Who was the worst traitor in U.S. history?

[Thunderbird]

Many possibilities: Aldrich Ames, the Rosenbergs, or Benedict Arnold himself. My nominee is Harry Dexter White.

quote: 1. White was the real author of the Morgenthau plan to "turn Germany into a potato field," which when leaked, united non-Nazis with Nazis, stiffened resistance, and prolonged the war.
2. White used his position in the Treasury Department to develop a hostile U.S. policy toward Japan. The reason was to distract Japan from their plans to attack the Soviet Union and draw the U.S. into the war as an ally with the Soviet Union.
3. White was the author of an extreme ultimatum that Japan could not comply with in the days just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
4. White delayed financial support mandated by law to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Chinese government causing the triumph of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese government.
5. White was instrumental in handing over the Allied Military mark printing plates to the Soviets. This caused a $250,000,000 deficit in the occupational government budget paid out by the U.S. Treasury. This in effect amounted to the US taxpayer paying the salaries of Soviet occupation troops at a time when US/Soviet relations were deteriorating precisely because of the presence and behavior of Soviet occupation forces in Eastern Europe.

LINK

 

[Thunderbird]

Harry Dexter White was part of the Silvermaster spy ring.

 

[martybegan]

Jefferson Davis.

 

[Swagger]

The clowns who drafted and enacted the Immigration Act of 1965?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Jefferson Davis.

Even assuming that Davis was a traitor, how is the worst traitor in U.S. history a person that argued against secession while he was a U.S. Senator, and merely went along with his state?

 

[martybegan]

Jefferson Davis.

Even assuming that Davis was a traitor, how is the worst traitor in U.S. history a person that argued against secession while he was a U.S. Senator, and merely went along with his state?

He became president of the resulting organization of states that were in rebellion and seeked replace the existing federal compact. That to me is pretty much as treasonous as you can get, against the federal government at least.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Jefferson Davis.

Even assuming that Davis was a traitor, how is the worst traitor in U.S. history a person that argued against secession while he was a U.S. Senator, and merely went along with his state?

He became president of the resulting organization of states that were in rebellion and seeked replace the existing federal compact. That to me is pretty much as treasonous as you can get, against the federal government at least.

He didn't seek to replace the existing federal compact, he, against his own instincts, merely wanted to opt out of it.

 

[martybegan]

Even assuming that Davis was a traitor, how is the worst traitor in U.S. history a person that argued against secession while he was a U.S. Senator, and merely went along with his state?

He became president of the resulting organization of states that were in rebellion and seeked replace the existing federal compact. That to me is pretty much as treasonous as you can get, against the federal government at least.

He didn't seek to replace the existing federal compact, he, against his own instincts, merely wanted to opt out of it.

What do you call the confederate constitution? He was still the president of said insurrection, which was put down. No matter what other traitors have done, he's the only one who was presdient of a competing federal style government that occupied the same areas the existing federal level government claimed as thier own.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The clowns who drafted and enacted the Immigration Act of 1965?

Not a bad answer.

It was Ted the fucktard Kennedy; who made third-world peasants the only ones able to immigrate to the USA.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

He became president of the resulting organization of states that were in rebellion and seeked replace the existing federal compact. That to me is pretty much as treasonous as you can get, against the federal government at least.

He didn't seek to replace the existing federal compact, he, against his own instincts, merely wanted to opt out of it.

What do you call the confederate constitution? He was still the president of said insurrection, which was put down. No matter what other traitors have done, he's the only one who was presdient of a competing federal style government that occupied the same areas the existing federal level government claimed as thier own.

The Confederate Constitution didn't replace the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution still existed. Opting out is not the same as replacing.

 

[martybegan]

He didn't seek to replace the existing federal compact, he, against his own instincts, merely wanted to opt out of it.

What do you call the confederate constitution? He was still the president of said insurrection, which was put down. No matter what other traitors have done, he's the only one who was presdient of a competing federal style government that occupied the same areas the existing federal level government claimed as thier own.

The Confederate Constitution didn't replace the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution still existed. Opting out is not the same as replacing.

Semantics. They tried to replace the consitution in thier own states, when the US consitution was still in effect. Like any contract getting out of the contract required the consent of all parties that entered into it. The North didnt want to end it, the south did, and Civil War ensued. The confederates were your "enemies, domestic."

Jefferson Davis was a traitor to the US consitution, and to me the greatest of all becasue he tried led the soveriegn nation that tried to replace it in an area it claimed as its own.

 

[Sallow]

Jefferson Davis.

Or Robert E Lee

 

[martybegan]

Jefferson Davis.

Or Robert E Lee

He would be #2. I put the president of a rebellion over the army field commander.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What do you call the confederate constitution? He was still the president of said insurrection, which was put down. No matter what other traitors have done, he's the only one who was presdient of a competing federal style government that occupied the same areas the existing federal level government claimed as thier own.

The Confederate Constitution didn't replace the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution still existed. Opting out is not the same as replacing.

Semantics. They tried to replace the consitution in thier own states, when the US consitution was still in effect. Like any contract getting out of the contract required the consent of all parties that entered into it. The North didnt want to end it, the south did, and Civil War ensued. The confederates were your "enemies, domestic."

Jefferson Davis was a traitor to the US consitution, and to me the greatest of all becasue he tried led the soveriegn nation that tried to replace it in an area it claimed as its own.

Do you need your employer's permission to quit your job? If you join some group do you need the permission of the rest of the group to leave? Perhaps a more applicable question, would the United Kingdom need the permission of the rest of the European Union to leave the EU? Even better yet, did the colonies need the permission of King George to secede from Great Britain?

Maybe the worst traitor in U.S. history is George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

 

[martybegan]

The Confederate Constitution didn't replace the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution still existed. Opting out is not the same as replacing.

Semantics. They tried to replace the consitution in thier own states, when the US consitution was still in effect. Like any contract getting out of the contract required the consent of all parties that entered into it. The North didnt want to end it, the south did, and Civil War ensued. The confederates were your "enemies, domestic."

Jefferson Davis was a traitor to the US consitution, and to me the greatest of all becasue he tried led the soveriegn nation that tried to replace it in an area it claimed as its own.

Do you need your employer's permission to quit your job? If you join some group do you need the permission of the rest of the group to leave? Perhaps a more applicable question, would the United Kingdom need the permission of the rest of the European Union to leave the EU? Even better yet, did the colonies need the permission of King George to secede from Great Britain?

Maybe the worst traitor in U.S. history is George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

George Washington was a traitor to the British Crown, however our side won, so the point became moot. He was still a British traitor, which made him an american patriot.

Also employer/employee contracts are different, as employment is "At will" in most cases both sides can end the employment as they see fit. This is not the case in contracts such as high end sports contracts, where both parties would have to agree to terminate the contract, unless a clause is broken.

The idea that a losing side in a democratic vote is able to leave a set union just because they lost negates any concept of representative majority rule government. Of course they can leave if they want to fight for it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Semantics. They tried to replace the consitution in thier own states, when the US consitution was still in effect. Like any contract getting out of the contract required the consent of all parties that entered into it. The North didnt want to end it, the south did, and Civil War ensued. The confederates were your "enemies, domestic."

Jefferson Davis was a traitor to the US consitution, and to me the greatest of all becasue he tried led the soveriegn nation that tried to replace it in an area it claimed as its own.

Do you need your employer's permission to quit your job? If you join some group do you need the permission of the rest of the group to leave? Perhaps a more applicable question, would the United Kingdom need the permission of the rest of the European Union to leave the EU? Even better yet, did the colonies need the permission of King George to secede from Great Britain?

Maybe the worst traitor in U.S. history is George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

George Washington was a traitor to the British Crown, however our side won, so the point became moot. He was still a British traitor, which made him an american patriot.

Also employer/employee contracts are different, as employment is "At will" in most cases both sides can end the employment as they see fit. This is not the case in contracts such as high end sports contracts, where both parties would have to agree to terminate the contract, unless a clause is broken.

The idea that a losing side in a democratic vote is able to leave a set union just because they lost negates any concept of representative majority rule government. Of course they can leave if they want to fight for it.

I would argue that this would be the point. The founders, and this is actually an issue they were almost unanimous on at the time, did not believe in majority rule.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Jefferson Davis.

Or Robert E Lee

You and marty are poster children for the utter failure of the American educational system.

 

[martybegan]

Do you need your employer's permission to quit your job? If you join some group do you need the permission of the rest of the group to leave? Perhaps a more applicable question, would the United Kingdom need the permission of the rest of the European Union to leave the EU? Even better yet, did the colonies need the permission of King George to secede from Great Britain?

Maybe the worst traitor in U.S. history is George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

George Washington was a traitor to the British Crown, however our side won, so the point became moot. He was still a British traitor, which made him an american patriot.

Also employer/employee contracts are different, as employment is "At will" in most cases both sides can end the employment as they see fit. This is not the case in contracts such as high end sports contracts, where both parties would have to agree to terminate the contract, unless a clause is broken.

The idea that a losing side in a democratic vote is able to leave a set union just because they lost negates any concept of representative majority rule government. Of course they can leave if they want to fight for it.

I would argue that this would be the point. The founders, and this is actually an issue they were almost unanimous on at the time, did not believe in majority rule.

They did believe in limited franchise, but within that franchise the state legislatures went with majority rule, as did the house of representatives they set up.

The electoral college votes by majority rule, as does the supreme court, and the sentate (in most cases).

The overall mechanics of a republic is rule by a majority, tempered by a consitution which guarantees certain limits on the pure majorites ability for action.

 

[martybegan]

Jefferson Davis.

Or Robert E Lee

You and marty are poster children for the utter failure of the American educational system.

Can you elaborate please, or is your response based on the self important view that "I disagree with this person, therefore they MUST be stupid?"

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

George Washington was a traitor to the British Crown, however our side won, so the point became moot. He was still a British traitor, which made him an american patriot.

Also employer/employee contracts are different, as employment is "At will" in most cases both sides can end the employment as they see fit. This is not the case in contracts such as high end sports contracts, where both parties would have to agree to terminate the contract, unless a clause is broken.

The idea that a losing side in a democratic vote is able to leave a set union just because they lost negates any concept of representative majority rule government. Of course they can leave if they want to fight for it.

I would argue that this would be the point. The founders, and this is actually an issue they were almost unanimous on at the time, did not believe in majority rule.

They did believe in limited franchise, but within that franchise the state legislatures went with majority rule, as did the house of representatives they set up.

The electoral college votes by majority rule, as does the supreme court, and the sentate (in most cases).

The overall mechanics of a republic is rule by a majority, tempered by a consitution which guarantees certain limits on the pure majorites ability for action.

Well let's go back to the colonies and the King, you said they won the war so the point is moot. But it's not. Either they had the right to secede, or they didn't. Whether the war was won or lost is irrelevant. So did they have the right or didn't they? I mean, Britain was just going by majority rule, right? Why shouldn't the colonies have had to pay for the war that was fought essentially on their behalf?