Who Are The Palestinains?

[Phoenall]

i And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.

The Jews can't show any sovereignty over the territory for more than 2,000 years. There's the rub.

And the arab muslims can only show 21 years of sovereignty before getting kicked out, and it looks like they never will get any sovereignty of the land


Guess what child the Jews have held the land for longer than the arab muslims had, and it gets right up your nose.

 

[Lipush]

No, you keep repeating the same old propaganda that would make it appear that the Muslim and Christians, that had lived in Palestine for over 2,000 years had less right to the land than a bunch of settlers from Europe. Get stuffed.

Ha ha ha. Islam is only 1400 years old and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years. And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it. The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's. The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

 

[Lipush]

Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine? Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?

Where do you think all the European Jews came from genius?

Genius will tell you they're not real Jews, they're fake. The real Jews are the Moooooslems who speak Arabic and wave the Koran while trying to kill Jews and Christians.

 

[Lipush]

Sorry I can't rep you for that post, but....GENIUS!!!

 

[MJB12741]

Monte is so funny. Bless him for all the laughs he gives us. Heh Heh!

Ha ha ha. Islam is only 1400 years old and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years. And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it. The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's. The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

 

[MJB12741]

And here I never even knew that Muslims lived in the land FOR OVER 2000 YEARS.

Monte is so funny. Bless him for all the laughs he gives us. Heh Heh!

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

 

[P F Tinmore]

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741, et al,

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.

Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.

Dunno.

But I can tell you who the land owners are NOW...

Which is all that really matters, now...

(COMMENT)

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered. And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan. The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination). And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988. And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank. Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank. However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem (a separate trusteeship) by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City’s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of Al-Buraq (the Western Wall). Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital. East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

 

[Phoenall]

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741, et al,

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.

Dunno.

But I can tell you who the land owners are NOW...

Which is all that really matters, now...

(COMMENT)

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered. And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan. The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination). And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988. And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank. Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank. However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem (a separate trusteeship) by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City’s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of Al-Buraq (the Western Wall). Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital. East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereigntyafter forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.


So there we have it the land was never arab Palestinian so they cant claim statehood without the land owners express permission. This was done through the UN resolution 181 which the Palestinian arab muslims rejected out of hand.

Now how about the Jews rights to sovereignty in Palestine, after all they were the next largest ethnic group that lived there. Or are you rejecting their rights on the grounds that illegal arab muslim migrants wanted to steal their land and females . Not once have you shown any comprehension that the Palestinian Jews had just as much right to declare independence on the land they inhabited, care to explain why this is ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741, et al,

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.


(COMMENT)

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered. And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan. The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination). And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988. And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank. Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank. However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem (a separate trusteeship) by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City’s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of Al-Buraq (the Western Wall). Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital. East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereigntyafter forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.


So there we have it the land was never arab Palestinian so they cant claim statehood without the land owners express permission. This was done through the UN resolution 181 which the Palestinian arab muslims rejected out of hand.

Now how about the Jews rights to sovereignty in Palestine, after all they were the next largest ethnic group that lived there. Or are you rejecting their rights on the grounds that illegal arab muslim migrants wanted to steal their land and females . Not once have you shown any comprehension that the Palestinian Jews had just as much right to declare independence on the land they inhabited, care to explain why this is ?

Thank you.

exercised the de facto power of sovereignty

This de facto power of sovereignty

de facto...de facto

Imposed by military force.

Real sovereignty is not imposed.

 

[MJB12741]

The Palestinian rejection of UN resolution 181 made in unbinding whereby they lost big time. Not too bright, are they?

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741, et al,

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.


(COMMENT)

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered. And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan. The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination). And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988. And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank. Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank. However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem (a separate trusteeship) by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City&#146;s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of Al-Buraq (the Western Wall). Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital. East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereigntyafter forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.


So there we have it the land was never arab Palestinian so they cant claim statehood without the land owners express permission. This was done through the UN resolution 181 which the Palestinian arab muslims rejected out of hand.

Now how about the Jews rights to sovereignty in Palestine, after all they were the next largest ethnic group that lived there. Or are you rejecting their rights on the grounds that illegal arab muslim migrants wanted to steal their land and females . Not once have you shown any comprehension that the Palestinian Jews had just as much right to declare independence on the land they inhabited, care to explain why this is ?

 

[montelatici]

Ha ha ha. Islam is only 1400 years old and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years. And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it. The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's. The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.

Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.

 

[Kondor3]

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.

Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.

Try looking more closely at an objective analysis of DNA spot-checking within the centuries-old families of Old Palestine...

Genetic markers for Hebrew ancestry.

Generic markers for Canaanite ancestry.

Genetic markers for Egyptian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Greek ancestry.

Genetic markers for Persian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Assyrian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Samaritan ancestry.

Genetic markers for Byzantine-Thracian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Turkic ancestry.

Genetic markers for Ethiopian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Mongolian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Babylonian-Sumerian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Phoenician ancestry.

Genetic markers for European Crusader (Frankish, Anglo-Saxon, etc.) ancestry.

Genetic markers for Bedouin ancestry.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... in other words... Mutts.

Then look at the genetic markers for that segment of the population who are not members of centuries-old families of Old Palestine...

Strong genetic markers for Egyptian recent ancestry.

Strong genetic markers for Jordanian recent ancestry.

Strong genetic markers for Lebanese recent ancestry.

Strong genetic markers for Syrian recent ancestry.

Strong generic markers for Bedouin recent ancestry.

In other words, first- and second- and third-generation descendants of the large numbers of Muslims who flooded into Old Palestine since the late 19th Century A.D., looking for work, largely fueled by businesses and concerns created by Jewish immigrant farmers and merchants.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... in other words, Newcomers, with very little legitimate claim on the lands of Old Palestine, never mind what's left of Rump Palestine.

------------

And all that recited from memory, rather than bothering to find somebody else's words to copy.

An adequate level of understanding and objectivity on that subject matter, I trust, to avoid the appellation 'ignorant'.

 

[Lipush]

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.

Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.

No, they arent's.

They're clans who immigrated in mass numbers in the beginning of the 20st century, most of them.

Do some history checking yourself, dude.

 

[toastman]

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741, et al,

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.

Dunno.

But I can tell you who the land owners are NOW...

Which is all that really matters, now...

(COMMENT)

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered. And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan. The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination). And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988. And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank. Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank. However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem (a separate trusteeship) by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City’s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of Al-Buraq (the Western Wall). Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital. East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

Again with violations of peoples rights?? What rights were violated?

As for Roccos post, what did he say that you find incorrect? I read it and everything he posted seems to be truthful.

 

[jillian]

<snicker>

Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)

You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.

Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.

you just keep making up whatever you feel like, don't you?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741, et al,

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.


(COMMENT)

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered. And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the de facto power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war. This de facto power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan. The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination). And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988. And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank. Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank. However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem (a separate trusteeship) by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City’s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of Al-Buraq (the Western Wall). Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital. East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

Again with violations of peoples rights?? What rights were violated?

As for Roccos post, what did he say that you find incorrect? I read it and everything he posted seems to be truthful.

The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to independence.

The right to sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't equate "military control" with "sovereignty." That would be "occupation."

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

(COMMENT)

Here, you are talking about a "belligerent occupation."

The right to self determination without external interference.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Palestinians of the West Bank, with representation in the Jordanian Parliament, voted for annexation.

The right to independence.

(COMMENT)

Right, the PLO, the sole representative of the Palestinian, declared independence.

The right to sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians haven't been able to put this together yet. They have not pursued in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.

The right to territorial integrity.

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

Which one of these did you object to --- again.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to independence.

The right to sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.

You are absolutely correct.

They already have this.

It's called Jordan nowadays.

What are you still doing on Jewish land?

"What's your dirt doin' in Boss Hog's yard, Luke?"

 

[MJB12741]

OMG! Do you have some kind of death warrant for Palestinians? Just look what happened when Israel granted their demand for a Jew free Gaza without having Israel to suck off of any longer for their well being. Palestinians massacred Palestinians in record numbers. Give them a Palestinian State with self determination & they will commit self genocide on themselves.

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.

Again with violations of peoples rights?? What rights were violated?

As for Roccos post, what did he say that you find incorrect? I read it and everything he posted seems to be truthful.

The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to independence.

The right to sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't equate "military control" with "sovereignty." That would be "occupation."

You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

(COMMENT)

Here, you are talking about a "belligerent occupation."

Indeed, Palestine was born under belligerent occupation that continues today.

The right to self determination without external interference.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Palestinians of the West Bank, with representation in the Jordanian Parliament, voted for annexation.

There are a few things wrong with this assumption.

(COMMENT)

Right, the PLO, the sole representative of the Palestinian, declared independence.

OK, but Palestine is still occupied.

The right to sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians haven't been able to put this together yet. They have not pursued in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.

The occupied people must disarm while the occupying power keeps its military?

What kind of crap is that?

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​

The right to territorial integrity.

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

Which one of these did you object to --- again.

Again, what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?

Most Respectfully,
R