Why are liberals angry at Trump for using a tax loophole that was signed into law by Obama?

[WTF19]

Simple truth. The rich are provided tax credits, deductions and cuts by every administration since Bush I. Reagan and Speaker O'Neal were the last to a lot of deductions and loopholes out of the tax codes. Since then Congress has slowly added more and more and Presidents have gone along on it.

The rich is writing the tax codes for the rich, who do you think will benefit? It's an area where the two parties agree.

We can talk about the legal tax structure, but thats only a small part of it with Trump.

The OP is about people mainly liberals upset that Trump is taking legal deductions that Obama approved during his administration. That is what I commented on.

OP is a red herring, thats what I'm talking about.

So liberals are happy that rich people are taking tax cuts set up by Obama? Since Bush gave tax cuts to the rich until Obama repealed them and to this day we hear about the tax cuts. There is no difference between tax cuts and tax credits and deductions. The effective tax rate is what matters, it is the bottom line on the taxes one pays. It's called talking out both sides of the mouth.

The rich that claim they want to pay higher taxes have the opportunity not to and they don't, they choose to pay only what they owe. People bitchin about lower tax rates say nothing about the huge loopholes the government provides the rich for tax avoidance, it is all legal.

Trump needs to pay what he is legally entitled to and no more. Trump is under no obligation to show his taxes and I have no issue with him not showing his taxes. The government can investigate his taxes if they wish and probably do. If in the future people are really want candidates to show their taxes, they can pressure Congress to write a law, otherwise it is just a stupid tradition.

You may feel the OP is a Red Herring, I don't believe it is. What government does for the rich is of legitimate concern to all Americans. Disagree all you like.

I personally think that writing off loss over longer period was a reasonable change.

Bussiness loss can easily wipe out many years of gains. 4 years is a reasonable window to write down those losses.

But again, the case against Trump is not primarily about legal loopholes, but rather illegal avoidance and huge conflicts of interest. These are not someone's "feelings" as you want to talk about it.

When Cohen testified that Trump undervalued his assets to minimize his tax liability, thats not taking advantage of the loopholes, thats fraud.

and you have a law degree from where?

 

[WTF19]

The biggest takeaway is that Trump is even more incompetent with large sums of money as he is as a fake President.

Well, we are looking at 4 Trillion dollar deficit this year...

Keynesian stimulus is okay when Trump does it. Obama only spent a trillion for the worst recession since the 30s and he was vilified for it by the very same people who are now throwing several trillion at Trump's colossal disgraceful disaster.

my god you are delusional...a trillion wasnt even enough for the ceos of all the banks asswipe BARRAG bailed out...remember your paltry 300 dollar check --those ceos got handed my taxpaying dollars, but your good with that, huh? stupidity

 

[LeftofLeft]

As a Libertarian, I’m against tax loopholes. I want the tax code to be as simple as possible, and with marginal tax rates as low as possible.

Democrats prefer higher marginal tax rates, so they can claim that they want to “soak the rich.”

But at the same time, these Democrats also favor giving rich people all sorts of loopholes, writeoffs, and deductions, so they don’t actually have to pay those taxes.

And now, liberals are angry at Trump for using a tax loophole that was signed into law by Obama.

The New York Times just reported:

Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance (Published 2020)

The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.

www.nytimes.com

Mr. Trump harvested that refund bonanza by declaring huge business losses — a total of $1.4 billion from his core businesses for 2008 and 2009 — that tax laws had prevented him from using in prior years.

But to turn that long arc of failure into a giant refund check, he relied on some deft accounting footwork and an unwitting gift from an unlikely source — Mr. Obama.

Business losses can work like a tax-avoidance coupon: A dollar lost on one business reduces a dollar of taxable income from elsewhere. The types and amounts of income that can be used in a given year vary, depending on an owner’s tax status. But some losses can be saved for later use, or even used to request a refund on taxes paid in a prior year.

Until 2009, those coupons could be used to wipe away taxes going back only two years. But that November, the window was more than doubled by a little-noticed provision in a bill Mr. Obama signed as part of the Great Recession recovery effort. Now business owners could request full refunds of taxes paid in the prior four years, and 50 percent of those from the year before that.

Mr. Trump had paid no income taxes in 2008. But the change meant that when he filed his taxes for 2009, he could seek a refund of not just the $13.3 million he had paid in 2007, but also the combined $56.9 million paid in 2005 and 2006, when “The Apprentice” created what was likely the biggest income tax bite of his life.

The records reviewed by The Times indicate that Mr. Trump filed for the first of several tranches of his refund several weeks later, in January 2010. That set off what tax professionals refer to as a “quickie refund,” a check processed in 90 days on a tentative basis, pending an audit by the I.R.S.

His total federal income tax refund would eventually grow to $70.1 million, plus $2,733,184 in interest. He also received $21.2 million in state and local refunds, which often piggyback on federal filings.

At issue is NOT Trump's legal tax avoidance. At issue is Trump's ILLEGAL tax evasion.

It's not unreasonable to write off loss over time, but it IS wrong (and in fact criminal) to understate your income and assets to get out of paying taxes. Michael Cohen testified to Trump doing just that - inflating his assets on one side to take on credit and understating it for tax purposes.

To almost never pay taxes Trump has to be either a giant loser, giant cheat, or some mix of the two.

Trump has been audited every year for decades like every other billionaire. Funny how the IRS hasn't figured that out and you did.

Oh wait, I get it now, you're lying. OMG, how did I not see that sooner???

IRS has had a decade long despute with Trump and he is currently being investigated for tax fraud in NY.

What "dispute" is that?

Well all know that the New York AG is a political hack. Nothing she does has anything to do with enforcing the law.

...

Trump initially paid $95 million in taxes over the 18 years it studied. But he managed to recover most of that money by claiming — and receiving — a stunning $72.9 million federal tax refund. According to the Times, Trump also pocketed $21.2 million in state and local refunds, which are typically based on federal filings.

Trump’s outsize refund became the subject of a now-long-standing Internal Revenue Service audit of his finances. The audit was widely known. Trump has claimed it was the very reason why he cannot release his returns. But the Times report is the first to identify the issue that was mainly in dispute.

5 takeaways from NY Times report on Trump’s tax returns

Since entering the White House, Trump has broken with tradition set by his predecessors by not only refusing to release his tax returns but by waging a legal battle to keep them hidden.

www.wcjb.com

$72 million? What is "outsized" about that for a billionaire?

Trump claims to be a billionare and maybe he has assets he can liquidate to actually access that money...but just looking at his tax returns he is no a billionare, he is indebted loser just scraping by.

Did you imagine he had $10 billion lying around in a bank account somewhere?

Tax returns don't show your net worth, moron.

Every time you post on this subject all you do is demonstrate your ignorance and sheer idiocy.

...which is exactly why I say that maybe he does have assets he can liquidate, but his stated income to IRS over the last 20 years or so show a big time loser or perhaps large liability evasion - either way, it doesn't add up well.

you should try to actually READ what you reply to.

The reason you say that is the fact that you're a fucking moron. As I already pointed out to you, but you are too stupid to understand, no billionaire has all his money in cash in a bank account. You pretend as if he would have to liquidate assets to produce $1 billion in cash is something he has to make excuses for. That's because you're an idiot.

You don't know what Trump's stated income is over the last 10 years. All you know is what some news story reported about his taxes.

The phrase "big time loser" is meaningless. It's purely a value judgement on your part based on nothing.

What the fuck is a "large liability evasion?" Is that supposed to be a crime? The IRS audited his taxes, moron. If he committed any crimes, then he would be in jail.

Today’s IRS can flag any return based on even the most granular criteria especially in the age of Artificial Intelligence and automation. These liberals would have us believe that the NYT reporters are better at finding something to charge Trump with in his tax returns vs. the IRS. Come on people, THINK!

 

[MisterBeale]

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand the issue either.

The guy has taken losses, and lots of liberal elites admit to not paying taxes because of the tax code.

Is anyone really surprised?

You don't understand because you have not read the entire NYT article.

Imagine that.

They cite several examples of possible fraud on the part of Mr. Trump but most of Trump's sheep will never read it because it is far longer than a tweet.

Baaaaaa!

. . . . state and interlocking directorate propaganda. . .

 

[AntonToo]

Simple truth. The rich are provided tax credits, deductions and cuts by every administration since Bush I. Reagan and Speaker O'Neal were the last to a lot of deductions and loopholes out of the tax codes. Since then Congress has slowly added more and more and Presidents have gone along on it.

The rich is writing the tax codes for the rich, who do you think will benefit? It's an area where the two parties agree.

We can talk about the legal tax structure, but thats only a small part of it with Trump.

The OP is about people mainly liberals upset that Trump is taking legal deductions that Obama approved during his administration. That is what I commented on.

OP is a red herring, thats what I'm talking about.

So liberals are happy that rich people are taking tax cuts set up by Obama? Since Bush gave tax cuts to the rich until Obama repealed them and to this day we hear about the tax cuts. There is no difference between tax cuts and tax credits and deductions. The effective tax rate is what matters, it is the bottom line on the taxes one pays. It's called talking out both sides of the mouth.

The rich that claim they want to pay higher taxes have the opportunity not to and they don't, they choose to pay only what they owe. People bitchin about lower tax rates say nothing about the huge loopholes the government provides the rich for tax avoidance, it is all legal.

Trump needs to pay what he is legally entitled to and no more. Trump is under no obligation to show his taxes and I have no issue with him not showing his taxes. The government can investigate his taxes if they wish and probably do. If in the future people are really want candidates to show their taxes, they can pressure Congress to write a law, otherwise it is just a stupid tradition.

You may feel the OP is a Red Herring, I don't believe it is. What government does for the rich is of legitimate concern to all Americans. Disagree all you like.

I personally think that writing off loss over longer period was a reasonable change.

Bussiness loss can easily wipe out many years of gains. 4 years is a reasonable window to write down those losses.

But again, the case against Trump is not primarily about legal loopholes, but rather illegal avoidance and huge conflicts of interest. These are not someone's "feelings" as you want to talk about it.

When Cohen testified that Trump undervalued his assets to minimize his tax liability, thats not taking advantage of the loopholes, thats fraud.

and you have a law degree from where?

...because only lawyers can discuss these topics? is that your braindead point?

 

[WTF19]

Simple truth. The rich are provided tax credits, deductions and cuts by every administration since Bush I. Reagan and Speaker O'Neal were the last to a lot of deductions and loopholes out of the tax codes. Since then Congress has slowly added more and more and Presidents have gone along on it.

The rich is writing the tax codes for the rich, who do you think will benefit? It's an area where the two parties agree.

We can talk about the legal tax structure, but thats only a small part of it with Trump.

The OP is about people mainly liberals upset that Trump is taking legal deductions that Obama approved during his administration. That is what I commented on.

OP is a red herring, thats what I'm talking about.

So liberals are happy that rich people are taking tax cuts set up by Obama? Since Bush gave tax cuts to the rich until Obama repealed them and to this day we hear about the tax cuts. There is no difference between tax cuts and tax credits and deductions. The effective tax rate is what matters, it is the bottom line on the taxes one pays. It's called talking out both sides of the mouth.

The rich that claim they want to pay higher taxes have the opportunity not to and they don't, they choose to pay only what they owe. People bitchin about lower tax rates say nothing about the huge loopholes the government provides the rich for tax avoidance, it is all legal.

Trump needs to pay what he is legally entitled to and no more. Trump is under no obligation to show his taxes and I have no issue with him not showing his taxes. The government can investigate his taxes if they wish and probably do. If in the future people are really want candidates to show their taxes, they can pressure Congress to write a law, otherwise it is just a stupid tradition.

You may feel the OP is a Red Herring, I don't believe it is. What government does for the rich is of legitimate concern to all Americans. Disagree all you like.

I personally think that writing off loss over longer period was a reasonable change.

Bussiness loss can easily wipe out many years of gains. 4 years is a reasonable window to write down those losses.

But again, the case against Trump is not primarily about legal loopholes, but rather illegal avoidance and huge conflicts of interest. These are not someone's "feelings" as you want to talk about it.

When Cohen testified that Trump undervalued his assets to minimize his tax liability, thats not taking advantage of the loopholes, thats fraud.

and you have a law degree from where?

...because only lawyers can discuss these topics? is that your braindead point?

no, my point was your point is brain dead....and treason is using the powers to investigate a competitor ...pretty hard to compare but just wanted to see which is more important to you....taxes of course

 

[MisterBeale]

A poisonous snake bites a man on the leg. He decides to call the snakebite a hoax and ignore it. He waves away a doctor with anti-venom.

"It will go away. Like a miracle."

Later, as he lays dying, he exclaims, "I am not to blame for the snake!"

This is the type of profoundly retarded thinking we see among the Trump sheep.

How many people are dying solely from the snake bite vs. snake bite plus other pre-existing conditions? How many people’s deaths are being classified as the cause of death even though they never came in contact with the snake?

We have the MOST COVID DEATHS IN THE WORLD.

You can all jive and dance all day long, you aren't fooling anyone but yourselves.

What is the breakdown of COVID + Preexisting Conditions vs. COVID stand-alone deaths? What is your source?

Yeah, he is going to keep repeating that talking point till it sticks.

But every nation measures their infection rate and death rate from Covid entirely differently, the medical establishment and health bureaucracy have a political and economic agenda to have the highest infection and death count from the disease as possible. They are incentivized here to push those numbers up, so any comparison with the rest of the world? That is entirely meaningless.

Most of those health administrators are as left as left can be.

Here is a good example of how it goes in Europe, you won't find any good reporting on cross cultural comparison in our media compared to Europe and Asia. . . because, duh, why would you?



Tracking the coronavirus: why does each country count deaths differently?
France only records Covid-19 fatalities in hospitals, Spain does not include unconfirmed cases in senior homes, and the Netherlands only tests hospitalized patients

Tracking the coronavirus: why does each country count deaths differently?

France only records Covid-19 fatalities in hospitals, Spain does not include unconfirmed cases in senior homes, and the Netherlands only tests hospitalized patients

english.elpais.com

 

[bripat9643]

Simple truth. The rich are provided tax credits, deductions and cuts by every administration since Bush I. Reagan and Speaker O'Neal were the last to a lot of deductions and loopholes out of the tax codes. Since then Congress has slowly added more and more and Presidents have gone along on it.

The rich is writing the tax codes for the rich, who do you think will benefit? It's an area where the two parties agree.

We can talk about the legal tax structure, but thats only a small part of it with Trump.

The OP is about people mainly liberals upset that Trump is taking legal deductions that Obama approved during his administration. That is what I commented on.

OP is a red herring, thats what I'm talking about.

So liberals are happy that rich people are taking tax cuts set up by Obama? Since Bush gave tax cuts to the rich until Obama repealed them and to this day we hear about the tax cuts. There is no difference between tax cuts and tax credits and deductions. The effective tax rate is what matters, it is the bottom line on the taxes one pays. It's called talking out both sides of the mouth.

The rich that claim they want to pay higher taxes have the opportunity not to and they don't, they choose to pay only what they owe. People bitchin about lower tax rates say nothing about the huge loopholes the government provides the rich for tax avoidance, it is all legal.

Trump needs to pay what he is legally entitled to and no more. Trump is under no obligation to show his taxes and I have no issue with him not showing his taxes. The government can investigate his taxes if they wish and probably do. If in the future people are really want candidates to show their taxes, they can pressure Congress to write a law, otherwise it is just a stupid tradition.

You may feel the OP is a Red Herring, I don't believe it is. What government does for the rich is of legitimate concern to all Americans. Disagree all you like.

I personally think that writing off loss over longer period was a reasonable change.

Bussiness loss can easily wipe out many years of gains. 4 years is a reasonable window to write down those losses.

But again, the case against Trump is not primarily about legal loopholes, but rather illegal evasion and huge conflicts of interest. These are not someone's "feelings" as you want to talk about it.

When Cohen testified that Trump undervalued his assets to minimize his tax liability, thats not taking advantage of the loopholes, thats fraud.

There is no case of tax evasion, moron. If there was, the IRS would have put him in jail. He was just audited.

You have no "case." Just admit it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Simple truth. The rich are provided tax credits, deductions and cuts by every administration since Bush I. Reagan and Speaker O'Neal were the last to a lot of deductions and loopholes out of the tax codes. Since then Congress has slowly added more and more and Presidents have gone along on it.

The rich is writing the tax codes for the rich, who do you think will benefit? It's an area where the two parties agree.

We can talk about the legal tax structure, but thats only a small part of it with Trump.

The OP is about people mainly liberals upset that Trump is taking legal deductions that Obama approved during his administration. That is what I commented on.

OP is a red herring, thats what I'm talking about.

So liberals are happy that rich people are taking tax cuts set up by Obama? Since Bush gave tax cuts to the rich until Obama repealed them and to this day we hear about the tax cuts. There is no difference between tax cuts and tax credits and deductions. The effective tax rate is what matters, it is the bottom line on the taxes one pays. It's called talking out both sides of the mouth.

The rich that claim they want to pay higher taxes have the opportunity not to and they don't, they choose to pay only what they owe. People bitchin about lower tax rates say nothing about the huge loopholes the government provides the rich for tax avoidance, it is all legal.

Trump needs to pay what he is legally entitled to and no more. Trump is under no obligation to show his taxes and I have no issue with him not showing his taxes. The government can investigate his taxes if they wish and probably do. If in the future people are really want candidates to show their taxes, they can pressure Congress to write a law, otherwise it is just a stupid tradition.

You may feel the OP is a Red Herring, I don't believe it is. What government does for the rich is of legitimate concern to all Americans. Disagree all you like.

I personally think that writing off loss over longer period was a reasonable change.

Bussiness loss can easily wipe out many years of gains. 4 years is a reasonable window to write down those losses.

But again, the case against Trump is not primarily about legal loopholes, but rather illegal evasion and huge conflicts of interest. These are not someone's "feelings" as you want to talk about it.

When Cohen testified that Trump undervalued his assets to minimize his tax liability, thats not taking advantage of the loopholes, thats fraud.

No proof exists that there is tax evasion, just opinion. Cohen's testimony is of one man, so until that is confirmed, that is speculation.

I'm not saying there is nothing there however, I have been one to push the innocent until proven guilty theory. So, just like with many issues. I am not going to guilt or innocence based on speculation.

 

[BluesLegend]

Democrats are frustrated, they can't defeat Trump on the issues, the economy, trade, foreign policy, jobs, none of these issues are winnable. So true to form Dems pin their hopes on personal attacks like Trumps taxes. It's sad really, the party that used to win on the issues has been reduced to rubble.

Like the fool you are, you look at the news of Trump's financial losses as a "personal attacks". You're one of the ones who couldn't see the need for tax returns at all. The tax returns are proof that Trump has been lying to you since he came down the escalator. He's not a rich successful businessman. He a big, fat liar, who is in deep financial doggey doo, with $421 million coming due in the next few years and no way to pay it.

Democrats can beat Trump on the issues all day long. The economy is crashed. The trade deficit has grown in every year of Trump's Presidency. Countries you used to have a trade surplus with, you now have a deficit with - like Canada. Jobs - highest unemployment in history. Americans are dying at the rate of 1000 people per day from covid19.

But fools like you keep saying that Trump is a successful businessman, despite all evidence to the contrary. If you're basing your vote for Trump on your belief that he's a self-made billionaire, your vote is based on a lie. But Donald Trump's inability to run a successful business has been on full display in his mismanagement of the covid19.

You voted for the most unqualified, unsuccessful businessman in American history to run the country, and look at the mess he made of it. He lied about everything, and you're so stupid, you're going to vote for him anyway. There really is no cure for stupid.

Welcome to the ignore list lounge.

 

[ralfy]

Meet the 18 profitable companies that paid no taxes over 8 years

Between an array of loopholes and laws that encourage tax-avoidance, even companies that mint profits can skip out

www.cbsnews.com

President Donald Trump and the GOP leadership have vowed to reduce U.S. corporate taxes, arguing that the statutory 35 percent rate is far too high.

But thanks to loopholes and tax-minimization strategies, few large, profitable corporations actually pay that rate. Among the roughly half of Fortune 500 companies that were consistently profitable between 2008 and 2015, the effective federal income tax rate was 21.2 percent over that eight-year period, according to a study from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. Eighteen of them, including General Electric (GE) and Priceline.com (PCLN), paid no federal income taxes during that time.

That's a lie. Those companies paid tons of taxes. You don't know WTF you are talking about

LOL.

 

[buckeye45_73]

This is not about Obama or a loophole.

So what's the problem then?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Democrats are frustrated, they can't defeat Trump on the issues, the economy, trade, foreign policy, jobs, none of these issues are winnable. So true to form Dems pin their hopes on personal attacks like Trumps taxes. It's sad really, the party that used to win on the issues has been reduced to rubble.

Like the fool you are, you look at the news of Trump's financial losses as a "personal attacks". You're one of the ones who couldn't see the need for tax returns at all. The tax returns are proof that Trump has been lying to you since he came down the escalator. He's not a rich successful businessman. He a big, fat liar, who is in deep financial doggey doo, with $421 million coming due in the next few years and no way to pay it.

Democrats can beat Trump on the issues all day long. The economy is crashed. The trade deficit has grown in every year of Trump's Presidency. Countries you used to have a trade surplus with, you now have a deficit with - like Canada. Jobs - highest unemployment in history. Americans are dying at the rate of 1000 people per day from covid19.

But fools like you keep saying that Trump is a successful businessman, despite all evidence to the contrary. If you're basing your vote for Trump on your belief that he's a self-made billionaire, your vote is based on a lie. But Donald Trump's inability to run a successful business has been on full display in his mismanagement of the covid19.

You voted for the most unqualified, unsuccessful businessman in American history to run the country, and look at the mess he made of it. He lied about everything, and you're so stupid, you're going to vote for him anyway. There really is no cure for stupid.

I just posted this in another thread

Donald Trump is a lot less rich today than when he was elected president | CNN Politics

President Donald Trump said in October 2019 that being president is costing him money. Lots of it.

www.cnn.com

In 2016, Trump was worth $3.7 billion, according to Forbes. That dropped to $3.1 billion in 2017 and held there for 2018 and 2019. But this year Trump's net worth dropped to $2.5 billion. That $600 million decline led Trump to drop from the 275th richest person in America in 2019 to the 352nd richest in 2020 -- a drop of 77 spots. (It took a net worth of $2.1 billion to make the top 400.)



Content by CNN Underscored
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Why the dip in Trump's fortune? The coronavirus pandemic. "The value of office buildings, hotels and resorts have taken a hit amid the pandemic," reads the Forbes release on Trump's wealth.
Now, $2.5 billion is still a lot of money. Like, a LOT of money. And being one of the richest 400 people in America is pretty exclusive company. But if you don't think that the decline in his overall wealth and his position on the Forbes 400 will irk Trump, then you don't know Trump


It's not his business acumen, it's the circumstances, once the panic is over, he'll move back up......but $2.5 billion is still alot of cash.

 

[Claudette]

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand the issue either.

The guy has taken losses, and lots of liberal elites admit to not paying taxes because of the tax code.

Is anyone really surprised?

Well they have had all kinds of time to change the tax code yet none of them do.

Guess the politicians, who go into politics with nothing and come out millionaires want to protect their millions.

 

[kaz]

Meet the 18 profitable companies that paid no taxes over 8 years

Between an array of loopholes and laws that encourage tax-avoidance, even companies that mint profits can skip out

www.cbsnews.com

President Donald Trump and the GOP leadership have vowed to reduce U.S. corporate taxes, arguing that the statutory 35 percent rate is far too high.

But thanks to loopholes and tax-minimization strategies, few large, profitable corporations actually pay that rate. Among the roughly half of Fortune 500 companies that were consistently profitable between 2008 and 2015, the effective federal income tax rate was 21.2 percent over that eight-year period, according to a study from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. Eighteen of them, including General Electric (GE) and Priceline.com (PCLN), paid no federal income taxes during that time.

That's a lie. Those companies paid tons of taxes. You don't know WTF you are talking about

LOL.

ralfy is too stupid and clueless to know that corporate income tax is only one tax paid by corporations