Who Are The Palestinians?

[ChrisL]

The borders of Palestine were very clear as per the League of Nations. And the non-Jewish people living within those well-defined borders were called (and called themselves) Palestinians. The European colonizers in Palestine called themselves Zionists.

"Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.

On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.

The boundaries are described as follows:--

• • 
    South.--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.
    
    East.--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.
    
    North.--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.
    
    West.--The Mediterranean Sea."

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1932

That was 12 years after the original MANDATE so not valid for when the LoN made their promise based on this source document


Original letter[edit]
October 24, 1915.
I have received your letter of the 29th Shawal, 1333, with much pleasure and your expression of friendliness and sincerity have given me the greatest satisfaction. I regret that you should have received from my last letter the impression that I regarded the question of limits and boundaries with coldness and hesitation; such was not the case, but it appeared to me that the time had not yet come when that question could be discussed in a conclusive manner.

I have realised, however, from your last letter that you regard this question as one of vital and urgent importance. I have, therefore, lost no time in informing the Government of Great Britain of the contents of your letter, and it is with great pleasure that I communicate to you on their behalf the following statement, which I am confident you will receive with satisfaction. The two districts of Mersina and Alexandretta and portions of Syria lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Homs, Hama.and Aleppo cannot be said to be purely Arab, and should be excluded from the limits demanded. With the above modification, and without prejudice to our existing treaties with Arab chiefs, we accept those limits. As for those regions lying within those frontiers wherein Great Britain is free to act without detriment to the interests of her ally, France, I am empowered in the name of the Government of Great Britain to give the following assurances and make the following assurances and make the following reply to your letter: Subject to the above modifications, Great Britain is prepared to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs in all the regions within the limits demanded by the Sherif of Mecca. Great Britain will guarantee the Holy Places against all external aggression and will recognise their inviolability. When the situation admits, Great Britain will give to the Arabs her advice and will assist them to establish what may appear to be the most suitable forms of government those various territories. On the other hand, it is understood that the Arabs have decided to seek the advice and guidance of Great Britain only, and that such European advisers and officials as may be required for the formation of a sound form of administration will be British. With regard to the vilayets of Bagdad and Basra, the Arabs will recognise that the established position and interests of Great Britain necessitate special administrative arrangements in order to secure these territories from foreign aggression to promote the welfare of the local populations and to safeguard our mutual economic interests. I am convinced that this declaration will assure you beyond all possible doubt of the sympathy of Great Britain towards the aspirations of her friends the Arabs and will result in a firm and lasting alliance, the immediate results of which will be the expulsion of the Turks from the Arab countries and the freeing of the Arab peoples from the Turkish yoke, which for so many years has pressed heavily upon them. I have confined myself in this letter to the more vital and important questions, and if there are any other matters dealt with in your letters which I have omitted to mention, we may discuss them at some convenient date in the future. It was with very great relief and satisfaction that I heard of the safe arrival of the Holy Carpet and the accompanying offerings which, thanks to the clearness of your directions and the excellence of your arrangements, were landed without trouble or mishap in spite of the dangers and difficulties occasioned by the present sad war. May God soon bring a lasting peace and freedom of all peoples. I am sending this letter by the hand of your trusted and excellent messenger, Sheikh Mohammed ibn Arif ibn Uraifan, and he will inform you of the various matters of interest, but of less vital importance, which I have not mentioned in this letter.
(Compliments).
(Signed): A. HENRY MCMAHON.




And here is the map to go with the letter

"That was 12 years after the original MANDATE so not valid for when the LoN made their promise based on this source document"

No, it is the definition the borders of Palestine (not Trans-Jordania) as per the Mandate. They never changed.

The "Palestinians" were nothing but nomadic peoples. They had no defined territory ever.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Well, I don't think so.

• • 
    What laws has Israel broken? It would take hours, but let's just look at two.
    • 
      Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.
  Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

• 
  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Besides being victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide (read the definition of genocide before claiming that since the Palestinians have increased in number genocide doesn't apply).

(COMMENT)

With the exception of the ICJ, the specific laws cited where not yet in effect.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) was established in June 1945 by the Charter of the United Nations and began work in April 1946.

The International Court of Justice acts as a world court. The Court has a dual jurisdiction : it decides, in accordance with international law, disputes of a legal nature that are submitted to it by States (jurisdiction in contentious cases); and it gives advisory opinions on legal questions at the request of the organs of the United Nations or specialized agencies authorized to make such a request (advisory jurisdiction).​

Israel declared Independence in May 1948
Israel was admitted to the UN May 1949
Armistice Agreements mid-1949
The Geneva Convention VI went into force October 1950
The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court (July 2002)​

To start, the Mandatory/LoN/UN did not safeguard the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians, did not provide for the creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians in accordance with paragraph 4, Article 22, of the Covenant of the League of Nations, did not provide religious equality to the Christians and Muslim.

(OBSERVATION)

The Covenant of the League of Nations:

Article 22.

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war [World War I] have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the formance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Other peoples, especially those of Central Africa, are at such a stage that the Mandatory must be responsible for the administration of the territory under conditions which will guarantee freedom of conscience and religion, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, the prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic and the liquor traffic, and the prevention of the establishment of fortifications or military and naval bases and of military training of the natives for other than police purposes and the defence of territory, and will also secure equal opportunities for the trade
and commerce of other Members of the League.

There are territories, such as South-West Africa and certain of the South Pacific Islands, which, owing to the sparseness of their population, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilization, or their geographical contiguity to the territory of the Mandatory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the laws of the Mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above-mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population.

In every case of Mandate, the Mandatory shall render to the Council an annual report in reference to the territory committed to its charge.

The degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

A permanent Commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the Mandatories and to advise the Council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates.​

(COMMENT)

The Article 22/4 of the LoN Covenant, does not say anything along the line: "creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians." It does mention the provisional recognition of independent nations; but with no specificity.

The LoN Covenant did not stipulate any safeguards relative to the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians. However, the Preamble and Article 2 of the Mandate for Palestine, does stipulate "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion." However it does stipulate that "The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home."

Having said that, it is very consistent with the Trustee System "to promote the political, economic, social, and educational advancement of the inhabitants of the trust territories, and their progressive development towards self-government or independence," during benevolent administration.

Again, I fail to find anything that could be considered a violation of the LoN Covenant or the UN Charter; as you have indicated.

(COMMENT) --- Spirit and Intent

Relative to the specific allegation, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group; or the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race.

• 
  (a) Killing members of the group;
  
  (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  
  (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  
  (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  
  (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The State of Israel has no policy or criminal intent to destroy or to cripple permanently the Arab Palestinian. The State of Israel does not perform acts that are directed against Arab Palestinians or a program of destruction only because they belong to the group of Arab Palestinians. (Defining genocide: the Nürnberg Charter --- Encyclopedia Britannica).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Well, I don't think so.

• • 
    What laws has Israel broken? It would take hours, but let's just look at two.
    • 
      Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.
  Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

• 
  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Besides being victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide (read the definition of genocide before claiming that since the Palestinians have increased in number genocide doesn't apply).

(COMMENT)

With the exception of the ICJ, the specific laws cited where not yet in effect.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) was established in June 1945 by the Charter of the United Nations and began work in April 1946.

The International Court of Justice acts as a world court. The Court has a dual jurisdiction : it decides, in accordance with international law, disputes of a legal nature that are submitted to it by States (jurisdiction in contentious cases); and it gives advisory opinions on legal questions at the request of the organs of the United Nations or specialized agencies authorized to make such a request (advisory jurisdiction).​

Israel declared Independence in May 1948
Israel was admitted to the UN May 1949
Armistice Agreements mid-1949
The Geneva Convention VI went into force October 1950
The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court (July 2002)​

To start, the Mandatory/LoN/UN did not safeguard the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians, did not provide for the creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians in accordance with paragraph 4, Article 22, of the Covenant of the League of Nations, did not provide religious equality to the Christians and Muslim.

(OBSERVATION)

The Covenant of the League of Nations:

Article 22.

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war [World War I] have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the formance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Other peoples, especially those of Central Africa, are at such a stage that the Mandatory must be responsible for the administration of the territory under conditions which will guarantee freedom of conscience and religion, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, the prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic and the liquor traffic, and the prevention of the establishment of fortifications or military and naval bases and of military training of the natives for other than police purposes and the defence of territory, and will also secure equal opportunities for the trade
and commerce of other Members of the League.

There are territories, such as South-West Africa and certain of the South Pacific Islands, which, owing to the sparseness of their population, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilization, or their geographical contiguity to the territory of the Mandatory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the laws of the Mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above-mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population.

In every case of Mandate, the Mandatory shall render to the Council an annual report in reference to the territory committed to its charge.

The degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

A permanent Commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the Mandatories and to advise the Council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates.​

(COMMENT)

The Article 22/4 of the LoN Covenant, does not say anything along the line: "creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians." It does mention the provisional recognition of independent nations; but with no specificity.

The LoN Covenant did not stipulate any safeguards relative to the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians. However, the Preamble and Article 2 of the Mandate for Palestine, does stipulate "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion." However it does stipulate that "The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home."

Having said that, it is very consistent with the Trustee System "to promote the political, economic, social, and educational advancement of the inhabitants of the trust territories, and their progressive development towards self-government or independence," during benevolent administration.

Again, I fail to find anything that could be considered a violation of the LoN Covenant or the UN Charter; as you have indicated.

(COMMENT) --- Spirit and Intent

Relative to the specific allegation, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group; or the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race.

• 
  (a) Killing members of the group;
  
  (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  
  (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  
  (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  
  (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The State of Israel has no policy or criminal intent to destroy or to cripple permanently the Arab Palestinian. The State of Israel does not perform acts that are directed against Arab Palestinians or a program of destruction only because they belong to the group of Arab Palestinians. (Defining genocide: the Nürnberg Charter --- Encyclopedia Britannica).

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, Rocco. Your response attempts to utilize loopholes that don't exist, in an attempt expunge the "crimes" of both the LoN/UN/British and Israel. You know full well that the crimes have been committed and are acting as any good defense lawyer would however, without debunking all of your response, let's just remember that:

1. Israel is transferring population to the Occupied Territories as we speak. So the Convention applies.
2. Israel does have a policy of crippling and destroying the Christians and Muslims of Palestine. Whether the intent is to cripple and destroy permanently or not, has no bearing.

and, no one can deny that Israel is:

Killing members of the group;

(Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(i.e. withholding Palestinian taxes, blockading Gaza, etc.)

As far as the UN/LoN it is clear that placing a part of the Christian and Muslim population under Jewish rule was a violation of the Mandate. They even made it clear that there was no such intent in the 1922 White Paper:

"Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab delegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

The Avalon Project British White Paper of June 1922

 

[Hossfly]

montelatici, et al,

Well, I don't think so.

• • 
    What laws has Israel broken? It would take hours, but let's just look at two.
    • 
      Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.
  Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

• 
  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Besides being victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide (read the definition of genocide before claiming that since the Palestinians have increased in number genocide doesn't apply).

(COMMENT)

With the exception of the ICJ, the specific laws cited where not yet in effect.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) was established in June 1945 by the Charter of the United Nations and began work in April 1946.

The International Court of Justice acts as a world court. The Court has a dual jurisdiction : it decides, in accordance with international law, disputes of a legal nature that are submitted to it by States (jurisdiction in contentious cases); and it gives advisory opinions on legal questions at the request of the organs of the United Nations or specialized agencies authorized to make such a request (advisory jurisdiction).​

Israel declared Independence in May 1948
Israel was admitted to the UN May 1949
Armistice Agreements mid-1949
The Geneva Convention VI went into force October 1950
The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court (July 2002)​

To start, the Mandatory/LoN/UN did not safeguard the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians, did not provide for the creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians in accordance with paragraph 4, Article 22, of the Covenant of the League of Nations, did not provide religious equality to the Christians and Muslim.

(OBSERVATION)

The Covenant of the League of Nations:

Article 22.

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war [World War I] have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the formance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Other peoples, especially those of Central Africa, are at such a stage that the Mandatory must be responsible for the administration of the territory under conditions which will guarantee freedom of conscience and religion, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, the prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic and the liquor traffic, and the prevention of the establishment of fortifications or military and naval bases and of military training of the natives for other than police purposes and the defence of territory, and will also secure equal opportunities for the trade
and commerce of other Members of the League.

There are territories, such as South-West Africa and certain of the South Pacific Islands, which, owing to the sparseness of their population, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilization, or their geographical contiguity to the territory of the Mandatory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the laws of the Mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above-mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population.

In every case of Mandate, the Mandatory shall render to the Council an annual report in reference to the territory committed to its charge.

The degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

A permanent Commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the Mandatories and to advise the Council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates.​

(COMMENT)

The Article 22/4 of the LoN Covenant, does not say anything along the line: "creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians." It does mention the provisional recognition of independent nations; but with no specificity.

The LoN Covenant did not stipulate any safeguards relative to the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians. However, the Preamble and Article 2 of the Mandate for Palestine, does stipulate "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion." However it does stipulate that "The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home."

Having said that, it is very consistent with the Trustee System "to promote the political, economic, social, and educational advancement of the inhabitants of the trust territories, and their progressive development towards self-government or independence," during benevolent administration.

Again, I fail to find anything that could be considered a violation of the LoN Covenant or the UN Charter; as you have indicated.

(COMMENT) --- Spirit and Intent

Relative to the specific allegation, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group; or the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race.

• 
  (a) Killing members of the group;
  
  (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  
  (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  
  (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  
  (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The State of Israel has no policy or criminal intent to destroy or to cripple permanently the Arab Palestinian. The State of Israel does not perform acts that are directed against Arab Palestinians or a program of destruction only because they belong to the group of Arab Palestinians. (Defining genocide: the Nürnberg Charter --- Encyclopedia Britannica).

Most Respectfully,
R

RoccoR , when you're trying to instruct a one-cell organism, it might be a good idea to use charts, graphs and a slide projector. Monte was raised on PacMan.

 

[montelatici]

The dunce in the peanut gallery speaks. Why don't leave this discussion to the adults, you are out of your element.

 

[Muhammed]

The borders of Palestine were very clear as per the League of Nations. And the non-Jewish people living within those well-defined borders were called (and called themselves) Palestinians. The European colonizers in Palestine called themselves Zionists.

"Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.

On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.

The boundaries are described as follows:--

• • 
    South.--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.
    
    East.--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.
    
    North.--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.
    
    West.--The Mediterranean Sea."

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1932

That was 12 years after the original MANDATE so not valid for when the LoN made their promise based on this source document


Original letter[edit]
October 24, 1915.
I have received your letter of the 29th Shawal, 1333, with much pleasure and your expression of friendliness and sincerity have given me the greatest satisfaction. I regret that you should have received from my last letter the impression that I regarded the question of limits and boundaries with coldness and hesitation; such was not the case, but it appeared to me that the time had not yet come when that question could be discussed in a conclusive manner.

I have realised, however, from your last letter that you regard this question as one of vital and urgent importance. I have, therefore, lost no time in informing the Government of Great Britain of the contents of your letter, and it is with great pleasure that I communicate to you on their behalf the following statement, which I am confident you will receive with satisfaction. The two districts of Mersina and Alexandretta and portions of Syria lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Homs, Hama.and Aleppo cannot be said to be purely Arab, and should be excluded from the limits demanded. With the above modification, and without prejudice to our existing treaties with Arab chiefs, we accept those limits. As for those regions lying within those frontiers wherein Great Britain is free to act without detriment to the interests of her ally, France, I am empowered in the name of the Government of Great Britain to give the following assurances and make the following assurances and make the following reply to your letter: Subject to the above modifications, Great Britain is prepared to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs in all the regions within the limits demanded by the Sherif of Mecca. Great Britain will guarantee the Holy Places against all external aggression and will recognise their inviolability. When the situation admits, Great Britain will give to the Arabs her advice and will assist them to establish what may appear to be the most suitable forms of government those various territories. On the other hand, it is understood that the Arabs have decided to seek the advice and guidance of Great Britain only, and that such European advisers and officials as may be required for the formation of a sound form of administration will be British. With regard to the vilayets of Bagdad and Basra, the Arabs will recognise that the established position and interests of Great Britain necessitate special administrative arrangements in order to secure these territories from foreign aggression to promote the welfare of the local populations and to safeguard our mutual economic interests. I am convinced that this declaration will assure you beyond all possible doubt of the sympathy of Great Britain towards the aspirations of her friends the Arabs and will result in a firm and lasting alliance, the immediate results of which will be the expulsion of the Turks from the Arab countries and the freeing of the Arab peoples from the Turkish yoke, which for so many years has pressed heavily upon them. I have confined myself in this letter to the more vital and important questions, and if there are any other matters dealt with in your letters which I have omitted to mention, we may discuss them at some convenient date in the future. It was with very great relief and satisfaction that I heard of the safe arrival of the Holy Carpet and the accompanying offerings which, thanks to the clearness of your directions and the excellence of your arrangements, were landed without trouble or mishap in spite of the dangers and difficulties occasioned by the present sad war. May God soon bring a lasting peace and freedom of all peoples. I am sending this letter by the hand of your trusted and excellent messenger, Sheikh Mohammed ibn Arif ibn Uraifan, and he will inform you of the various matters of interest, but of less vital importance, which I have not mentioned in this letter.
(Compliments).
(Signed): A. HENRY MCMAHON.




And here is the map to go with the letter

"That was 12 years after the original MANDATE so not valid for when the LoN made their promise based on this source document"

No, it is the definition the borders of Palestine (not Trans-Jordania) as per the Mandate. They never changed.

The "Palestinians" were nothing but nomadic peoples. They had no defined territory ever.

Yes they did ChrisL. It's called Palestine for a reason.

 

[Kondor3]

...It's called Palestine for a reason.

Correction.

It WAS called Palestine.

Today, it's called Israel.

Along with a handful of slivers of remaining Muslim-controlled land-parcels known collectively as Residual or Rump Palestine.

 

[Muhammed]

...It's called Palestine for a reason.

Correction.

It WAS called Palestine.

Today, it's called Israel.

Along with a handful of slivers of remaining Muslim-controlled land-parcels known collectively as Residual or Rump Palestine.

Are you too ignorant to comprehend the difference between Israel and Palestine?

 

[Kondor3]

...It's called Palestine for a reason.

Correction.

It WAS called Palestine.

Today, it's called Israel.

Along with a handful of slivers of remaining Muslim-controlled land-parcels known collectively as Residual or Rump Palestine.

Are you too ignorant to comprehend the difference between Israel and Palestine?

Nope.

Palestine is the past.

Israel is the present and the future.

Hope that helps.

 

[montelatici]

Well, I guess that's how the supporters of Israel have to think. But, looking at the dynamics neutrally, it doesn't look good for a Jew ruled enclave for the long term. If the Jews compromise, then there is a chance that a secular democratic state with equal rights for all the people currently in Palestine (including Israel) might actually be successful.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Some how we switched gears. I was presenting an opinion on the suggestion that the Jewish Immigration to Israel was an "invasion from Europe" and that it was a colonial project (obviously unsponsored). But I can switch gears.

montelatici, et al,

Well, I don't think so.

• • 
    What laws has Israel broken? It would take hours, but let's just look at two.
    • 
      Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.
  Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

• 
  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Besides being victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide (read the definition of genocide before claiming that since the Palestinians have increased in number genocide doesn't apply).

(COMMENT)

With the exception of the ICJ, the specific laws cited where not yet in effect.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) was established in June 1945 by the Charter of the United Nations and began work in April 1946.

The International Court of Justice acts as a world court. The Court has a dual jurisdiction : it decides, in accordance with international law, disputes of a legal nature that are submitted to it by States (jurisdiction in contentious cases); and it gives advisory opinions on legal questions at the request of the organs of the United Nations or specialized agencies authorized to make such a request (advisory jurisdiction).​

Israel declared Independence in May 1948
Israel was admitted to the UN May 1949
Armistice Agreements mid-1949
The Geneva Convention VI went into force October 1950
The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court (July 2002)​

To start, the Mandatory/LoN/UN did not safeguard the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians, did not provide for the creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians in accordance with paragraph 4, Article 22, of the Covenant of the League of Nations, did not provide religious equality to the Christians and Muslim.

(OBSERVATION)

The Covenant of the League of Nations:

Article 22.

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war [World War I] have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the formance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Other peoples, especially those of Central Africa, are at such a stage that the Mandatory must be responsible for the administration of the territory under conditions which will guarantee freedom of conscience and religion, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, the prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic and the liquor traffic, and the prevention of the establishment of fortifications or military and naval bases and of military training of the natives for other than police purposes and the defence of territory, and will also secure equal opportunities for the trade
and commerce of other Members of the League.

There are territories, such as South-West Africa and certain of the South Pacific Islands, which, owing to the sparseness of their population, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilization, or their geographical contiguity to the territory of the Mandatory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the laws of the Mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above-mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population.

In every case of Mandate, the Mandatory shall render to the Council an annual report in reference to the territory committed to its charge.

The degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

A permanent Commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the Mandatories and to advise the Council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates.​

(COMMENT)

The Article 22/4 of the LoN Covenant, does not say anything along the line: "creation of a national independent Government for the Muslims and Christians." It does mention the provisional recognition of independent nations; but with no specificity.

The LoN Covenant did not stipulate any safeguards relative to the civil, political and economic interests of the Muslims and Christians. However, the Preamble and Article 2 of the Mandate for Palestine, does stipulate "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion." However it does stipulate that "The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home."

Having said that, it is very consistent with the Trustee System "to promote the political, economic, social, and educational advancement of the inhabitants of the trust territories, and their progressive development towards self-government or independence," during benevolent administration.

Again, I fail to find anything that could be considered a violation of the LoN Covenant or the UN Charter; as you have indicated.

(COMMENT) --- Spirit and Intent

Relative to the specific allegation, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group; or the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race.

• 
  (a) Killing members of the group;
  
  (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  
  (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  
  (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  
  (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The State of Israel has no policy or criminal intent to destroy or to cripple permanently the Arab Palestinian. The State of Israel does not perform acts that are directed against Arab Palestinians or a program of destruction only because they belong to the group of Arab Palestinians. (Defining genocide: the Nürnberg Charter --- Encyclopedia Britannica).

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, Rocco. Your response attempts to utilize loopholes that don't exist, in an attempt expunge the "crimes" of both the LoN/UN/British and Israel. You know full well that the crimes have been committed and are acting as any good defense lawyer would however, without debunking all of your response, let's just remember that:

1. Israel is transferring population to the Occupied Territories as we speak. So the Convention applies.
2. Israel does have a policy of crippling and destroying the Christians and Muslims of Palestine. Whether the intent is to cripple and destroy permanently or not, has no bearing.

and, no one can deny that Israel is:

Killing members of the group;

(Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(i.e. withholding Palestinian taxes, blockading Gaza, etc.)

As far as the UN/LoN it is clear that placing a part of the Christian and Muslim population under Jewish rule was a violation of the Mandate. They even made it clear that there was no such intent in the 1922 White Paper:

"Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab delegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

The Avalon Project British White Paper of June 1922

(COMMENT)

I deny that Israel has a program to eradicate the Arab Palestinian. While a number of Arab Palestinians have been killed, it is nothing even approximating the scope, magnitude and numbers to raise the casualties of the Jihadist and Belligerent Occupation as a program of "Genocide."

Israel has no program or plan to Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part of the Arab Palestinian people. For each and every security countermeasure put in place, there was a legitimate reason for the containment measure.

Israel is exercising its negotiate rights under the Oslo Accords concerning the settlements. The settlement issue is subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiations. It is not a Geneva Convention matter.

As far as the UN/LoN it is clear that placing a part of the Christian and Muslim population under Jewish rule was a violation of the Mandate. They even made it clear that there was no such intent in the 1922 White Paper: Nothing in the Charter, the Covenant, or the mandate even addresses this issue. And while it is true that in 1933, the Mandatory did not envision making the entire landscape of the Palestine territory under Mandate the Jewish National Home, (which never happened anyway), nothing prevented the UN as the trustee, from Partitioning the territory.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ChrisL]

...It's called Palestine for a reason.

Correction.

It WAS called Palestine.

Today, it's called Israel.

Along with a handful of slivers of remaining Muslim-controlled land-parcels known collectively as Residual or Rump Palestine.

Are you too ignorant to comprehend the difference between Israel and Palestine?

Nope.

Palestine is the past.

Israel is the present and the future.

Hope that helps.

I've met a few Israelis. Good people.

 

[Phoenall]

You never do when they are ISLAMONAZI ones, then claim that the evidence proving it is flawed and Zionist lies. Proving to everyone that you are an ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST

As you have discovered, all my links are to neutral official archives or Jewish archives. The facts are bothersome to someone that has only been fed propaganda. I feel your pain.

WRONG AGAIN ABDUL they may in archives but that does not make them neutral, the one you push the most is far from neutral as you have been told. Even Winston Churchill condemned them as ANTI SEMITIC and LIES

The Survey, specifically, is in the archives of the UN, because it was were used to justify the giving more than 50% of Palestine to the Zionists, so yes, it is not neutral, it is pro-Zionist. Unfortunately for you ZioNazis, even a pro-Zionist survey has to be based on some fact. Just imagine if the Survey had been prepared by neutrals.

Get it through your thick skull, Zionists don't have a leg to stand on, with respect to their invasion/colonization of Palestine and the resultant expulsion of the indigenous people of the Christian and Muslim faiths. It's as simple as that. The sooner the Jews begin serious negotiations and enfranchise the non-Jews they now have control over, the sooner peace will come and disaster averted.

Get it right the ISLAMONAZIS got 78% of Palestine leaving the Jews with 22% that the ISLAMONAZIS did not want.

Maybe this will help you under stand that the Jews were the ones who worked the land and not the arab muslims

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

Well, a Christian Zionist magazine is certainly source documentation. But now the facts in the Mandatory's first Report to the League of Nations:

AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. ​

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Which has been proven to be ANTI SEMITIC LIES

 

[Muhammed]

USS Liberty

 

[Muhammed]

Israel is the most powerful racist entity on the planet. More racist than the KKK or Black Panthers. Israel is not an ally of the USA. Israel has never been and never will be an ally of the USA.

 

[theliq]

As you have discovered, all my links are to neutral official archives or Jewish archives. The facts are bothersome to someone that has only been fed propaganda. I feel your pain.

WRONG AGAIN ABDUL they may in archives but that does not make them neutral, the one you push the most is far from neutral as you have been told. Even Winston Churchill condemned them as ANTI SEMITIC and LIES

The Survey, specifically, is in the archives of the UN, because it was were used to justify the giving more than 50% of Palestine to the Zionists, so yes, it is not neutral, it is pro-Zionist. Unfortunately for you ZioNazis, even a pro-Zionist survey has to be based on some fact. Just imagine if the Survey had been prepared by neutrals.

Get it through your thick skull, Zionists don't have a leg to stand on, with respect to their invasion/colonization of Palestine and the resultant expulsion of the indigenous people of the Christian and Muslim faiths. It's as simple as that. The sooner the Jews begin serious negotiations and enfranchise the non-Jews they now have control over, the sooner peace will come and disaster averted.

Get it right the ISLAMONAZIS got 78% of Palestine leaving the Jews with 22% that the ISLAMONAZIS did not want.

Maybe this will help you under stand that the Jews were the ones who worked the land and not the arab muslims

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

Well, a Christian Zionist magazine is certainly source documentation. But now the facts in the Mandatory's first Report to the League of Nations:

AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. ​

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Which has been proven to be ANTI SEMITIC LIES

You Jews are a funny lot,mind you most of you are not even Semitic anyway....but you have this term called Anti-Semitic and it's all bullshit,as no other ethnic group have such a term.

If I ever got called a Fcucking Big Nosed Drongo Anglo Australian........I think who gives a fcuk...I couldn't give a Shit

But if the same was said to a Jewish person.....O blimey it's all this Anti-Semitism nonsense.......methinks you hide,Stand Tall and Enjoy your Jewishness.....think who gives a fcuk and don't give a Shit..just sayin........

 

[Muhammed]

...It's called Palestine for a reason.

Correction.

It WAS called Palestine.

Today, it's called Israel.

Along with a handful of slivers of remaining Muslim-controlled land-parcels known collectively as Residual or Rump Palestine.

Are you too ignorant to comprehend the difference between Israel and Palestine?

Nope.

Palestine is the past.

Israel is the present and the future.

Hope that helps.

I've met a few Israelis. Good people.

And I've dated a few hot Arab girls from Palistine. So often that I can actually speak Arabic. I could never read or write Arabic script, but I can carry on a conversation in Arabic.

 

[RoshanNair]

...It's called Palestine for a reason.

Correction.

It WAS called Palestine.

Today, it's called Israel.

Along with a handful of slivers of remaining Muslim-controlled land-parcels known collectively as Residual or Rump Palestine.

Are you too ignorant to comprehend the difference between Israel and Palestine?

Nope.

Palestine is the past.

Israel is the present and the future.

Hope that helps.

I've met a few Israelis. Good people.

And I've dated a few hot Arab girls from Palistine. So often that I can actually speak Arabic. I could never read or write Arabic script, but I can carry on a conversation in Arabic.

How do they feel about your choice for an avatar? Any fatwas on your head, Mo?

 

[Kondor3]

Israel is the most powerful racist entity on the planet. More racist than the KKK or Black Panthers. Israel is not an ally of the USA. Israel has never been and never will be an ally of the USA.

Israel is 'racist'?

So-called 'native' Palestinians (Muslim-Arabs) are a polyglut of peoples from the land itself and the surrounding lands - more of a genetic ghoulash than many other parts of the world - so, I'm not sure that we can call the Palestinians a 'race'.

But Israel is, indeed, in the process of establishing and consolidating a National Home for the Jews - adherents (and the descendants of adherents) of Judaism in its diverse branches and offshoots - including true Semitic Jews, Russian Jews, European Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Egyptian and Berber Jews, and related regions and sources.

Rather than a 'race' of Jews, we are looking at the Jewish Religion, in the process of a Reconquista of the Holy Land - akin to the Spanish Reconquista, which lasted for centuries, and which corrected a long-standing and invasive Muslim presence in Spain, which ended in the reunification of that land, ending the Muslim foothold in Western Europe.

In the case of the Jews, in our present age, this means that they are pushing-out those who stand in their way; allowing non-Jews (Muslims and Christians) to remain in-place so long as they do not actively resist this Reconquista, but firmly pushing-out those who do.

The last 66+ years (since 1948) have been all about this process, and are symmetrical with the expulsion of over 1,000,000 Jews from Muslim-dominated countries in the period 1948-1975, in which Jewish citizens of those countries were uprooted and ejected, or otherwise pressured to leave, simply because of their religious confession.

This is no different, and, in the case of the Jews, they have no place else to go, as a People - and their adversaries pose an existential threat directed towards them, unlike the peaceful Jews expelled by their Muslim countrymen in other regions.

And, given the second-class citizenship status of non-Muslims in several nearby Muslim-dominated countries, and the history of Dhimmitude with which Islam has lorded it over Unbelievers throughout the long centuries, this pushing-out and pressuring of non-Jews, to quit the land, and to pack up and leave, is as much payback as it is something new.

I don't think the Jews of Israel are 'racist' - merely insistent upon Israel becoming primarily a place for Jews of all races.

Hell, the home base of Islam - Arabia - and its cities of Mecca and Medina - are not exactly welcoming of non-Muslims, and that's right next-door to Israel.

As to Israel being an ally of the US or not...

I think Israel is a better ally than any of the other regional powers could ever be...

There are flaws in the relationship, and, every so often, one of us or the other screws-over its counterpart, in some minor way or another, but, given the diversity and differences of interests and priorities and motives, it's a genuine alliance, on a par with those of several of our European allies.

 

[montelatici]

As you have discovered, all my links are to neutral official archives or Jewish archives. The facts are bothersome to someone that has only been fed propaganda. I feel your pain.

WRONG AGAIN ABDUL they may in archives but that does not make them neutral, the one you push the most is far from neutral as you have been told. Even Winston Churchill condemned them as ANTI SEMITIC and LIES

The Survey, specifically, is in the archives of the UN, because it was were used to justify the giving more than 50% of Palestine to the Zionists, so yes, it is not neutral, it is pro-Zionist. Unfortunately for you ZioNazis, even a pro-Zionist survey has to be based on some fact. Just imagine if the Survey had been prepared by neutrals.

Get it through your thick skull, Zionists don't have a leg to stand on, with respect to their invasion/colonization of Palestine and the resultant expulsion of the indigenous people of the Christian and Muslim faiths. It's as simple as that. The sooner the Jews begin serious negotiations and enfranchise the non-Jews they now have control over, the sooner peace will come and disaster averted.

Get it right the ISLAMONAZIS got 78% of Palestine leaving the Jews with 22% that the ISLAMONAZIS did not want.

Maybe this will help you under stand that the Jews were the ones who worked the land and not the arab muslims

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

Well, a Christian Zionist magazine is certainly source documentation. But now the facts in the Mandatory's first Report to the League of Nations:

AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. ​

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Which has been proven to be ANTI SEMITIC LIES

No, they are the facts as reported to the League of Nations by the Mandatory. You can whine and stamp your feet all you want Phoney, but those are the facts. Unfortunately you have been fed propaganda all your life and have never thought to do some proper research on your own, of source documents.