White Power

[Yurt]

would anyone have a problem if it were found out that mccain's church was founded on white power?

 

[Dogger]

would anyone have a problem if it were found out that mccain's church was founded on white power?

Foolish consistency, Yurt. Do you understand the principle of "differential responsibilities" in international relations, and how it might apply in this case?

 

[Yurt]

Foolish consistency, Yurt. Do you understand the principle of "differential responsibilities" in international relations, and how it might apply in this case?

answer the question and you're wrong

 

[Dogger]

yada, yada, yada , . . .

Look how angry and bitter conservatives are, and they have not suffered any of the indignities inflicted upon Black citizens. Now imagine yourself from the Black prespective.

 

[Yurt]

Look how angry and bitter conservatives are, and they have not suffered any of the indignities inflicted upon Black citizens. Now imagine yourself from the Black prespective.

how was my post angery and bitter? it wasn't. you are deflecting because you are scared. either answer the question, or admit you have a double standard for whites and blacks.

 

[BrianH]

Look how angry and bitter conservatives are, and they have not suffered any of the indignities inflicted upon Black citizens. Now imagine yourself from the Black prespective.

Generalization.......you should know better....

 

[BrianH]

would anyone have a problem if it were found out that mccain's church was founded on white power?

The kicker would be if the church were still preaching "white power." It's obvious that the UNited states was founded on "white power" also, consdering it allowed the enslavement of blacks until 1865...Among other numerous events in American history. In conclusion, I don't think it matters, unless the church is still preaching white power, and not allowing blacks or other races to join....

 

[Dogger]

yurt, yurt, yurt, yurt, . . .

I have a single standard, but not a foolishly consistent standard. I understand that the White Power crowd preaches hatred and bigotry, while the churches you regard as Black Power churches include not only those few that preach hatred and bigotry but those that seek an end to discrimination and redress for past bigotry.

 

[Yurt]

The kicker would be if the church were still preaching "white power." It's obvious that the UNited states was founded on "white power" also, consdering it allowed the enslavement of blacks until 1865...Among other numerous events in American history. In conclusion, I don't think it matters, unless the church is still preaching white power, and not allowing blacks or other races to join....

the church still espouses white power. what would your answer be? what if the church did allow others to join, but had a strong slant towards white power and white liberation theology? what if this was the church's motto:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly White and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the White religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an European people, and remain "true to our native land." God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of turmoil, the days of hardship, and the long night of troubles. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a White worship service and ministries which address the White Community.

would this motto trouble you? if this was john mccain's church, would that raise questions about mccain?

 

[CharlestonChad]

the church still espouses white power. what would your answer be? what if the church did allow others to join, but had a strong slant towards white power and white liberation theology? what if this was the church's motto:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly White and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the White religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an European people, and remain "true to our native land." God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of turmoil, the days of hardship, and the long night of troubles. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a White worship service and ministries which address the White Community.

would this motto trouble you? if this was john mccain's church, would that raise questions about mccain?

It would trouble me because as far as I know, there hasn't been a massive group of white people taken from Europe, sent to a foreign land and forced to adapt the religion, culture, and language of the new land occupied by many oppressive people who consider themselves superior because of their skin color.

 

[Dogger]

CharlestonChad -->

<-- Yurt

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It would trouble me because as far as I know, there hasn't been a massive group of white people taken from Europe, sent to a foreign land and forced to adapt the religion, culture, and language of the new land occupied by many oppressive people who consider themselves superior because of their skin color.

You might want to check that out, Irish for one were brought over in large numbers in slavery, ohh it was called other things but it was slavery. Other white groups as well. and they were treated as second class citizens as well even when not outright owned by somebody for servitude.

You guys really do not know your history at all. I blame the Liberals for the disaster that is our current Public Education.

You are aware that the Klu Klux Klan murdered and terrorized Jews, Irish and Catholics? Not just blacks?

 

[Dogger]

You might want to check that out, . . .

No, you might want to read that again carefully. The Irish were not mistreated because of their skin color, which is what Chad said. And the discrimination against white groups does not persist like it does for blacks.

As an American of Irish descent, I'm aware of the mistreatment of my ancestors as well as the mistreatment of blacks by my ancestors. There is simply no comparison.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, you might want to read that again carefully. The Irish were not mistreated because of their skin color, which is what Chad said. And the discrimination against white groups does not persist like it does for blacks.

As an American of Irish descent, I'm aware of the mistreatment of my ancestors as well as the mistreatment of blacks by my ancestors. There is simply no comparison.

Sure thing. You are aware that Blacks sold Blacks into slavery? That slavery was practiced in Africa long after the US outlawed it? By Blacks against blacks?

Sorry if your "white" guilt is to big a burden for you to understand reality. You would think you personally participated in Slavery or "oppression". Well actually as a liberal you are well aware of how to Oppress others.

 

[Gunny]

I have a single standard, but not a foolishly consistent standard. I understand that the White Power crowd preaches hatred and bigotry, while the churches you regard as Black Power churches include not only those few that preach hatred and bigotry but those that seek an end to discrimination and redress for past bigotry.

You call this consistent? From the base viewpoint your perceptions are biased. The term "black power" alone is bigotted by its exclusivity. Doesn't matter who you think they "allow" ... it is STILL an exclusive label.

And no, they do not seek and end to discrimination and redress for past bigotry. They seek to perpetuate the illusion of discrimination and demand redress in dollars as an entitlement for something most now have never legally suffered.

If being discriminated against alone is the standard, and not equality under law being the standard, where's the line form? I want mine.

Conversely, "white power" would be every bit as exclusive as "black power," but I notice you feel the need to interject the "hate" word only with the former. Hatred is no more nor less required for one that the other.

Interesting that you say you have the same standard when clearly obvious in your comment is the fact that you automatically apply virtue to one side and hate to the other.

 

[Dogger]

Conversely, "white power" would be every bit as exclusive as "black power," but I notice you feel the need to interject the "hate" word only with the former. Hatred is no more nor less required for one that the other.

Interesting that you say you have the same standard when clearly obvious in your comment is the fact that you automatically apply virtue to one side and hate to the other.

Read my comment again. I described Black Power churches to include "those few that preach hatred and bigotry". As Yurt used the term, it also included "those that seek an end to discrimination and redress for past bigotry."

I know of no White Power movement that seeks to redress past discrimination against whites or end discrimination against whites. I do know of those that sought to suppress equal rights for blacks.

As those terms were used by Yurt, the Black Power movement is a mix of good and bad purposes; the White Power movement pursues no good purpose.

 

[Gunny]

Read my comment again. I described Black Power churches to include "those few that preach hatred and bigotry". As Yurt used the term, it also included "those that seek an end to discrimination and redress for past bigotry."

I know of no White Power movement that seeks to redress past discrimination against whites or end discrimination against whites. I do know of those that sought to suppress equal rights for blacks.

As those terms were used by Yurt, the Black Power movement is a mix of good and bad purposes; the White Power movement pursues no good purpose.

Really? So you are saying whites are not discriminated against? Affirmative action most certainly is discrimination. Race/gender quotas in military officer promotions are most certainly discriminatory against whites. Those would be the legal ones right off the top of my head.

Then there is the societal discrimination as exemplified by people such as yourself. Default position for you is whites are guilty period while blacks are merely seeking redress of grievances.

If one is white, one needs to be ashamed on his/her skin color, but all other ethnicities are portrayed as "champions of their race/ethinicity" and just displaying pride in who and what they are.

The pat response for criticism of Obama is "racist." A racially discriminatory accusation attempting to silence critics with fear and/or a guilt trip.

The word means something. But not on this board and not in the media. It's been so overused it looks like a 25 years old draft nag. The impact is gone. It used to make one step back and take a second look at what was happening or being said. Now the default response to the accusation is "bullshit." What happens when you cry "wolf" to many times.

You don't know of anything good from "white power" because you, the media and everyone else immediately dismisses anything labelled as such as racist. The same standard should apply to all or none.

 

[Dogger]

I'm simply saying it's not simple, as yurt tried to portray it. Much of what you attribute to me merits no response.

Affirmative action has a proper role, but not if it's interpreted as quotas. Are there organized movements that address quota discrimination without going further? Please enlighten me.

 

[Gunny]

I'm simply saying it's not simple, as yurt tried to portray it. Much of what you attribute to me merits no response.

Affirmative action has a proper role, but not if it's interpreted as quotas. Are there organized movements that address quota discrimination without going further? Please enlighten me.

I have only attributed to you what you have stated in this thread. It was not my intent to portray your stance as anything other than it is.

I know of no organized movements that address quota discrimination. The example I gave you (the military) of promotion by race/gender quota I know of only because I saw it firsthand while "incarcerated" (an alleged "reward" duty station) at Headquarters, US Marine Corps.

There are no organized movements to protest anything within the US military that I am aware of. They are in fact unlawful and covered by terms such as "mutiny" and "inciting insurrection."

I have no other specific knowledge on the topic other than what I catch in the news so google would do a better job of enlightening you than I could.

 

[Yurt]

so black power is both good and bad...that's consistent. you take the good with the bad because you are biased. as Gunny said, it is exclusive, it seeks to elevate one race and not another. why is there a need for black power now? the law is actually tilted towards blacks. yet there is still some need after a half a century? this is appeasement.

why is it you cannot accept a color blind method of stopping past discrimination. MLK: children not judged based on the color of their skin, but the content of their character. no black power in that. as also mentioned, it was the black africans who practiced slavery before whites did and after whites did. but they are innocent, they are "family." as if white people alone were guilty. i hear all the time we should punish MORE the companies who hire illegals, as they are creating the desire for illegals to come here. as such, why is it that the blacks in africa get a pass?

those that saw the bad in black power actually left it for the civil rights movement. black power (wiki):

Black Power is a movement among Black people throughout the world, especially those in the United States. Most prominent in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the movement emphasized racial pride and the creation of black political and cultural institutions to nurture and promote black collective interests, advance black values, and secure black autonomy.

encarta notes:

The national media began to report on Black Power, which immediately drew condemnation from whites for its racially separatist message. Leaders of several black organizations, including the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), the National Urban League, and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) also denounced Black Power. As head of the SCLC, King, who many people viewed as the leader of blacks in the United States, voiced his disapproval of the threatening, antiwhite message often associated with Black Power. While encouraging blacks to be proud of their race and to appreciate their heritage, King advised them to “avoid the error of building a distrust for all white people.”

regardless of past discrimination, many blacks view black power as racist. those that support black power have no real understanding are simply trying to assuage some guilt for something that they did not do.

do you also support obama's church motto:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

and dogger, your little snide 'he got me' post is the perfect example of your idiotic childishness.