Who incites more Palestinian hatred: Abbas or Netanyahu?

[Coyote]

Interesting opinion piece. Media often reports very unevenly on these issues placing much of the blame for hatred at the feet of the Palestinians with looking at the impact of Israel's own actions or what seems to be becoming more ingrained cultural views on each side due to the occupation.

Entire article: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.567602 - worth reading in entirety.

Their textbooks may sometimes preach hatred, but it is the humiliation of occupation that creates the most Palestinian rage against Israel.

Benjamin Netanyahu recently denounced “incitement” to hatred as one of the key obstacles to Israeli-Palestinian peace. “It all starts with education,” added Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon. They were talking about Palestinian incitement, of course. But it got me thinking.

In 2012, former Shin Bet head Yuval Diskin warned that, “Over the past 10-15 years Israel has become more and more racist. All of the studies point to this.”

Sadly, he’s correct. Last year, according to the respected Israeli Democracy Institute, 48 percent of Israeli Jews said living next to an Arab family would bother them. In addition, 43 percent want the government to encourage Arabs to leave Israel. A majority thinks important government decisions—not only on security, but even on economic and social issues—should require a Jewish majority. A Haaretz poll last August of Jewish Israeli 16 and 17 year olds found that 42 percent would object to having an Arab teacher.

What explains these hateful answers? Maybe it’s incitement?

A while back, I tried out the theory on an American Jewish hawk. I mentioned that there’s a public park in Hebron named for the notorious racist Meir Kahane, which includes the grave of Baruch Goldstein, who murdered 29 Palestinians in 1994. There’s a moshav, a postage stamp and various streets named for David Raziel, who masterminded a July 6, 1938 attack in which Irgun operatives placed bombs in Haifa’s Arab market, killing 23 people. Many Israeli students attend schools run by Shas, whose spiritual leader, the late Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, called Palestinians “snakes,” Arabs “evildoers,” Islam “ugly” and declared that “goyim are born only to serve us.” Many Israeli textbooks no longer show the Green Line.

When I presented this theory to my hawkish interlocutor, he looked at me like I was crazy. He didn’t deny the accuracy of my examples. He didn’t even deny that many Jewish Israelis dislike Palestinians and Arabs. But he explained, in the exasperated tone of one explaining something blindingly obvious, that this hostility stems not from postage stamps, textbooks or the statements of famous rabbis. It stems from the trauma of everyday life. Did I really not understand the second intifada’s impact on average Israelis: the horror of not knowing if the bus you step into will suddenly blow up; the anxiety of wondering if your kids will come home safe from the pizza parlor? Did I not realize that for the people of southern Israel, traumatized by rocket fire from Gaza, this suffering continues? Could I not see that if many Israelis, regrettably, harbor hostile feelings toward Palestinians, those feelings stem from the most powerful incubator of all: lived experience.

My hawkish acquaintance was right. Right about Israeli hatred and right about Palestinian hatred too.

... Netanyahu’s new focus on incitement largely misses the point. I’ve met many Palestinians who hate Israel. But I’ve never met one who attributes that hatred to street signs or textbooks. Instead, they talk about parents evicted from their homes, cousins jailed, lands taken, travel permits denied. One Palestinian friend, born inside the green line, told me about being unable to live with his West Bank-born wife inside Israel. Another told me that her husband, born near Bethlehem, has five brothers, all of whom have been shot by Israeli soldiers. I’ve lost count of the number of Palestinian, Arab and Muslim acquaintances who have recounted humiliating experiences at Ben Gurion Airport. In my experience, at least, Palestinians explain their anger toward Israelis in roughly the same way my hawkish acquaintance explained Jewish anger toward Palestinians: as the product of bitter, personal experience.

Benjamin Netanyahu can do something about that. Channel 10 recently reported that over the second half of last year, Israel increased its budget for the settlements tenfold. That means countless, fresh Palestinian stories of suffering and fury. When it comes to combatting the incitement that leads Palestinians to hate, Netanyahu need not wait for Abbas. He can start with himself.

 

[Indeependent]

Haaretz!

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Haaretz!

Haaretz is a leftist newspaper but they do raise some good points. I always try to look at things from the others' point of view.

 

[Sally]

Haaretz!

Haaretz is a leftist newspaper but they do raise some good points. I always try to look at things from the others' point of view.

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

 

[Lipush]

I will hardly take any opinion regarding Netanyahu from Haaretz seriously. sorry.

For the record. I cannot stand this guy, and didn't vote for him. But taking seriously an opinion regarding the prime minister form Haaretz is like telling Ma'an news agency to unbiastly write about Naftalie Bennett.



Oh, another thing, it's not a question about Netanyahu or Abbas. each year the conflict with the Palestinians get more violent. It's like this and was like it before Netanyahu or Olmert, and before Abbas. It's a matter of facts. And the fact is, that between Israelis and Palestinians there's a precipice that won't be closed anytime soon.

Leaders can manage. Nations? will take time.

 

[Lipush]

Haaretz!

Haaretz is a leftist newspaper but they do raise some good points. I always try to look at things from the others' point of view.

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Good point.

And in addition, Coyote and Sally, I just finished reading an article (too bad it was in Hebrew, I'd like it to be in English so I could post it here, I can bring the Hebrew link for you to translate) that spoke about social problems among Israeli social groups (human rights groups, and other social groups that are majority ruled by the leftist movement). Turns out, hardly surprising, that among those groups, who are calling for equal justice for Jews and Non-Jews in Israel, to fight the "discrimination" between Palestinians and Israelis, there is a huge and NOTICEABLE discrimination of women and minority groups INSIDE those organizations.

I find ironic, fuming, not to mention hypocritical, that a group which calls to respect Palestinian right doesn't give jobs to Palestinian women, simply for being women. Human rights groups and ditch Ethiopians, Russians people with disability, simply for being what they are.

And who fund and push those groups forward? The ones who later on calls to bring down the democratic leadership which was fairly voted by the masses?

For some reason, I find it wrong.

 

[Coyote]

Haaretz!

Haaretz is a leftist newspaper but they do raise some good points. I always try to look at things from the others' point of view.

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Sally, can you possibly concentrate on the topic at hand rather than frantically running around scrounging for what is happening elsewhere in the world? JUST once in a while?

Could make for a good discussion. Who cares what is happening elsewhere - this was posted in the IP forum because it's about the IP conflict.

 

[Coyote]

I will hardly take any opinion regarding Netanyahu from Haaretz seriously. sorry.

For the record. I cannot stand this guy, and didn't vote for him. But taking seriously an opinion regarding the prime minister form Haaretz is like telling Ma'an news agency to unbiastly write about Naftalie Bennett.



Oh, another thing, it's not a question about Netanyahu or Abbas. each year the conflict with the Palestinians get more violent. It's like this and was like it before Netanyahu or Olmert, and before Abbas. It's a matter of facts. And the fact is, that between Israelis and Palestinians there's a precipice that won't be closed anytime soon.

Leaders can manage. Nations? will take time.

I think it's less about Netanyahu (or Abbas) than it is about the overall view that the occupation has little to do with all this hate and violence.

The author drew a very interesting comparison between the two sides and the inability of one to recognize that the occupation itself is fueling a lot of violence. It's like there is a disconnect because it's easier to blame the hatred solely on the Palestinia internal affairs and never look further. I think it's interesting the conversations he has had on this with real people on both sides.

 

[Coyote]

Haaretz is a leftist newspaper but they do raise some good points. I always try to look at things from the others' point of view.

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Good point.

And in addition, Coyote and Sally, I just finished reading an article (too bad it was in Hebrew, I'd like it to be in English so I could post it here, I can bring the Hebrew link for you to translate) that spoke about social problems among Israeli social groups (human rights groups, and other social groups that are majority ruled by the leftist movement). Turns out, hardly surprising, that among those groups, who are calling for equal justice for Jews and Non-Jews in Israel, to fight the "discrimination" between Palestinians and Israelis, there is a huge and NOTICEABLE discrimination of women and minority groups INSIDE those organizations.

I find ironic, fuming, not to mention hypocritical, that a group which calls to respect Palestinian right doesn't give jobs to Palestinian women, simply for being women. Human rights groups and ditch Ethiopians, Russians people with disability, simply for being what they are.

And who fund and push those groups forward? The ones who later on calls to bring down the democratic leadership which was fairly voted by the masses?

For some reason, I find it wrong.

Can you find a translation and post it as a topic? Sounds interesting - but I don't know how good things like online translations work.

 

[Roudy]

I'm just wondering why Hamas was left out of this equation. Hamas are basically the terrorist Taliban who are in charge of Gaza. Hatred, violence, incitement, glorifying martyrdom and Jihad with the ultimate goal of killing of Jews and destroying the Jewish state, is their business.

So Netanyahu is definitely right.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Haaretz is a leftist newspaper but they do raise some good points. I always try to look at things from the others' point of view.

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Sally, can you possibly concentrate on the topic at hand rather than frantically running around scrounging for what is happening elsewhere in the world? JUST once in a while?

Could make for a good discussion. Who cares what is happening elsewhere - this was posted in the IP forum because it's about the IP conflict.

"Who cares what is happening elsewhere?" I guess you wrote that in the context of those issues having nothing to do with this post. In that way, you're right. But I hope the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is solved, so that the world CAN start caring about all the ignored persecuted people in different parts of the world.

 

[Sally]

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Sally, can you possibly concentrate on the topic at hand rather than frantically running around scrounging for what is happening elsewhere in the world? JUST once in a while?

Could make for a good discussion. Who cares what is happening elsewhere - this was posted in the IP forum because it's about the IP conflict.

"Who cares what is happening elsewhere?" I guess you wrote that in the context of those issues having nothing to do with this post. In that way, you're right. But I hope the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is solved, so that the world CAN start caring about all the ignored persecuted people in different parts of the world.

Strange, isn't it, how much time and effort is given to attempt to show a tiny little country in such a bad light when there is so much happening elsewhere that is truly horrendous. They remind me of clergy in the Muslim world getting up on step against Israel to incite their listeners. Anyhow, getting back to the thread title, no one is mentioning those horrible videos that the Palestinian children are shown on T.V. If this doesn't incite them to hate the Jews, I don't know what would. Civilized countries show Sesame Street and Barney, not teaching kids to become martyrs by killing the Jews.

 

[GHook93]

Your mother!

 

[Coyote]

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Sally, can you possibly concentrate on the topic at hand rather than frantically running around scrounging for what is happening elsewhere in the world? JUST once in a while?

Could make for a good discussion. Who cares what is happening elsewhere - this was posted in the IP forum because it's about the IP conflict.

"Who cares what is happening elsewhere?" I guess you wrote that in the context of those issues having nothing to do with this post. In that way, you're right. But I hope the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is solved, so that the world CAN start caring about all the ignored persecuted people in different parts of the world.

I think the world DOES care, but those who choose to post here - in IP and even ME, care primarily about that conflict. There is nothing wrong with that. For whatever reason, whether they are pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian, or somewhere in the middle - it's an issue they care about. That's their right, why demonize them for it?

Look at Sally. What does she/he care about? Only violence committed by Muslims. At least that is what one gets from his/her posts - is it true? I don't think so, we are all human beings here...I can't imagine any of us aren't affected when these things are brought down to us on a human level - where it is ordinary people just like us, Muslims, Jews, Christians and more being affected.

I thought the OP was a good one, because it brought all this hatred down to a human level - why? Why is it ongoing? Actions drive it, from both sides that lead to lack of trust, lack of security and safety and predictability. It's not just one side or the other, and who is worse depends on what particular situation is being discussed.

 

[Coyote]

I'm just wondering why Hamas was left out of this equation. Hamas are basically the terrorist Taliban who are in charge of Gaza. Hatred, violence, incitement, glorifying martyrdom and Jihad with the ultimate goal of killing of Jews and destroying the Jewish state, is their business.

So Netanyahu is definitely right.

If you read the entire article, the author brings that up - however, from his observations - that is far less of a factor driving hate than actions under the occupation.

He also points out, quite fairly I think - a disturbing level of hate and intolerance that is spreading among segments of Israel's Jewish population. He points out how the Palestinians are condemned for glorifying martyrdom and jihad, yet that is being done in Israel as well - but excused and justified.

 

[Coyote]

Sally, can you possibly concentrate on the topic at hand rather than frantically running around scrounging for what is happening elsewhere in the world? JUST once in a while?

Could make for a good discussion. Who cares what is happening elsewhere - this was posted in the IP forum because it's about the IP conflict.

"Who cares what is happening elsewhere?" I guess you wrote that in the context of those issues having nothing to do with this post. In that way, you're right. But I hope the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is solved, so that the world CAN start caring about all the ignored persecuted people in different parts of the world.

Strange, isn't it, how much time and effort is given to attempt to show a tiny little country in such a bad light when there is so much happening elsewhere that is truly horrendous. They remind me of clergy in the Muslim world getting up on step against Israel to incite their listeners. Anyhow, getting back to the thread title, no one is mentioning those horrible videos that the Palestinian children are shown on T.V. If this doesn't incite them to hate the Jews, I don't know what would. Civilized countries show Sesame Street and Barney, not teaching kids to become martyrs by killing the Jews.

Actually, if you go to the link to read the entire article, it was mentioned albeit in a general way - what the author put forth however, was that (though he rightfully condemned things like their media and textbooks) it was not the primary cause of the hatred and anger, according to the average Palestinians he talked to.

 

[Sally]

"Who cares what is happening elsewhere?" I guess you wrote that in the context of those issues having nothing to do with this post. In that way, you're right. But I hope the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is solved, so that the world CAN start caring about all the ignored persecuted people in different parts of the world.

Strange, isn't it, how much time and effort is given to attempt to show a tiny little country in such a bad light when there is so much happening elsewhere that is truly horrendous. They remind me of clergy in the Muslim world getting up on step against Israel to incite their listeners. Anyhow, getting back to the thread title, no one is mentioning those horrible videos that the Palestinian children are shown on T.V. If this doesn't incite them to hate the Jews, I don't know what would. Civilized countries show Sesame Street and Barney, not teaching kids to become martyrs by killing the Jews.

Actually, if you go to the link to read the entire article, it was mentioned albeit in a general way - what the author put forth however, was that (though he rightfully condemned things like their media and textbooks) it was not the primary cause of the hatred and anger, according to the average Palestinians he talked to.

Let's face it, Coyote, a lot of this hatred is incited against the Jews and Israel by the clergy, even in cxountries where there are no Jews living there. The bottom line is, regardless if it is the Pawlestinians or any other group of Arabs and Muslims, they do not want to see the Jews governing one tiny piece of land in the Middle East. Perhaps you can tell us why there was no hatred and anger against Jordan and Egypt when these countries were administering the area. I don't think the "Palestinians" were clamoring for a state then.

 

[Lipush]

What you say is true. However, it seems that all around the world the Muslims are having a fit about the Palestinians because it involves the Jews, but yet they care nothing about what Muslims are doing to non Muslims (especally when it comes to murdering them en masse) and even to other Muslims, nor do they care that China occupies Tibet or that Turkey occupies a part of Cyprus.

Good point.

And in addition, Coyote and Sally, I just finished reading an article (too bad it was in Hebrew, I'd like it to be in English so I could post it here, I can bring the Hebrew link for you to translate) that spoke about social problems among Israeli social groups (human rights groups, and other social groups that are majority ruled by the leftist movement). Turns out, hardly surprising, that among those groups, who are calling for equal justice for Jews and Non-Jews in Israel, to fight the "discrimination" between Palestinians and Israelis, there is a huge and NOTICEABLE discrimination of women and minority groups INSIDE those organizations.

I find ironic, fuming, not to mention hypocritical, that a group which calls to respect Palestinian right doesn't give jobs to Palestinian women, simply for being women. Human rights groups and ditch Ethiopians, Russians people with disability, simply for being what they are.

And who fund and push those groups forward? The ones who later on calls to bring down the democratic leadership which was fairly voted by the masses?

For some reason, I find it wrong.

Can you find a translation and post it as a topic? Sounds interesting - but I don't know how good things like online translations work.

Uhhh, I'm not sureeee.....

Here's the original link in hebrew,

ynet מוסר כפול: עוזרים לפלסטי×*ים ומפלים ×*שים - כלכלה

try this translation=

www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4474679,00.html - Translator

 

[Roudy]

I'm just wondering why Hamas was left out of this equation. Hamas are basically the terrorist Taliban who are in charge of Gaza. Hatred, violence, incitement, glorifying martyrdom and Jihad with the ultimate goal of killing of Jews and destroying the Jewish state, is their business.

So Netanyahu is definitely right.

If you read the entire article, the author brings that up - however, from his observations - that is far less of a factor driving hate than actions under the occupation.

He also points out, quite fairly I think - a disturbing level of hate and intolerance that is spreading among segments of Israel's Jewish population. He points out how the Palestinians are condemned for glorifying martyrdom and jihad, yet that is being done in Israel as well - but excused and justified.

Hamas' unadulterated Jew hate and Nazi propaganda against Jews is less a factor than the "occupation" which DOES NOT EXIST IN GAZA?

Nah.

 

[docmauser1]

Interesting opinion piece.

Not really - same daily humiliation of dealing with dictionary definitions, different author, of course.