than a generalization. You get what you give, sport.

I'm fine with ceasing conversation with you. I'm bored.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

Have you ever read Stephen R. Donaldson? His "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are quite good.

I did..years ago..his concept of the anti-hero was refreshing!

Not so big into fantasy though...Sci-fi guy.

How about Kim S. Robinson?

I couldn't work with the Donaldson anti-hero; that's not a woman's book, nor are the Cornwall ones. I've tried. I can see men would like them.

I have often seem the name Kim Robinson, but never read that author. A recommendation?

Yeah..an anti-hero that rapes..is a bit much to identify with.

Kim..Depends on what you like...his Mars trilogy is consistently mentioned in the top three all time lists of series..Red Mars, Blue Mars and Green Mars--although the tech is now old..it still is considered one of the very best terraforming books out there.

I suggest this one:

New York 2140 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Robinson is controversial..you'll have to make up your own mind. Check your preconceptions at the door..and you'll enjoy the hell out him. It is, after all, fiction, right?

Kim Stanley Robinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My only problem with him is his myopic view about sustainability. If you are merely a sustainable culture, the first natural disaster that happens and you are finished.

He is more about Post-scarcity societies..and how that forces a true Democratic Socialist society--as the corps and nation-states struggle to remain relevant, and in charge.

He is famous for predicting that Boomer would become a pejorative..and has called the period we are now in...The Dithering..in his future history series.

I will try one of his Mars books then to see if there is a grounding in reality. The problem with socialism is ultimately it never works. No matter how hard they try man is man and there are going to be too many who refuse to work.

Read him with an open mind..his take on things is different..and can spawn some interesting ideas. Read Red first..it is a series, after all. His science is pristine..which is nice.
Tell me..as a speculation..what happens to the Capitalistic model in a post-scarcity world? What happens to the Social Democratic model in the same world?

If you didn't have to work..unless you wanted to..what would you do? Can Technology give us post-scarcity? Would our true leaders allow it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I don't think most people are talking about the entire human race disappearing off the planet.

It depends on who you talk to. Some religious conservatives think our decline in traditional values will destroy us or damn near destroy us. Some radical leftists think capitalism is going to destroy us through AGW and the destruction of our resources and habitat. I don't think humanity is in decline. That's really what you should have taken from my post.

Well, I AM a religious conservative, so . . . Last time I checked, Protestants believe humanity will hang around until God Himself says, "Okay, everyone out of the pool."

I can't argue that there are left-wing environmentalists who caterwaul about "12 years to save the planet!" and whatever. It was always my impression, though, that they thought less that humanity would be utterly wiped out, and more that the Earth itself would be turned into a horrid wasteland our remnants would wander through. Y'know, like "Mad Max", but without the cool leather clothes.

In terms of our technological ability to provide a higher standard of living, you're right. We aren't in a decline. In terms of our character quality? That's a different story. I believe that humans aren't designed to have things too easy and comfortable; we're designed to have hardship and strife, and be honed into better, stronger beings by it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm actually quite jealous of the generations that will come after me. They'll witness wonders beyond my conception."

No fair citing events that have not happened and that you cannot even imagine. That's what substitutes for most news these days --- stuff that hasn't happened and probably won't.

It's just as likely that a massive nuclear war will obliterate modern society, or that an asteroid will hit the Earth.

Has anyone ever told you that you're a ray of pure sunshine?

Nah, I didn't think so.

 

[westwall]

Then present something more than a generalization. You get what you give, sport.

I'm fine with ceasing conversation with you. I'm bored.

Bye

 

[noonereal]

Why do so many people from every political angle talk like we're on the path to destruction?

Trumpism.

Trumpism has put us in serious peril and created political stress which never existed previous.
I expect with the clown gone and Good Ole Joe righting the ship that things will relax. It will take time though.

 

[westwall]

Why do so many people from every political angle talk like we're on the path to destruction?

Trumpism.

Trumpism has put us in serious peril and created political stress which never existed previous.
I expect with the clown gone and Good Ole Joe righting the ship that things will relax. It will take time though.

Trump merely exposed the corrupt political class. Why do you support billionaires over the middle class? Why are you a racist?

 

[noonereal]

Why do so many people from every political angle talk like we're on the path to destruction?

Trumpism.

Trumpism has put us in serious peril and created political stress which never existed previous.
I expect with the clown gone and Good Ole Joe righting the ship that things will relax. It will take time though.

Trump merely exposed the corrupt political class. Why do you support billionaires over the middle class? Why are you a racist?

God Bless you.

 

[Anomalism]

Well, I AM a religious conservative, so . . . Last time I checked, Protestants believe humanity will hang around until God Himself says, "Okay, everyone out of the pool."

I can't argue that there are left-wing environmentalists who caterwaul about "12 years to save the planet!" and whatever. It was always my impression, though, that they thought less that humanity would be utterly wiped out, and more that the Earth itself would be turned into a horrid wasteland our remnants would wander through. Y'know, like "Mad Max", but without the cool leather clothes.

In terms of our technological ability to provide a higher standard of living, you're right. We aren't in a decline. In terms of our character quality? That's a different story. I believe that humans aren't designed to have things too easy and comfortable; we're designed to have hardship and strife, and be honed into better, stronger beings by it.

Do you think it's possible that an easier existence and less need to compete along with a much broader and fleshed out understanding of human psychology could give us more time, space and ability to sort through our psychological issues and ascend to something better?