Which Side Are You On?

[citizenal]

How in all of creation is it possible for an American to support the establishment of and exclusionary religious state when this nation was founded upon the principles of the separation of church and state, freedom, and equal rights under the law? An add to this abomination the fact that we supported establishment of this religious state amidst other competing religious states which have fought the Western powers for over 600 years during the Crusades. It is the epitome of stupidity, insanity, and injustice and yet most Americans have no problem with this. Oh, I know, it’s all about stealing their oil. Personally, I do not know what it is all about, but I do know is that the creation of the state of Israel will stand as the greatest blunder in the history of human kind because in order to have and Israel, you must forgo freedom, justice, and the rule of law. Without this we are just beasts and animals.

 

[Old Rocks]

No matter how you slice it or cut it up, the bottom line is that Israel is the aggressor nation which wrongfully seized land that belonged to someone else. However, to really understand what is going on here, substitute Afrikaner for Israeli and Black for Palestinian and then think about which side you should be on.

Why can’t the Palestinians enjoy same rights as everyone else in the world? The reason is that this would mean that in Israel, the Palestinians would enjoy the same rights as the Israelis and to an Israeli, equal rights for anyone else under the law is anathema and repugnant. Why? All Jews claim the right of return and this means that the Jews of the world have a right to live in Palestine irrespective of whether they or their ancestors ever lived there or not. If Palestinians also enjoyed a right of return, then it would be incumbent upon the Israeli government to help them return to their homes in Israel, the only difference being that, in many cases, they would be returning to the homes which they formerly lived in and had been occupied by their families for generations; albeit homes or land now occupied by Israelis.

In conclusion, a right of return entails a winner and a loser. This being the case, there is no such right either in truth or in the eyes of God.

White europeans here in the US.

 

[citizenal]

[you have a very interesting take on history--------totally wrong, but interesting.

Were you educated in a madrassa?[/QUOTE]

No, I was educated in the school of hard knocks. Somehow being treated unfairly made me think that treating people unfairly was wrong.

 

[citizenal]

White europeans here in the US.

True, the Indians got a lousy deal from us also, but I wasn't around then to defend them on a message board. Let me see, what's that old saying? Something about two wrongs..... Oh, what the hell, you know what I mean.

 

[Ringel05]

No matter how you slice it or cut it up, the bottom line is that Israel is the aggressor nation which wrongfully seized land that belonged to someone else. However, to really understand what is going on here, substitute Afrikaner for Israeli and Black for Palestinian and then think about which side you should be on.

Why can’t the Palestinians enjoy same rights as everyone else in the world? The reason is that this would mean that in Israel, the Palestinians would enjoy the same rights as the Israelis and to an Israeli, equal rights for anyone else under the law is anathema and repugnant. Why? All Jews claim the right of return and this means that the Jews of the world have a right to live in Palestine irrespective of whether they or their ancestors ever lived there or not. If Palestinians also enjoyed a right of return, then it would be incumbent upon the Israeli government to help them return to their homes in Israel, the only difference being that, in many cases, they would be returning to the homes which they formerly lived in and had been occupied by their families for generations; albeit homes or land now occupied by Israelis.

In conclusion, a right of return entails a winner and a loser. This being the case, there is no such right either in truth or in the eyes of God.

I'll put it plainly. Your interpretation of events leading up to this current conflict is based on half truths and outright lies, a onesided interpretation presented as propaganda by those opposed to Israel. In other words, (to apply the crass), you're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

 

[healthmyths]

Dear Healthmyths:

Any one of us can very easily list a plethora of wrongs and atrocities committed by both sides of this conflict. To what purpose; as in all wars, to demonize the other side so people will feel comfortable with destruction, slaughter and murder. The only rational way to decide this issue is as it is with all issues; logically, rationally, and in keeping with the sound principles of justice and fair play. All your one-sided rhetoric does is contribute to the continuation of the conflict and ensure that war is a permanent condition for humankind.

So it was OK for Hamas to use the $$ sent by US and other countries for humane purposes to build tunnels to infiltrate Israel?
It was OK for Hamas to refuse their people to use the tunnels for shelter?
It was OK for teachers to indoctrinate with hatred for Jews?

Furthermore, why must Israel give land to Palestinians when Jordon/Syria,et.al. why can't they provide the land?
after all the Israel right supersedes historically anyone.

In 1947, the UN proposed what appeared to be a logical solution—partitioning the land between the two peoples.
The mufti of Jerusalem, the spokesman for the Palestinian Arabs, rejected it.
The Jewish immigrants, at the time, accepted the idea.
Under the leadership of David Ben Gurion, Israel declared itself a state on May 14, 1948. In spite of superior numbers, the Palestinian Arabs fled from the Israelis, counting on their Arab brothers to crush the upstart nation and return Palestine to their control.
Palestine Israel Whose Land Is It, Really - World News and Prophecy | United Church of God

If you are a UN supporter then why are you supporting Hamas?
If you are a agnostic, intellectual with no religious bias when then support the theologically driven "kill the infidels" Hamas?

Finally which group do you think has an interest in converting you to their theology and if you don't they justify killing the "infidel" by their
religious beliefs?
Which side wants to keep you if you are a woman covered,walking behind the man and not drive?
I really don't understand the question of sides but more important question what do you want:
A) live without religious dictates totally controlling your life?
B) live with constructive attitude versus a destructive attitude?

That should be your question not which "side" because so far I've seen the right side that wants me to make my own religious decisions.
The side that doesn't teach kids to hate people.
That is the side I'm on...

 

[PredFan]

I stand on the side of the Israelis and against the murdering terrorists called Hamas.

I stand for fairness, justice, equal rights under the law, and peace. These are values which should be subscribed to by all Americans who are not American in name only. By siding with Israel you are forgoing these ends and principles. This raises the question, how can a person could hold dual citizen between America and Israel when one country exemplifies equal rights under the law and freedom and the other nation only offers these inalienable rights to Jews. Maybe you can explain this to me?

P.S. I am no fan of Hamas either.

Wrong in every important respect.

 

[SAYIT]

How in all of creation is it possible for an American to support the establishment of and exclusionary religious state when this nation was founded upon the principles of the separation of church and state, freedom, and equal rights under the law? An add to this abomination the fact that we supported establishment of this religious state amidst other competing religious states which have fought the Western powers for over 600 years during the Crusades. It is the epitome of stupidity, insanity, and injustice and yet most Americans have no problem with this. Oh, I know, it’s all about stealing their oil. Personally, I do not know what it is all about, but I do know is that the creation of the state of Israel will stand as the greatest blunder in the history of human kind because in order to have and Israel, you must forgo freedom, justice, and the rule of law. Without this we are just beasts and animals.

Please tell me again how that rant isn't the "one-sided rhetoric" you complained about an hour ago. It seems you believe only you are entitled to an opinion yet your obvious purpose here is to "contribute to the continuation of the conflict and ensure that war is a permanent condition for humankind." Ring a bell?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Which Side Are You On?

A plague on both their houses.

 

[Ravi]

The Jews have been in the area of Israel for several thousand years, the Muslims, not so much....

True! And they lived peacefully beside the Arabs for most of those thousands of years. This was true because the indigent Jews had much in common with the Arabs. However, it wasn't until the establishment of the state of Israel that the Jews decided to make the Arabs second class citizens in the land of their forefathers. How would you feel under these circumstances? Is this what the United States America is all about; defending injustice?

Spoils of war say Israel is in the right.

Or would you condone American Indians using terrorist tactics against the USA?

 

[PoliticalChic]

No matter how you slice it or cut it up, the bottom line is that Israel is the aggressor nation which wrongfully seized land that belonged to someone else. However, to really understand what is going on here, substitute Afrikaner for Israeli and Black for Palestinian and then think about which side you should be on.

Why can’t the Palestinians enjoy same rights as everyone else in the world? The reason is that this would mean that in Israel, the Palestinians would enjoy the same rights as the Israelis and to an Israeli, equal rights for anyone else under the law is anathema and repugnant. Why? All Jews claim the right of return and this means that the Jews of the world have a right to live in Palestine irrespective of whether they or their ancestors ever lived there or not. If Palestinians also enjoyed a right of return, then it would be incumbent upon the Israeli government to help them return to their homes in Israel, the only difference being that, in many cases, they would be returning to the homes which they formerly lived in and had been occupied by their families for generations; albeit homes or land now occupied by Israelis.

In conclusion, a right of return entails a winner and a loser. This being the case, there is no such right either in truth or in the eyes of God.

"An autonomous Palestinian political identity did not begin to assert itself until the mid-1960s. In the 1950s, no political organization existed around which a specifically Palestinian identity could be articulated.

Pan-Arabism was a dominant mode of political expression, and the Hashimite regime strongly promoted Jordanian sovereignty over Palestinian affairs and identity."
Jordan - Palestinians

 

[Redfish]

[you have a very interesting take on history--------totally wrong, but interesting.

Were you educated in a madrassa?

No, I was educated in the school of hard knocks. Somehow being treated unfairly made me think that treating people unfairly was wrong.[/QUOTE]







Lets see now, Unfair treatment.

would that include mass executions, being considered less than human, being rounded up and gassed?

As to the current conflict. Israel did not start it, Israel does not call for the destruction of all muslim countries, israel does not call for the elimination of all muslims and christians, Israel is defending itself from constant attacks from its religious enemies which surround it.

Israel does not put its missile launchers in schools and hospitals, israel does not send its children to die as suicide bombers.

Radical islam is the cause of this conflict. Until everyone deals with that truth, there will be no end to the useless dying.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Israel wants all of the Holy Land, which doesn't belong to them, just like the land they are already squatting on. That is the root of the conflict, two people, one land. There's no way to make peace without a slaughter on that...

 

[SAYIT]

The Jews have been in the area of Israel for several thousand years, the Muslims, not so much....

True! And they lived peacefully beside the Arabs for most of those thousands of years. This was true because the indigent Jews had much in common with the Arabs. However, it wasn't until the establishment of the state of Israel that the Jews decided to make the Arabs second class citizens in the land of their forefathers. How would you feel under these circumstances? Is this what the United States America is all about; defending injustice?

Spoils of war say Israel is in the right.

Or would you condone American Indians using terrorist tactics against the USA?

Or Mexican "freedom fighters" conducting a guerilla war against our Southwestern states?
Imagine our response.

 

[citizenal]

I often hear that from the anti-Israel choir: "I am no fan of Hamas, but..."

It a shame you never read beyond the “but…” because it is there to imply that both side of the conflict are responsible for the worst crimes against humanity. Because you miss this point, you end up with a list of everything bad Hamas did and nothing bad that the Israelis did. This is unfair! Both Hamas and Israel are guilty of fighting the most despicable kind of warfare known to man. However, in all fairness, I would tend to agree that Hamas is guilty of the very worst abominations. However, the Arabs are desperate because it is impossible to fight the armed might of Israel fully backed and supported by the American military diplomatic machine. Does desperation justify the uglier and more inhuman tactics? Who I am I to Judge?

All I know is that two things are necessary to end a war; a cessation of fighting and a reconciliation of the grievances held by both warring factions. You want none of these two solutions and instead point to all the nasty and vile things Hamas has done and conclude that they justify the destruction and any Arab capable of holding a gun. I guess according the new and revised rules of war, genocide is now an acceptable objective of modern warfare.

 

[citizenal]

And your one-sided rhetoric does what? Make you feel good?

Excuse me, but as I look around, I am the only person standing in the middle hoping that somehow the world and most Americans will come to their senses........and you categorize this as "one-sided rhetoric". I am a flabbergasted and have no clue as to what to say to you.....Oops, something did come to mind. Before invading Iraq on a lie, George Bush said if you are not with us you are against us. Therefore, according to this demented form of logic, because I am not with them, I am against them and because I am against them, my rhetoric has to be one sided.

MAN, the whole thing is making more sense to me. My side good, your side bad, no matter how bad my side is or how good your side is.

 

[eagle7_31]

Which Side Are You On?

I stand with Israel

We all make mistakes.

Israel using human shields? Oops no that is Hamas. Convert to Islam or die? oops that is Isis.

Fine bunch of friends you have.

 

[citizenal]

How in all of creation is it possible for an American to support the establishment of and exclusionary religious state when this nation was founded upon the principles of the separation of church and state, freedom, and equal rights under the law? An add to this abomination the fact that we supported establishment of this religious state amidst other competing religious states which have fought the Western powers for over 600 years during the Crusades. It is the epitome of stupidity, insanity, and injustice and yet most Americans have no problem with this. Oh, I know, it’s all about stealing their oil. Personally, I do not know what it is all about, but I do know is that the creation of the state of Israel will stand as the greatest blunder in the history of human kind because in order to have and Israel, you must forgo freedom, justice, and the rule of law. Without this we are just beasts and animals.

Please tell me again how that rant isn't the "one-sided rhetoric" you complained about an hour ago. It seems you believe only you are entitled to an opinion yet your obvious purpose here is to "contribute to the continuation of the conflict and ensure that war is a permanent condition for humankind." Ring a bell?

I'll tell you how and hopefully you will pay attention. I am not picking sides in the conflict. Instead what am doing is bringing to the fore the principle as play in this situation, then I apply this principles to the facts of the situation and finally identify the consequences associated with the way things stand now. This is not choosing sides. Instead, it is letting the chips fly where they may. Unfortunately, most the chips fly toward Israel be this nation has no reasonable, legal, or moral argument to support what they have done and are doing now. Point of fact, if Israel wins, humanity loses because we now have made legal what was done illegally. No man is an island and we are all in this together. And whatever accomplishes illegally now, will be acceptable behavior in the future. As Americans, you and I cannot stand by and allow Israel to the turn Palestinian people into the next group of second class human beings. If we do, we are just as culpable of the plantation owners in the ante-bellum South and the Afrikaners in South Africa.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Jews have been in the area of Israel for several thousand years, the Muslims, not so much....

True! And they lived peacefully beside the Arabs for most of those thousands of years. This was true because the indigent Jews had much in common with the Arabs. However, it wasn't until the establishment of the state of Israel that the Jews decided to make the Arabs second class citizens in the land of their forefathers. How would you feel under these circumstances? Is this what the United States America is all about; defending injustice?

You're not very familiar with history at you?

The Israelites had countless battles with their neighbors for most of Israel's existence.

Also Arabs lived in Arabia until the 8th century ad. It was only when Islam started it's expansion that you find them outside of Arabia.

So yeah I stand with Israel. Especially since it's Jordan is occupying Palestinian lands

 

[9thIDdoc]

Actually, at this point I would side with anyone against a muslim for any reason.