Who Should Bernie Backers Support?

[georgephillip]

Robert Reich and Chris Hedges have often agreed on progressive values, but they are divided over whether Hillary qualifies as "progressive."

Reich worked hard for Bernie in spire of knowing Hillary for fifty years; he's endorsing Clinton:

"And right now, at this particular point in time, I just don’t see any alternative but to support Hillary. I know Hillary, I know her faults, I know her strengths. I think she will make a great president. I supported Bernie Sanders because I thought he would make a better president for the system we need. But nonetheless, Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee. I support her. And I support her not only because she will be a good president, if not a great president, but also, frankly, because I am tremendously worried about the alternative. And the alternative, really, as a practical matter, is somebody who is a megalomaniac and a bigot, somebody who will set back the progressive movement decades, if not more."

Chris Hedges has little use for either Democrat; he's voting for Jill Stein:

"Well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of infantile at this point.

"The fact is, we live in a system that Sheldon Wolin calls inverted totalitarianism.

"It’s a system where corporate power has seized all of the levers of control.

"There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs or ExxonMobil or Raytheon.

"We’ve lost our privacy..."

"We have bailed out the banks, pushed through programs of austerity.

"This has been a bipartisan effort, because they’ve both been captured by corporate power.

"We have undergone what John Ralston Saul correctly calls a corporate coup d’état in slow motion, and it’s over.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
"I just came back from Poland, which is a kind of case study of how neoliberal poison destroys a society and creates figures like Trump.

"Poland has gone, I think we can argue, into a neofascism.

"First, it dislocated the working class, deindustrialized the country.

"Then, in the name of austerity, it destroyed public institutions, education, public broadcasting.

"And then it poisoned the political system.

"And we are now watching, in Poland, them create a 30,000 to 40,000 armed militia. You know, they have an army.

"The Parliament, nothing works.

"And I think that this political system in the United States has seized up in exactly the same form."

 

[boedicca]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

 

[Tehon]

Robert Reich and Chris Hedges have often agreed on progressive values, but they are divided over whether Hillary qualifies as "progressive."

Reich worked hard for Bernie in spire of knowing Hillary for fifty years; he's endorsing Clinton:

"And right now, at this particular point in time, I just don’t see any alternative but to support Hillary. I know Hillary, I know her faults, I know her strengths. I think she will make a great president. I supported Bernie Sanders because I thought he would make a better president for the system we need. But nonetheless, Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee. I support her. And I support her not only because she will be a good president, if not a great president, but also, frankly, because I am tremendously worried about the alternative. And the alternative, really, as a practical matter, is somebody who is a megalomaniac and a bigot, somebody who will set back the progressive movement decades, if not more."

Chris Hedges has little use for either Democrat; he's voting for Jill Stein:

"Well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of infantile at this point.

"The fact is, we live in a system that Sheldon Wolin calls inverted totalitarianism.

"It’s a system where corporate power has seized all of the levers of control.

"There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs or ExxonMobil or Raytheon.

"We’ve lost our privacy..."

"We have bailed out the banks, pushed through programs of austerity.

"This has been a bipartisan effort, because they’ve both been captured by corporate power.

"We have undergone what John Ralston Saul correctly calls a corporate coup d’état in slow motion, and it’s over.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
"I just came back from Poland, which is a kind of case study of how neoliberal poison destroys a society and creates figures like Trump.

"Poland has gone, I think we can argue, into a neofascism.

"First, it dislocated the working class, deindustrialized the country.

"Then, in the name of austerity, it destroyed public institutions, education, public broadcasting.

"And then it poisoned the political system.

"And we are now watching, in Poland, them create a 30,000 to 40,000 armed militia. You know, they have an army.

"The Parliament, nothing works.

"And I think that this political system in the United States has seized up in exactly the same form."

I enjoyed the debate.

I'm with Hedges as my vote is going to Stein.

 

[Pogo]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

Haha. Well, that's the answer to who they should vote for that will serve your political message board points. And maybe I misread the question but I assumed it meant who should they vote for that will serve the country.

And that of course depends on whether one lives in a locked state or not. They are after all the only voters who get a say in the matter.

"Orange Woodrow Wilson" is I'm afraid, not an option.

 

[georgephillip]

Chris Hedges:
"So, is Trump a repugnant personality?

"Yes.

"Although I would argue that in terms of megalomania and narcissism, Hillary Clinton is not far behind.

"But the point is, we’ve got to break away from—which is exactly the narrative they want us to focus on.

"We’ve got to break away from political personalities and understand and examine and critique the structures of power.

"And, in fact, the Democratic Party, especially beginning under Bill Clinton, has carried water for corporate entities as assiduously as the Republican Party.

"This is something that Ralph Nader understood long before the rest of us, and stepped out very courageously in 2000."
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!

 

[mamooth]

Being Sanders enthusiastically endorsed Clinton, so any Sanders supporter should obviously support Clinton. It would be insane to say you trusted Bernie on everything, but that you don't trust Bernie about Clinton. Clinton and Sanders hold almost identical positions on everything. Clinton is the most liberal candidate the Democrats have ever run.

Now, if your state isn't close, go ahead and cast that protest vote. It's not hurting anyone.

If your state is close, you have an ethical duty to humanity to keep Trump out of office, and that means voting for Clinton. You don't have to like it, just do it.

 

[Pogo]

Chris Hedges:
"So, is Trump a repugnant personality?

"Yes.

"Although I would argue that in terms of megalomania and narcissism, Hillary Clinton is not far behind.

"But the point is, we’ve got to break away from—which is exactly the narrative they want us to focus on.

"We’ve got to break away from political personalities and understand and examine and critique the structures of power.

"And, in fact, the Democratic Party, especially beginning under Bill Clinton, has carried water for corporate entities as assiduously as the Republican Party.

"This is something that Ralph Nader understood long before the rest of us, and stepped out very courageously in 2000."
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!

Yeah I voted for Nader in 2000.
But I had the luxury, as I was living in Louisiana.

 

[boedicca]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

Haha. Well, that's the answer to who they should vote for that will serve your political message board points. And maybe I misread the question but I assumed it meant who should they vote for that will serve the country.

And that of course depends on whether one lives in a locked state or not. They are after all the only voters who get a say in the matter.

"Orange Woodrow Wilson" is I'm afraid, not an option.

And you think Orange Pantsuit hiLIARy?

She'll destroy the last vestiges of the rule of law that we currently have in place...and will be the object of blackmail by enemies around the world.

 

[Pogo]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

Haha. Well, that's the answer to who they should vote for that will serve your political message board points. And maybe I misread the question but I assumed it meant who should they vote for that will serve the country.

And that of course depends on whether one lives in a locked state or not. They are after all the only voters who get a say in the matter.

"Orange Woodrow Wilson" is I'm afraid, not an option.

And you think Orange Pantsuit hiLIARy?

She'll destroy the last vestiges of the rule of law that we currently have in place...and will be the object of blackmail by enemies around the world.

Speculation though that is, what you posted above guarantees Orange Woodrow Wilson.
But that's OK because you get fodder for future message board posts, right?

Since the point here seems elusive, allow me to paraphrase a Philadelphia writer who was called to task for endorsing mayor Wilson Goode --

"Wilson Goode is terrible. He's a disaster. He's so bad, only Frank Rizzo could make you vote for him".

Now substitute "Hillary" and "Donald Rump" respectively. Batfink's your uncle.

 

[georgephillip]

Robert Reich and Chris Hedges have often agreed on progressive values, but they are divided over whether Hillary qualifies as "progressive."

Reich worked hard for Bernie in spire of knowing Hillary for fifty years; he's endorsing Clinton:

"And right now, at this particular point in time, I just don’t see any alternative but to support Hillary. I know Hillary, I know her faults, I know her strengths. I think she will make a great president. I supported Bernie Sanders because I thought he would make a better president for the system we need. But nonetheless, Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee. I support her. And I support her not only because she will be a good president, if not a great president, but also, frankly, because I am tremendously worried about the alternative. And the alternative, really, as a practical matter, is somebody who is a megalomaniac and a bigot, somebody who will set back the progressive movement decades, if not more."

Chris Hedges has little use for either Democrat; he's voting for Jill Stein:

"Well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of infantile at this point.

"The fact is, we live in a system that Sheldon Wolin calls inverted totalitarianism.

"It’s a system where corporate power has seized all of the levers of control.

"There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs or ExxonMobil or Raytheon.

"We’ve lost our privacy..."

"We have bailed out the banks, pushed through programs of austerity.

"This has been a bipartisan effort, because they’ve both been captured by corporate power.

"We have undergone what John Ralston Saul correctly calls a corporate coup d’état in slow motion, and it’s over.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
"I just came back from Poland, which is a kind of case study of how neoliberal poison destroys a society and creates figures like Trump.

"Poland has gone, I think we can argue, into a neofascism.

"First, it dislocated the working class, deindustrialized the country.

"Then, in the name of austerity, it destroyed public institutions, education, public broadcasting.

"And then it poisoned the political system.

"And we are now watching, in Poland, them create a 30,000 to 40,000 armed militia. You know, they have an army.

"The Parliament, nothing works.

"And I think that this political system in the United States has seized up in exactly the same form."

I enjoyed the debate.

I'm with Hedges as my vote is going to Stein.

Mine too.
Hedges has seen authoritarian personalities take over governments in some of the war zones he covered over the last four decades. I think he sees connections many progressives don't.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
Chris Hedges:
"And this is, of course, why I support Dr. Stein and the Green Party. We have to remember that 10 years ago, Syriza, which controls the Greek government, was polling at exactly the same spot that the Green Party is polling now—about 4 percent. We’ve got to break out of this idea that we can create systematic change within a particular election cycle.

"We’ve got to be willing to step out into the political wilderness, perhaps, for a decade. But on the issues of climate change, on the issue of the destruction of civil liberties, including our right to privacy—and I speak as a former investigative journalist, which doesn’t exist anymore because of wholesale government surveillance—we have no ability, except for hackers."

 

[Arianrhod]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

Poor you!

Sanders supporters who respect Sanders and know his history understand and respect his decision. Those who believe this is a junior-high popularity contest will be confused.

According to Pew Research, the former outnumber the latter.

Your hopes to the contrary.

 

[Tehon]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

Haha. Well, that's the answer to who they should vote for that will serve your political message board points. And maybe I misread the question but I assumed it meant who should they vote for that will serve the country.

And that of course depends on whether one lives in a locked state or not. They are after all the only voters who get a say in the matter.

"Orange Woodrow Wilson" is I'm afraid, not an option.

And you think Orange Pantsuit hiLIARy?

She'll destroy the last vestiges of the rule of law that we currently have in place...and will be the object of blackmail by enemies around the world.

Speculation though that is, what you posted above guarantees Orange Woodrow Wilson.
But that's OK because you get fodder for future message board posts, right?

Since the point here seems elusive, allow me to paraphrase a Philadelphia writer who was called to task for endorsing mayor Wilson Goode --

"Wilson Goode is terrible. He's a disaster. He's so bad, only Frank Rizzo could make you vote for him".

Now substitute "Hillary" and "Donald Rump" respectively. Batfink's your uncle.

Woodrow Wilson is dead.
No one cares.
Get over it.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

They should vote for Jill Stein, as she's the best option to carry their beliefs. If we're talking about who would serve the country best(And we're likely not, given they were going to vote for Bernie), then... I'd say Trump or Johnson, one would have to be the lesser of the evils.

 

[Tehon]

Robert Reich and Chris Hedges have often agreed on progressive values, but they are divided over whether Hillary qualifies as "progressive."

Reich worked hard for Bernie in spire of knowing Hillary for fifty years; he's endorsing Clinton:

"And right now, at this particular point in time, I just don’t see any alternative but to support Hillary. I know Hillary, I know her faults, I know her strengths. I think she will make a great president. I supported Bernie Sanders because I thought he would make a better president for the system we need. But nonetheless, Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee. I support her. And I support her not only because she will be a good president, if not a great president, but also, frankly, because I am tremendously worried about the alternative. And the alternative, really, as a practical matter, is somebody who is a megalomaniac and a bigot, somebody who will set back the progressive movement decades, if not more."

Chris Hedges has little use for either Democrat; he's voting for Jill Stein:

"Well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of infantile at this point.

"The fact is, we live in a system that Sheldon Wolin calls inverted totalitarianism.

"It’s a system where corporate power has seized all of the levers of control.

"There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs or ExxonMobil or Raytheon.

"We’ve lost our privacy..."

"We have bailed out the banks, pushed through programs of austerity.

"This has been a bipartisan effort, because they’ve both been captured by corporate power.

"We have undergone what John Ralston Saul correctly calls a corporate coup d’état in slow motion, and it’s over.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
"I just came back from Poland, which is a kind of case study of how neoliberal poison destroys a society and creates figures like Trump.

"Poland has gone, I think we can argue, into a neofascism.

"First, it dislocated the working class, deindustrialized the country.

"Then, in the name of austerity, it destroyed public institutions, education, public broadcasting.

"And then it poisoned the political system.

"And we are now watching, in Poland, them create a 30,000 to 40,000 armed militia. You know, they have an army.

"The Parliament, nothing works.

"And I think that this political system in the United States has seized up in exactly the same form."

I enjoyed the debate.

I'm with Hedges as my vote is going to Stein.

Mine too.
Hedges has seen authoritarian personalities take over governments in some of the war zones he covered over the last four decades. I think he sees connections many progressives don't.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
Chris Hedges:
"And this is, of course, why I support Dr. Stein and the Green Party. We have to remember that 10 years ago, Syriza, which controls the Greek government, was polling at exactly the same spot that the Green Party is polling now—about 4 percent. We’ve got to break out of this idea that we can create systematic change within a particular election cycle.

"We’ve got to be willing to step out into the political wilderness, perhaps, for a decade. But on the issues of climate change, on the issue of the destruction of civil liberties, including our right to privacy—and I speak as a former investigative journalist, which doesn’t exist anymore because of wholesale government surveillance—we have no ability, except for hackers."

Hedges has seen authoritarian personalities take over governments in some of the war zones he covered over the last four decades. I think he sees connections many progressives don't.

I think what is more important and Hedges points it out, is that voters should avoid focusing on the personalities and start focusing on the power structures behind the personalities. And in this regard it isn't as clear cut a case that Clinton is the lesser of two evils.

 

[boedicca]

BERNOUTS should vote for Jill Stein and engage in raging demonstrations against hiLIARy and her Rigged-FixIsIn nomination.

Poor you!

Sanders supporters who respect Sanders and know his history understand and respect his decision. Those who believe this is a junior-high popularity contest will be confused.

According to Pew Research, the former outnumber the latter.

Your hopes to the contrary.

It's not my hope, it's what is proper for them to do if they actually believe what they claim to believe.

hiLIARy is a Corrupt Corporatist Crony. She stands for most of what they are against. If they vote for her anyway, they are just the a bunch of same old same old , pragmatic,value-free tools of The Party.

 

[georgephillip]

Robert Reich and Chris Hedges have often agreed on progressive values, but they are divided over whether Hillary qualifies as "progressive."

Reich worked hard for Bernie in spire of knowing Hillary for fifty years; he's endorsing Clinton:

"And right now, at this particular point in time, I just don’t see any alternative but to support Hillary. I know Hillary, I know her faults, I know her strengths. I think she will make a great president. I supported Bernie Sanders because I thought he would make a better president for the system we need. But nonetheless, Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee. I support her. And I support her not only because she will be a good president, if not a great president, but also, frankly, because I am tremendously worried about the alternative. And the alternative, really, as a practical matter, is somebody who is a megalomaniac and a bigot, somebody who will set back the progressive movement decades, if not more."

Chris Hedges has little use for either Democrat; he's voting for Jill Stein:

"Well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of infantile at this point.

"The fact is, we live in a system that Sheldon Wolin calls inverted totalitarianism.

"It’s a system where corporate power has seized all of the levers of control.

"There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs or ExxonMobil or Raytheon.

"We’ve lost our privacy..."

"We have bailed out the banks, pushed through programs of austerity.

"This has been a bipartisan effort, because they’ve both been captured by corporate power.

"We have undergone what John Ralston Saul correctly calls a corporate coup d’état in slow motion, and it’s over.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
"I just came back from Poland, which is a kind of case study of how neoliberal poison destroys a society and creates figures like Trump.

"Poland has gone, I think we can argue, into a neofascism.

"First, it dislocated the working class, deindustrialized the country.

"Then, in the name of austerity, it destroyed public institutions, education, public broadcasting.

"And then it poisoned the political system.

"And we are now watching, in Poland, them create a 30,000 to 40,000 armed militia. You know, they have an army.

"The Parliament, nothing works.

"And I think that this political system in the United States has seized up in exactly the same form."

I enjoyed the debate.

I'm with Hedges as my vote is going to Stein.

Mine too.
Hedges has seen authoritarian personalities take over governments in some of the war zones he covered over the last four decades. I think he sees connections many progressives don't.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order | Democracy Now!
Chris Hedges:
"And this is, of course, why I support Dr. Stein and the Green Party. We have to remember that 10 years ago, Syriza, which controls the Greek government, was polling at exactly the same spot that the Green Party is polling now—about 4 percent. We’ve got to break out of this idea that we can create systematic change within a particular election cycle.

"We’ve got to be willing to step out into the political wilderness, perhaps, for a decade. But on the issues of climate change, on the issue of the destruction of civil liberties, including our right to privacy—and I speak as a former investigative journalist, which doesn’t exist anymore because of wholesale government surveillance—we have no ability, except for hackers."

Hedges has seen authoritarian personalities take over governments in some of the war zones he covered over the last four decades. I think he sees connections many progressives don't.

I think what is more important and Hedges points it out, is that voters should avoid focusing on the personalities and start focusing on the power structures behind the personalities. And in this regard it isn't as clear cut a case that Clinton is the lesser of two evils.

It seems clear to me Clinton is the more efficient evil, based on her quarter-century commitment (investment?) to "public service." She is far more skillful at maintaining the illusion of democratic rule than the blowhard racist running against her, but they are both polling at 58% unfavorable with US voters. Hopefully, tens of millions of voters will opt Green or Libertarian next November?