Who does Cindy Sheehan really hate?

[Gunny]

Cindy Sheehan's basic question is why is her sons' dying classifiesd as a heroic death? What did he die for? A lot of people just assume that the soldiers in Iraq are heroes because they fought to protect the American people, but knowing now that there were no weapons of mass destruction is this still true? Who did they protect and from what? This question deserves to be thought about.

Cindy Sheehan's basic question is nothing but leftist rabble-rousing. She dishonors his name and his service by using it as a political tool.

And I'll tell you the same thing I tell every lib that thinks because no one's turned up a mega-complex of ready-to-use MWDs ..... the Iraqi soldiers I saw had plenty of up-to-date NBC defensive gear. Wonder what THAT was for? They were afraid of acid rain?

Proven fact: Saddam possessed WMDs and USED them on more than one occasion, and Saddam pursued upgrading his WMDs at every opportunity.

 

[manu1959]

Cindy Sheehan's basic question is why is her sons' dying classifiesd as a heroic death? What did he die for? A lot of people just assume that the soldiers in Iraq are heroes because they fought to protect the American people, but knowing now that there were no weapons of mass destruction is this still true? Who did they protect and from what? This question deserves to be thought about.

he died for what he belived in......he chose to be a soldier

it is the left's rehtoric that they fight for wmd's that do not exist.....they fight to remove iraq from the rule of a dictator that killed and tortured his own people and violated the terms of the cease fire from the kuwait invasion....they continue to fight to prevent the rule of a similar man taking control of the country....

you are welcome to spin this however you like and change the subject but those are the facts

 

[Abbey Normal]

Even if we found massive stockpiles of WMD's of the most heinous kind, Cindy Sheehan would still be protesting. From all that I've read about Ms. Sheehan, she is not anti-war because we found no WMD's. She is anti-war, anti-Republican, and anti-Bush, period.

 

[Nuc]

he died for what he belived in......he chose to be a soldier

That's the bottom line. We all chose our destiny, whether it is dangerous or not is our decision.

 

[manu1959]

That's the bottom line. We all chose our destiny, whether it is dangerous or not is our decision.

totaly agree.....every day we make choices and we get to live with the results...she is pissed that her son made a choice that put him in harms way...she could not prevent that coice and rather than blame her son....or herslef she needs to assign blame

surest way to avoid a shark attack....don't go in the water

 

[Nuc]

totaly agree.....every day we make choices and we get to live with the results...she is pissed that her son made a choice that put him in harms way...she could not prevent that coice and rather than blame her son....or herslef she needs to assign blame

surest way to avoid a shark attack....don't go in the water

Many people choose risky occupations, not just soldiers. Firefighters, policemen, race car drivers, football players, miners, prostitutes, musicians, the list goes on. Some choose for their ideals, some for a thrill, some because it's the only thing they are good at. If you logically analyze it, seldom does it make sense. She is trying to turn him into a little boy posthumously by implying he didn't know what he was doing. It's a mom who doesn't want her baby to grow up.

 

[manu1959]

Many people choose risky occupations, not just soldiers. Firefighters, policemen, race car drivers, football players, miners, prostitutes, musicians, the list goes on. Some choose for their ideals, some for a thrill, some because it's the only thing they are good at. If you logically analyze it, seldom does it make sense. She is trying to turn him into a little boy posthumously by implying he didn't know what he was doing. It's a mom who doesn't want her baby to grow up.

agree....however i belive it is a mom that can not blame her son for his own choice to join the military and refuses to accept the guilt she feels for not being able to prevent him and thus must blame someone else...something else ..... anything else....first step denial

The five stages of grief are:


1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", looking for the former spouse in familia places, or if it is death, setting the table for the person or acting as if they are still in living there. No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss.


2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.


3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.


4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.


5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that it takes two to make or break a marriage. Realization that the person is gone (in death) that it is not their fault, they didn't leave you on purpose. (even in cases of suicide, often the deceased person, was not in their right frame of mind) Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Our goals turn toward personal growth. Stay with fond memories of person.

 

[pegwinn]

Cindy Sheehan's basic question is why is her sons' dying classifiesd as a heroic death? What did he die for? A lot of people just assume that the soldiers in Iraq are heroes because they fought to protect the American people, but knowing now that there were no weapons of mass destruction is this still true? Who did they protect and from what? This question deserves to be thought about.

About duty. Legally speaking one has no obligation to "repay" the United States of America for providing the most forward thinking, freedom loving, tolerant, protected, and protective nation on earth. Heck you don't even have to be a citizen in order to garner all the advantages (and actually avoid a few of the disadvantages) this nation offers.

About those who died. I personally knew too many of them. Don't worry, they didn't know you, or die for you. You normally live your life in ignorance of what they do, where they go, or the hardships they endured whether in peace or war. Since neither group knows each other; What did they die for? The ideal. The ideal of a free nation where you can be a rugged individualist, an atheist, gay, homophobic, poor, rich, or any other goal you can list. The ideals of a place where you can basically do as you please so long as you don't hurt other people. Or, as Ronald Reagan put it "'the shining city upon a hill". They embody the ideals in their core values. For the Army it was "Duty, Honor, Country". For the Marines and the Navy it is "Honor, Courage, and Commitment". Not sure what the Air Force lists as it's core values, but I am certain they embody the ideal. So don't feel bad about living a hedonistic lifestyle if you so choose. You don't owe anyone a debt. It's already been paid.

Now, according to history, nations rise and fall in cycles. When the citizenry no longer respect the ideals of the nation well enough to subordinate a portion of self interest for the greater good; The nation begins to decline. Someone on the board wrote that rights were not given by government. True. But consider that those rights may be granted by god but they are protected or stolen by men.

What does all the above have to do with Casey Sheehan and the other honored dead whose names you won't be troubled to know? I hope it just serves as a simple reminder of the basic ideals of the country for all of us. Not just your or my personal self interest. I guess that if you've never played team sports or worked as a member of a team you simply won't get it. Even on a team where you "donate" a bit of self interest in order to accomplish a "a whole greater than the sum of it's parts" there is still room for the unselfish individual (a maybe even a selfish one or two).

Did that answer your question? Did it make sense? It's been a reeeeeeallly looooong day, so the brain is moveing faster than the fingers. If you don't get it, ask. I'll follow up tomorrow.

 

[CSM]

About duty. Legally speaking one has no obligation to "repay" the United States of America for providing the most forward thinking, freedom loving, tolerant, protected, and protective nation on earth. Heck you don't even have to be a citizen in order to garner all the advantages (and actually avoid a few of the disadvantages) this nation offers.

About those who died. I personally knew too many of them. Don't worry, they didn't know you, or die for you. You normally live your life in ignorance of what they do, where they go, or the hardships they endured whether in peace or war. Since neither group knows each other; What did they die for? The ideal. The ideal of a free nation where you can be a rugged individualist, an atheist, gay, homophobic, poor, rich, or any other goal you can list. The ideals of a place where you can basically do as you please so long as you don't hurt other people. Or, as Ronald Reagan put it "'the shining city upon a hill". They embody the ideals in their core values. For the Army it was "Duty, Honor, Country". For the Marines and the Navy it is "Honor, Courage, and Commitment". Not sure what the Air Force lists as it's core values, but I am certain they embody the ideal. So don't feel bad about living a hedonistic lifestyle if you so choose. You don't owe anyone a debt. It's already been paid.

Now, according to history, nations rise and fall in cycles. When the citizenry no longer respect the ideals of the nation well enough to subordinate a portion of self interest for the greater good; The nation begins to decline. Someone on the board wrote that rights were not given by government. True. But consider that those rights may be granted by god but they are protected or stolen by men.

What does all the above have to do with Casey Sheehan and the other honored dead whose names you won't be troubled to know? I hope it just serves as a simple reminder of the basic ideals of the country for all of us. Not just your or my personal self interest. I guess that if you've never played team sports or worked as a member of a team you simply won't get it. Even on a team where you "donate" a bit of self interest in order to accomplish a "a whole greater than the sum of it's parts" there is still room for the unselfish individual (a maybe even a selfish one or two).

Did that answer your question? Did it make sense? It's been a reeeeeeallly looooong day, so the brain is moveing faster than the fingers. If you don't get it, ask. I'll follow up tomorrow.

For a jarhead, you are fairly eloquent!

Well said, indeed!

 

[Oceanic]

Oceanic,
1. That Saddam Hussein was a direct and dangerous threat to the United States of America. When we went to war, the majority of nations in the world believed that Saddam either had WMD or the capability to make them. Casey believed that a terrible dictator with an extreme dislike of the United States of America and access to or the ability to get access to dangerous weapons that could kill millions needed to be stopped. And he believed that was worth fighting for, and dying for.

My main point was that this isn't true so is he still a hero? And why? Also what's with the personal attacks? Seems to be another party's mantra.

 

[Oceanic]

they fight to remove iraq from the rule of a dictator that killed and tortured his own people and violated the terms of the cease fire from the kuwait invasion....they continue to fight to prevent the rule of a similar man taking control of the country....

That's exactly why Bush said we were going in at the start, right? If the original reasons for going in were so valid why are new ones being brought up? He has WMDs. He doesn't? Ok then let's free the Iraqi people.

 

[Oceanic]

ALSO, this question hasn't been answered:

Who did they protect and from what?

 

[no1tovote4]

Funny, I didn't address anyone, people have opinions on me from my first post, and I'm a troll. About her son stepping up for what he believed in against opposition wouldn't this also make Cindy Sheehan a hero or do you have to go to war for that? And about 'protecting American' what do you mean? Anything they do by default is classified as that? How about Vietnam? They are in a place for a reason that was false, let's even say there is a new valid reason, does attacking B if they 'look to be' supporting A (which isn't proven, don't tell me it is without proof) are they heroes? Answer with your mind not your Republican handbook, I don't belong to a party by the way.

My point was he stepped up to his commitment regardless of opposition from those he loved. Cindy has simply used her sons death to progress the cause of the opposition, not to remember her son as the strong man he must have been to remain against such determined opposition because he had made a commitment to his fellow soldiers and country. Hey may not have believed in the mission, but he understood his obligation.

Running around and telling others how much they are wrong to believe what they believe is not the same thing. Also she has yet to make the ultimate sacrifice for her beliefs, a portion of being a hero is standing strong when fear tells you to bail, this is not one of the problems for Sheehan, she is surrounded by sycophants telling her how great she is.

 

[no1tovote4]

My main point was that this isn't true so is he still a hero? And why? Also what's with the personal attacks? Seems to be another party's mantra.

According to Cindy the reason he went there is to honor an obligation to his fellow soldiers. Putting himself in harms way to protect others is heroism regardless of the mission that he was called to perform. That there were no WMD has no bearing whatsoever on the courage and strength of conviction that makes this young man a hero. He knew that if he did not go another less trained and less qualified soldier would be with his fellow soldiers and they would be in more danger from his lack of commitment, he chose to honor that commitment regardless of strong opposition from his mother and, once again according to her, a personal disbelief in the mission. That is strength and courage.

One important thing to bring up here is he went after it was already known that the WMD were not there. This choice was made in full knowledge of his situation and he chose the route of courage rather than that of cowardice, this is what makes him a hero.

 

[Oceanic]

How about Vietnam? Obviously, by your slinging the Vietnam theory into the fray, you know little about it.

Of course I don't know anything about it, I don't agree with you.

We were the leaders of the free world in a global war against Communism.

Nevermind what I said, that changes things. [/sarcasm]

You naysayers

I..... wasn't around yet...

forced us to leave right when we could have won the easiest. But don't take MY word for that ..... go read some of Giap's stuff. He was only 2nd HMFIC in N Vietnam, and he clearly gives the leftists in this country the credit they deserve for the N Vietnamese keeping their hopes alive.

And of course winning would've made us heroes because ________

 

[Oceanic]

One important thing to bring up here is he went after it was already known that the WMD were not there. This choice was made in full knowledge of his situation and he chose the route of courage rather than that of cowardice, this is what makes him a hero.

If this is true my argument is invalid and I admit it.

 

[Gem]

Oceanic Wrote:

My main point was that this isn't true so is he still a hero? And why? Also what's with the personal attacks? Seems to be another party's mantra.

Please refer to the rest of my post for why Casey is still heroic. There were numerous reasons to invade Iraq. The fact that the world believed he had WMD was simply the one that was the easiest to attempt to bring before the UN (who, we know now, had no intention to support a war, legitimate or not, because of massive corruption).

Casey is a hero because he stood up for an important cause he believed in and was willing to put his life on the line for it. If he believed in nothing else, he believed in the men and women he fought with, and gave his life while protecting and serving with them. THAT'S heroic.


As to the last part of your post...what personal attacks are you referring to? Both partys utilize personal attacks when it suits them...attributing them to just one party is disingenous.

 

[Oceanic]

Oceanic Wrote:
Casey is a hero because he stood up for an important cause he believed in and was willing to put his life on the line for it. If he believed in nothing else, he believed in the men and women he fought with, and gave his life while protecting and serving with them. THAT'S heroic.

By that definition so are suicide bombers

As to the last part of your post...what personal attacks are you referring to? Both partys utilize personal attacks when it suits them...attributing them to just one party is disingenous.

I'll accept that.

 

[Annie]

By that definition so are suicide bombers

You totally ignored her previous post, right before this.

I'll accept that.

 

[Gunny]

Of course I don't know anything about it, I don't agree with you.

Is that self-delusional response the best you can do?


Nevermind what I said, that changes things. [/sarcasm]

You asked a question, numbnuts. So, if you don't like the answer you deflect, huh?


I..... wasn't around yet...

Please don't believe for a second THAT fact isn't apparent.

And of course winning would've made us heroes because ________

It would have meant global communism had been stopped on another front, but I did not use the term "heroes," so please refrain from putting it in my mouth.