Why 2nd Amendment supporters who support mandatory training are wrong….

[2aguy]

Rights always come with restrictions. You have freedom of speech. But you can claim freedom of speech if you are on top of an overturned police car with a flaming bottle in hand shouting Charge!

You have freedom of Religion, but you can’t sacrifice Virgins at midnight and claim Religious Freedom.

You have the right to peaceably assemble. But the jurisdiction you are at may require you to take certain precautions and get enough Porta Johns to maintain sanitation in the crowd.

You have the right to an attorney. But that right does not extend to protect you from penalties from conspiring with the attorney to commit crimes.

All rights come with restrictions. All of them. Including the Second Amendment Rights.

You have the right to keep and bear arms. But that right doesn’t extend to a Court House. Or an airport. Or a sea port. Or a lot of other locations.

So I have no problem with some basic standards. I agree that the Jersey requirements are too strict. However I am chalking it up to experts deciding that this was the minimum tactical shooting skills to carry effectively instead of trying to keep anyone from carrying.

I would support basic proficiency testing. But not the advanced Taran Tactical Course as a minimum.

You have freedom of Religion, but you can’t sacrifice Virgins at midnight and claim Religious Freedom.
Before you can open a church, or attend that church you will have to pass a government created test that shows the government that you know the tenets of your religion to the satisfaction of the government.....
You have the right to peaceably assemble. But the jurisdiction you are at may require you to take certain precautions and get enough Porta Johns to maintain sanitation in the crowd.
You have the Right to assemble but first you must pass a test showing you know all of the municiple codes related to assembling in public....

You have the right to an attorney. But that right does not extend to protect you from penalties from conspiring with the attorney to commit crimes.

Yes...you have the Right to an attorney but first you must pass a test on the history and related laws that give you that Right to make sure you understand the Right.....

This is why what you are saying is dumb......

 

[Blues Man]

The idea that Gun Owners should know how to safely use their weapons is unAmerican

We have a Second Amendment right to randomly fire our weapons

Where in the 2A does it say you have a right to fire your gun anywhere?

It doesn't. In fact where and when you can fire a gun are very strictly controlled in almost all populated areas of the country.

 

[Blues Man]

Rights always come with restrictions. You have freedom of speech. But you can claim freedom of speech if you are on top of an overturned police car with a flaming bottle in hand shouting Charge!

You have freedom of Religion, but you can’t sacrifice Virgins at midnight and claim Religious Freedom.

You have the right to peaceably assemble. But the jurisdiction you are at may require you to take certain precautions and get enough Porta Johns to maintain sanitation in the crowd.

You have the right to an attorney. But that right does not extend to protect you from penalties from conspiring with the attorney to commit crimes.

All rights come with restrictions. All of them. Including the Second Amendment Rights.

You have the right to keep and bear arms. But that right doesn’t extend to a Court House. Or an airport. Or a sea port. Or a lot of other locations.

So I have no problem with some basic standards. I agree that the Jersey requirements are too strict. However I am chalking it up to experts deciding that this was the minimum tactical shooting skills to carry effectively instead of trying to keep anyone from carrying.

I would support basic proficiency testing. But not the advanced Taran Tactical Course as a minimum.

The 2nd A does not give anyone the right to fire his guns wherever and whenever he wants and in fact where and when and under what specific circumstances a citizen can discharge a weapon are tightly controlled in all populated areas in this country.

There is your restriction

 

[Pete7469]

The idea that Gun Owners should know how to safely use their weapons is unAmerican

We have a Second Amendment right to randomly fire our weapons

These bed wetters are FREAKISHLY STUPID.

 

[Blues Man]

You have freedom of Religion, but you can’t sacrifice Virgins at midnight and claim Religious Freedom.
Before you can open a church, or attend that church you will have to pass a government created test that shows the government that you know the tenets of your religion to the satisfaction of the government.....
You have the right to peaceably assemble. But the jurisdiction you are at may require you to take certain precautions and get enough Porta Johns to maintain sanitation in the crowd.
You have the Right to assemble but first you must pass a test showing you know all of the municiple codes related to assembling in public....



Yes...you have the Right to an attorney but first you must pass a test on the history and related laws that give you that Right to make sure you understand the Right.....

This is why what you are saying is dumb......

Exactly

If you don't pay for a training class on each of your rights then you're shit out of luck because one right is never subordinate to any other

What you require for one you must require for all

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I would support basic proficiency testing.

Just like your forebears supported basic literacy testing to demonstrate that one was competent to vote.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Yes...you can't use a gun to commit a crime. That is a restriction on a Right.

Not really.

The right to keep and bear arms does not include nor imply any right to use one's arms to unjustly harm, endanger, or threaten anyone.

It's not a restriction on the right itself; it's a restriction on behavior that is deemed unacceptable regardless of whether one engages in it in connection with one's exercise of an otherwise legitimate right.

 

[Failzero]

They are as wrong as the Purists who support open carry .

 

[Failzero]

2

Just like your forebears supported basic literacy testing to demonstrate that one was competent to vote.

2A / RTKBA should have “ Prohibited Persons” ( Illegals ) ( Visa Overstayers ) ( Foreign Combatants / Chinese Overseas Commandos / Sappers / Spy Handlers ) ( Convicted Pedos ) ( Convicted Felons ) ( Adjudicated Mentally unstable ) ( Drug Abusers and people seeing two Shrinks & a Psychologist who have had more than 1 51/50 ) ...

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes...you can't use a gun to commit a crime. That is a restriction on a Right.

You can't vote unless you pass an impossible Literacy Test is not a restriction, it is a prohibition on that Right. You want to use mandatory training to prohibit normal people from accessing their Right to self defense...

If you stated you need a government license to write books or newspapers, use a computer or attend church....that is what you want for gun ownership and carrying a gun for self defense......

You democrats have been using the same tactics to deny Rights that you used after Republicans freed blacks from your slavery........you used Literacy Tests to keep blacks from voting.....using the same logic...it is a minor restriction so it isn't an infringement....so no pass the test...no vote.......now you are simply using the same tactic for guns....and you will move on to other Rights as you think you can get away with it......we saw this with the Chinese flu when you shut down churches....

What did I say were the restrictions I would support again?

A class covering the laws concerning use of force and the right and responsibilities of a CCW individual.

The ability to put 2/3 of the rounds in the black at 25 yards.

Basic proficiency. An 8 hour class isn’t going to give you a law degree. But it might save you from hiring someone with a law degree to defend you from a serious Felony charge.

The ability to put ten rounds out of fifteen in the target at 25 yards.

If you can’t do that you are a danger to yourself. You are going to be charged with shooting a bystander if you ever pull your Weapon.

I’m talking slow fire. No time limit. Those reasonable standards are not onerous. They are not impossible.

 

[SavannahMann]

You have freedom of Religion, but you can’t sacrifice Virgins at midnight and claim Religious Freedom.
Before you can open a church, or attend that church you will have to pass a government created test that shows the government that you know the tenets of your religion to the satisfaction of the government.....
You have the right to peaceably assemble. But the jurisdiction you are at may require you to take certain precautions and get enough Porta Johns to maintain sanitation in the crowd.
You have the Right to assemble but first you must pass a test showing you know all of the municiple codes related to assembling in public....



Yes...you have the Right to an attorney but first you must pass a test on the history and related laws that give you that Right to make sure you understand the Right.....

This is why what you are saying is dumb......

Hey. Don’t complain when some good American is facing charges for doing the wrong thing with his weapon. Don’t blame the Liberals. Don’t blame the left. Blame yourself.

 

[2aguy]

What did I say were the restrictions I would support again?

A class covering the laws concerning use of force and the right and responsibilities of a CCW individual.

The ability to put 2/3 of the rounds in the black at 25 yards.

Basic proficiency. An 8 hour class isn’t going to give you a law degree. But it might save you from hiring someone with a law degree to defend you from a serious Felony charge.

The ability to put ten rounds out of fifteen in the target at 25 yards.

If you can’t do that you are a danger to yourself. You are going to be charged with shooting a bystander if you ever pull your Weapon.

I’m talking slow fire. No time limit. Those reasonable standards are not onerous. They are not impossible.

Nope......again, settting thoses standards is simply a way to deny people the ability to own and carry a gun.

What you are talking about isn't what they are talking about....this isn't about competency, this is about stopping normal people from owning and carrying a gun and no matter how you pretend it isn't...it is.

 

[2aguy]

Hey. Don’t complain when some good American is facing charges for doing the wrong thing with his weapon. Don’t blame the Liberals. Don’t blame the left. Blame yourself.

I will blame the left. They are the ones who make it impossible for normal people to do the Right thing.

 

[SavannahMann]

I will blame the left. They are the ones who make it impossible for normal people to do the Right thing.

No. No no no. The laws are on the books. Ignorance is no excuse. If you want to play roulette with your future be my guest. Don’t blame the left because the laws don’t say what you think they should. Blame the criminal who violated those laws. Those laws have been on the books for decades in most cases. It’s not the Lefts fault you all don’t want to obey them.

 

[SavannahMann]

Nope......again, settting thoses standards is simply a way to deny people the ability to own and carry a gun.

What you are talking about isn't what they are talking about....this isn't about competency, this is about stopping normal people from owning and carrying a gun and no matter how you pretend it isn't...it is.

And if you were pushing for a reasonable standard like I described I’d be on board. But you aren’t. You want the freedom without the consequences.

 

[2aguy]

And if you were pushing for a reasonable standard like I described I’d be on board. But you aren’t. You want the freedom without the consequences.

You want to end the Right through government control. We have seen what you democrats do......again....you didn't want free blacks to vote, so you created Literacy Tests and Poll Taxes.....telling us that this was common sense and necessary....mandatory training, as we already see in New Jersey, New York, D.C. and other democrat party fascist cities, is nothing more than another way to keep people from owning guns....

There is no other truth here. That is all mandatory training is.

 

[Blues Man]

No. No no no. The laws are on the books. Ignorance is no excuse. If you want to play roulette with your future be my guest. Don’t blame the left because the laws don’t say what you think they should. Blame the criminal who violated those laws. Those laws have been on the books for decades in most cases. It’s not the Lefts fault you all don’t want to obey them.

Except the left doesn't want to punish the criminals they want to punish the people who didn't break the law by taking away their rights.

 

[Blues Man]

And if you were pushing for a reasonable standard like I described I’d be on board. But you aren’t. You want the freedom without the consequences.

OK so then you have to pay for and pass a class before you can exercise any of your rights.

Didn't pay for and take the class on voting? You can't vote.
Didn't pay for and take the class on the 4th Amendment than your house can be searched and your property seized with out cause or a warrant.
Didn't pay for and take a class on the first amendment then you cannot exercise you rights to religion speech and assembly.

 

[Dadoalex]

There are several 2nd Amendment supporters here on U.S.message board who support the mandatory training to own and/or carry a gun. They smugly state they don’t mind the democrat tactic because they can pass the test so everyone should pass the test or be denied their Constitutional Right. They refuse to understand that allowing the democrats to require mandatory tests is giving the democrats the ability to deny access to guns for normal people through arbitrary, impossible testing standards……standards that will be created with the intent to keep people from owning and carrying guns ……

New Jersey mandatory training shows how they will do this….

Twenty-five yards is also a totally unrealistic test for civilian concealed carry. While there are certainly a few incredible exceptions, most justifiable deadly-force encounters involving civilians occur at much closer ranges, usually within spitting distance.

Open carry holster​

This qualification course is designed to use an open-carry holster, worn either outside or inside the waistband. However, only law enforcement officers can openly carry handguns in New Jersey. Civilians must carry their defensive firearms concealed.
————
Like drawing from the holster, most private ranges don’t allow their customers to practice from the kneeling position. One range I know that did quickly abandoned the practice after a customer positioned their target too close and put five rounds into the ceiling.

Additionally, there are many shooters who can’t kneel because they suffer mobility issues or use a wheelchair. Will they be denied their Second Amendment rights because of their disability?

Forcing applicants to kneel violates the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires “state and local governments including their criminal justice agencies to comply with the ADA.”

New Jersey’s AG and its state police should be ashamed of their “ableist” misdeeds.
———
What’s not laughable is that anti-gun elected officials have come up with yet another way to infringe upon the Second Amendment by reworking an antiquated police qualification course and making it mandatory for anyone who wants to exercise their right to carry a gun New Jersey has erected an unconstitutionally high hurdle for the average person to clear to qualify for a carry permit.

Let's Take a Look at New Jersey's New 'John Wick' Concealed Carry Permit Qualifying Standards - The Truth About Guns

By Lee Williams After the U.S. Supreme Court issued its historic Bruen decision, which obliterated most state restrictions on the public carrying of arms and changed forever how lower courts should decide Second Amendment-related challenges to anti-gun regulations, many blue states seemingly...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

After the Republican Party defeated the democrat party in the Civil War, the democrats were forced to free black slaves……to keep their former black slaves from being able to vote, the democrat party created “literacy tests.” The democrats had made it illegal for their black slaves to learn to read so the democrats knew that freed blacks would not be able to pass their tests….and would lose their
Right to vote…..,

These arbitrary and impossible test standards are simply the new literacy tests of the democrat party……and they are hoping to take back the Senate so that if Biden wins, they can replace Thomas and Alito and make tests like these and other anti-guns laws permanent…

Quite the legal "stretch" there armstrong.

 

[Dadoalex]

Exactly correct -- Blue states, run by Democrats who hate the right to keep and bear arms - will fall over themselves to write impossible-to-meet training requirements, as a means to eliminate said right to keep and bear arms.

NJ CCW training requirements are just an example.

Then why not take part and ensure your ideas are heard?

The concept that weapons training is "bad" in a country with 400M firearms and 40K firearms deaths every years is just plain stupid.

How many children die each year because someone didn't properly store a firearm?
How many people die each year because someone forgot to clear the chamber?

These are the things that training would reinforce.

To oppose training is simply to stand mindlessly on an absent principle.