Who Will Go To Heaven?

[Avatar4321]

"Or do you think that women who braid their hair and wear gold wedding bands should go to hell?"

Dont know where it mentions wedding bands, but then again neither of these things are life and death matters.

 

[musicman]

Originally posted by SinisterMotives
[/B]

Regarding the genetic origin of sexual orientation, you stated, " I can't say about that one way or the other." But the point is, you DID say. You said that we're born either gay or straight as if it were gospel. It's that kind of blanket acceptance of demonstrable untruths that's going to drag us down.

I'm not copping out, I promise you. Just because we're doomed doesn't mean I'm going down without a fight.

As to perversions: A generation ago, listed with the perversions that society would never accept, along with pedophilia and bestiality, would have been homosexuality. Now we debate about gay marriages. A generation ago, Michael Jackson would have been pushing up daisies, slaughtered by an irate father, and society would have thrown the guy a parade. I reiterate, attitudes can be adjusted, morals inexorably eroded.

 

[wonderwench]

Read Second Timothy Chapter 2.

So, you are saying that we all can decide what is important in the afterlife and what isn't? That some of the Bible really isn't to be taken seriously?

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
Well thats probably because no one is born gay. There is no reason to believe in biological because if it was it would have been culled out of the human gene pool centuries ago.

Whether there is reason to believe anyone is born gay is debatable. If you had been reading, you'd have seen the post where one guy cited a study that showed sexual orientation is determined by hormone levels during gestation. Hopefully he will post a link to it so we can all see what he was talking about. In short, there is a reason to believe it is biological, because the alternative would be that the guy lied about having read an article that shows it is. I'm not ready to call him a liar until he's had a chance to present the evidence he cited.

Originally posted by Avatar4321
There is a reason they call it Sexual "Preference" you know.

"They" haven't called it that in years. The correct term is "sexual orientation."

Originally posted by Avatar4321
As for extreme amount of willpower. it doesnt take that much will power to abstain. especially if you know that in a few years you will probably be married. Problem is few people ever try it.

It's not likely that I will be married in a few years, but I'm not going to wait around until I do get married to have sex. Nor am I going to try and tell someone else not to do something that I do myself just because their sexual orientation is different from mine.

 

[SinisterMotives]

By the way, those of you who keep mangling people's posts when you quote them really ought to learn how to use the quote button. I'm tired of hand-editing your mistakes when I quote you.

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by musicman
Regarding the genetic origin of sexual orientation, you stated, " I can't say about that one way or the other." But the point is, you DID say. You said that we're born either gay or straight as if it were gospel.

My statement was based on something someone said earlier. I have no reason to believe he lied about the study or its results. If you'll be patient, he will probably post it and we'll all see what it says. If it turns out that he or I was wrong, I'll gladly eat crow. However, I don't think he would grossly misinterpret what he read nor deliberately misinform me about it.

 

[Joz]

Originally posted by wonderwench
Read Second Timothy Chapter 2.

So, you are saying that we all can decide what is important in the afterlife and what isn't? That some of the Bible really isn't to be taken seriously?

I just read 2 Timothy 2. I not sure what you're trying to say. If you're trying to say that this is a profane & senseless discussion (verse 16), I'm sorry you feel that way.
Also the 'afterlife' is not the subject here.

 

[Bern80]

Trying to get a little caught up here, but are you all still working under the assumption that there is a heaven?

 

[Bern80]

Originally posted by wonderwench
That some of the Bible really isn't to be taken seriously?

you got it

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by Bern80
Trying to get a little caught up here, but are you all still working under the assumption that there is a heaven?

I think a few people are working under that assumption, as well as the assumption that God condemns homosexual behavior. We're also waiting on documentation that shows sexual orientation is determined before birth.

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by Joz
I just read 2 Timothy 2. I not sure what you're trying to say. If you're trying to say that this is a profane & senseless discussion (verse 16), I'm sorry you feel that way.
Also the 'afterlife' is not the subject here.

LOL! Fine. You are free to take literally those portions of the Bible that conform to your worldview - just as I am free to interpret the Bible according to the mental faculties God bestowed upon me.

 

[musicman]

Originally posted by SinisterMotives
"They" haven't called it that in years. The correct term is "sexual orientation."

Whether you know it or not, you said a mouthful- particularly with the adjective, "correct." The mangling and correctifying of our language is but one manifestation of a cultural elite minority ramming it's agenda down America's throat.

In George Orwell's "1984", Ingsoc busied itself rewriting the English language, condensing it into "Newspeak." The idea was to shrink the range of human thought, and thus make the populace more manageable. Sound familiar?

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by musicman
Whether you know it or not, you said a mouthful- particularly with the adjective, "correct." The mangling and correctifying of our language is but one manifestation of a cultural elite minority ramming it's agenda down America's throat.

In George Orwell's "1984", Ingsoc busied itself rewriting the English language, condensing it into "Newspeak." The idea was to shrink the range of human thought, and thus make the populace more manageable. Sound familiar?

Yes, I read it years ago.

 

[Joz]

Originally posted by wonderwench
LOL! Fine. You are free to take literally those portions of the Bible that conform to your worldview - just as I am free to interpret the Bible according to the mental faculties God bestowed upon me.

I'm glad I gave you a chuckle. PLEASE explain to me what you got out of this chapter.

 

[wonderwench]

Timothy 2 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

I think I misspoke that it was in Second Timothy. It is actually in Timothy.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by SinisterMotives
My statement was based on something someone said earlier. I have no reason to believe he lied about the study or its results. If you'll be patient, he will probably post it and we'll all see what it says. If it turns out that he or I was wrong, I'll gladly eat crow. However, I don't think he would grossly misinterpret what he read nor deliberately misinform me about it.

Thanks for the faith, bro. I feel special.


http://gendertree.com/When Does It Happen.htm

"For instance, when female rats are administered male hormones prenatally, they exhibit male sexual behavior during adulthood. Similarly, when male rats are prenatally administered a steroid drug to counteract the self-produced male hormone, the animals exhibit female sexual behavior.

In a second study rat mothers placed in stress during the equivalent of the first trimester, ended up with ratty sons with female (Lordic) behavior. in my case Mom was a nurse and dad was an intern, and they played doctor once too often, can you imagine the stress from that? I am adopted by the way. "

 

[SinisterMotives]

Thanks for the link, bro.

The jist of the article seems to be that sexuality is not just related to genital organs but it also based on brain structure and is affected by both hormones that occur naturally in the fetus and/or mother, and hormones from the external environment to which the fetus is exposed.

Well, I wouldn't call it conclusive, but I would call it a reason to believe sexual orientation is biological.

 

[smellthecoffee]

if god hates homosexuals so much then how come it didn't even make the top ten? maybe people so eager to stifle the gay challenge for marriage with a bible, should start with adultery! at least THAT makes the top ten. people are so quick to judge. Seems to me that an all knowing all seeing god isn't gonna get hoodwinked by Catholics sinning all week and then repenting on a sunday. How does god feel about someone born into a circumstance where he is imbued with the religion chosen by his family and never making any personal choice? Is he damned if the choice was wrong? Is he saved if a choice he never made was right?

 

[Bern80]

Originally posted by SinisterMotives
I think a few people are working under that assumption, as well as the assumption that God condemns homosexual behavior. We're also waiting on documentation that shows sexual orientation is determined before birth.

very well, as an ignostic (someone who who basically hasn't decided if he believes in the existence of a higher power) the bible's condemnation of homosexuals is probably something that one should not put a lot of stock in or even consider as plausible.

The Bible was not written by a god. It was written by fallable humands a few centuries after Jesus' existence. I believe it was written in by the people w/ power who simply didn't understand it.

 

[Avatar4321]

"if god hates homosexuals so much then how come it didn't even make the top ten? maybe people so eager to stifle the gay challenge for marriage with a bible, should start with adultery!"

um probably because adultery, IE sex outside marriage, covers all sex outside marriage including homosexual sex. Hence its kind of clear.