Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[montelatici]

Hamas doesn't use human shields. Stating something that is patently false is lying. All you do is repeat Israeli propaganda which obviously, tries to put the blame on the Palestinians, the victims. You just can't make false accusations, based on Israeli propaganda, and not be subject to being called what you are.

The myth of Hamas’s human shields

'Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?"

Israel-Gaza conflict The myth of Hamas s human shields - Middle East - World - The Independent

"5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields'

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

 

[SAYIT]

"Based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: during Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defense Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in the combat zones than any other army in the history of warfare" - Col Richard Kemp, British Army Ret.

3 minute video of testimony before UNHRC of former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan Col. Richard Kemp on conduct of the IDF and Hamas's use of human shields:

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

So your contention is that HAMAS does not fire rockets and mortars from densely populated areas, from close proximity to UN Shelters, or nearby hospitals and care facilities.

Hamas doesn't use human shields. Stating something that is patently false is lying. All you do is repeat Israeli propaganda which obviously, tries to put the blame on the Palestinians, the victims. You just can't make false accusations, based on Israeli propaganda, and not be subject to being called what you are.

The myth of Hamas’s human shields

'Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?"

Israel-Gaza conflict The myth of Hamas s human shields - Middle East - World - The Independent

"5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields'

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

(COMMENT)

So, then --- the media is wrong --- this did not happen:

​

This did not happen either:

​

Globe and CBC Acknowledge Hamas Fires Rockets From Palestinian Civilian Areas

Following the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, Canadian journalists Patrick Martin of the Globe and Mail and Derek Stoffel of CBC both acknowledge having personally witnessed Hamas terrorists firing rockets from within Palestinian civilian areas.

Patrick Martin today details how he saw a long-range rocket fired near a UN school filled with over 1,000 people:

“Israelis said they sought to destroy rocket launch sites and arsenals, both often concealed within populated areas. On three occasions, Hamas was found to have used United Nations schools to conceal armaments. This correspondent witnessed the launch of a pair of long-range rockets from a site in Jabaliya, very near a UN school filled with more than 1,000 people seeking refuge from Israeli shelling in their home neighbourhoods.”

Derek Stoffel on CBC National yesterday noted that Israel says “Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields” and then stated that “Over the past few weeks Peter, I’ve seen several rockets from where I am tonight in northern Gaza, we wanted to talk to Hamas but were told its fighters aren’t ready just yet to speak to reporters.”​

By the way: Mehdi Hasan is a presenter for Al Jazeera English.

As for Jeremy Bowen, he is well known:

By David Vance | July 12, 2014 | BBC bias

I have to be honest and say that I did a double take when reading Jeremy Bowen’s twitter feed. I THOUGHT it has to be a parody but evidently not. Hamas must love him.
Over the years, we have covered many of the flare ups in this region and the BBC bias is truly visceral. Palestinians are ALWAYS innocent victims and Israelis are ALWAYS the aggressors. The script never changes. Never any investigation into how Hamas operate. Never any consideration of why Hamas rockets Israel on a daily basis. The three young Israelis boys kidnapped and shot to death now forgotten. Most times, I can brush off the BBC bias with the contempt it deserves BUT when it comes to this vile Palestinian propaganda machine, it makes me seethe with anger.
​

You can choose what you want to believe. But there is no question in my mind that HAMAS uses launch platforms from with civilian areas.

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

So your contention is that HAMAS does not fire rockets and mortars from densely populated areas, from close proximity to UN Shelters, or nearby hospitals and care facilities.

Hamas doesn't use human shields. Stating something that is patently false is lying. All you do is repeat Israeli propaganda which obviously, tries to put the blame on the Palestinians, the victims. You just can't make false accusations, based on Israeli propaganda, and not be subject to being called what you are.

The myth of Hamas’s human shields

'Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?"

Israel-Gaza conflict The myth of Hamas s human shields - Middle East - World - The Independent

"5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields'

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

(COMMENT)

So, then --- the media is wrong --- this did not happen:

​

This did not happen either:

​

Globe and CBC Acknowledge Hamas Fires Rockets From Palestinian Civilian Areas

Following the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, Canadian journalists Patrick Martin of the Globe and Mail and Derek Stoffel of CBC both acknowledge having personally witnessed Hamas terrorists firing rockets from within Palestinian civilian areas.

Patrick Martin today details how he saw a long-range rocket fired near a UN school filled with over 1,000 people:

“Israelis said they sought to destroy rocket launch sites and arsenals, both often concealed within populated areas. On three occasions, Hamas was found to have used United Nations schools to conceal armaments. This correspondent witnessed the launch of a pair of long-range rockets from a site in Jabaliya, very near a UN school filled with more than 1,000 people seeking refuge from Israeli shelling in their home neighbourhoods.”

Derek Stoffel on CBC National yesterday noted that Israel says “Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields” and then stated that “Over the past few weeks Peter, I’ve seen several rockets from where I am tonight in northern Gaza, we wanted to talk to Hamas but were told its fighters aren’t ready just yet to speak to reporters.”​

By the way: Mehdi Hasan is a presenter for Al Jazeera English.

As for Jeremy Bowen, he is well known:

By David Vance | July 12, 2014 | BBC bias

I have to be honest and say that I did a double take when reading Jeremy Bowen’s twitter feed. I THOUGHT it has to be a parody but evidently not. Hamas must love him.
Over the years, we have covered many of the flare ups in this region and the BBC bias is truly visceral. Palestinians are ALWAYS innocent victims and Israelis are ALWAYS the aggressors. The script never changes. Never any investigation into how Hamas operate. Never any consideration of why Hamas rockets Israel on a daily basis. The three young Israelis boys kidnapped and shot to death now forgotten. Most times, I can brush off the BBC bias with the contempt it deserves BUT when it comes to this vile Palestinian propaganda machine, it makes me seethe with anger.
​

You can choose what you want to believe. But there is no question in my mind that HAMAS uses launch platforms from with civilian areas.

​

Most Respectfully,
R

I'm willing to bet that Monti will respond to your post with "Zionist propaganda !!"

 

[montelatici]

My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields. Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.

The Palestinians are defending themselves. There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.

"6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

 

[SAYIT]

My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields. Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.

The Palestinians are defending themselves. There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.

"6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their hotel window. Furthermore, UNRWA was forced to admit (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.

 

[montelatici]

My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields. Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.

The Palestinians are defending themselves. There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.

"6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their hotel window. Furthermore, UNRWA was forced to admit (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.

Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel. The UN did not admit reluctantly, they pro-actively found arms in closed schools and had them removed, The schools that the Israelis bombed were filled with women and children and had no arms in them. The UN had given the IDF the coordinates of the shelter schools and the IDF used the coordinates to bomb them.

 

[SAYIT]

My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields. Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.

The Palestinians are defending themselves. There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.

"6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their hotel window. Furthermore, UNRWA was forced to admit (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.

Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...

Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.

 

[montelatici]

Wow, didn't think it would take so little time. LOL

The Hasbara Campus Blog


"Col. Richard Kemp of the United Nations Watch said the Israel Defense Forces “did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.”

Hasbara Fellowships - The Hasbara Campus Blog

 

[SAYIT]

Wow, didn't think it would take so little time. LOL

The Hasbara Campus Blog


"Col. Richard Kemp of the United Nations Watch said the Israel Defense Forces “did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.”

Hasbara Fellowships - The Hasbara Campus Blog

Nowhere does that campus blogger claim or substantiate your charge that "Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel" and posting in large, colorful font adds nothing to your libel of a respected British officer. Either post proof of your charge or admit you lied again because the truth is a foreign concept to you.

 

[montelatici]

If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you. Grow up. The guy is a tool.

How about something from a neutral source. CBS.

"U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields"

U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News

 

[SAYIT]

If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you. Grow up. The guy is a tool. How about something from a neutral source. CBS.
U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News

That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say nothing about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.

 

[aris2chat]

If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you. Grow up. The guy is a tool. How about something from a neutral source. CBS.
U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News

That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say nothing about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.

Enjoying wacking monte mole?

 

[montelatici]

If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you. Grow up. The guy is a tool. How about something from a neutral source. CBS.
U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News

That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say nothing about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.

You are the dime a dozen Zionist myth promoter that the "1913 Seeds of Conflict" exposed. Kemp makes good money for his speeches. I have substantiated that Kemp is a paid speaker. Quit lying.

"Richard has undertaken successful speaking tours in the United States, Australia, South Africa and Europe,"

Colonel Richard Kemp CBE Military Speakers

 

[SAYIT]

If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you. Grow up. The guy is a tool. How about something from a neutral source. CBS.
U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News

That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say nothing about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.

Kemp makes good money for his speeches. I have substantiated that Kemp is a paid speaker. Quit lying. "Richard has undertaken successful speaking tours in the United States, Australia, South Africa and Europe,"

Colonel Richard Kemp CBE Military Speakers

You have proven neither that Col. Kemp was paid by Israel to testify before the UNHRC nor have you proven that his testimony was falsified. Stop lying.

 

[montelatici]

Of course, Col. Kemp travelled and made speeches for free. What a nutcase you are. All the other UNHCR said he was full of shit and the report stated as much. Run along you silly nutcase.

 

[toastman]

My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields. Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.

The Palestinians are defending themselves. There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.

"6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan

Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their hotel window. Furthermore, UNRWA was forced to admit (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.

Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...

Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.

Of course that's the only defence Monti has. He's not smart enough to produce a valid rebuttal, yet he runs around the forum saying he's smarter than everyone else.

 

[toastman]

Of course, Col. Kemp travelled and made speeches for free. What a nutcase you are. All the other UNHCR said he was full of shit and the report stated as much. Run along you silly nutcase.

Geez, your lack of rebuttal skills is making you very desperate LOL !

You got nothing, as usual.

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Well, I would say that I'm not so concerned about events of a century (100 years+) ago. We are not dealing with the events of a century ago.

You are a liar Rocco. And a propagandist. Watch "1913 Seeds of Conflict" aired for the first time last night on PBS. You will see why everything I have been writing is absolute fact.

(COMMENT)

We are dealing with today. No cause a 100 years old is justification for what HAMAS does today. You cannot use Human Shields today in support of a 100 year old complaint.

A century ago, the world and its leadership worked differently then today.

I do not react to unsubstantiated responds to my opinions that attack my personal character. I never intended to be misleading, inaccurate, or communicate a false idea.

V/R
R

We are not talking about an event that happened a long time ago. This is a process that continues to today. It is a current issue.

 

[toastman]

You are a liar Rocco. And a propagandist. Watch "1913 Seeds of Conflict" aired for the first time last night on PBS. You will see why everything I have been writing is absolute fact.

The biggest liar and propagandist on USMB calling someone else a liar and propagandist hahaha. Now THAT'S funny ! Oxymoron ....