Debate Now Where is the proof to impeach Trump?

[task0778]

To respond to Mulvaney's briefing where he talked about holding back aid to Ukraine. It's kinda long but offers some insight into what was going on at the time:

Reporter (M): (19:07)
Can you clarify, and I’ve been trying to get an answer to this. Was the president serious when he said that he would also like to see China investigate the Bidens? And you were directly involved in the decision to withhold funding from Ukraine. Can you explain to us now definitively why? Why was funding withheld?

Mick Mulvaney: (19:31)
Sure. Let’s deal with the second one first, which is, look, it should come as no surprise to anybody. The last time I was up here … I haven’t done this since I was chief of staff. Right? Last time I was up here, some of you folks remember it was for the budget briefings. Right? And one of the questions you all always ask me about the budget is what are you all doing to the foreign aid budget? Because we absolutely gutted it. President Trump is not a big fan of foreign aid. Never has been. Still isn’t. Doesn’t like spending money overseas, especially when it’s poorly spent. And that is exactly what drove this decision. I’ve been in the office a couple times with him talking about this and he said, “Look Mick, this is a corrupt place.” Everybody knows it’s a corrupt place.

Mick Mulvaney: (20:12)
By the way, put this in context. This is on the heels of what happened in Puerto Rico when we took a lot of heat for not wanting to give a bunch of aid to Puerto Rico because we thought that place was corrupt. And by the way it turns out we were right. All right. So put that as your context. He’s like, “Look, this is a corrupt place. I don’t want to send them a bunch of money and have them waste it, have them spend it, have them use it to line their own pockets.” Plus I’m not sure that the other European countries are helping them out either. So we actually looked at that during that time before. When we cut the money off, before the money actually flowed, because the money flowed by the end of the fiscal year, we actually did an analysis of what other countries were doing in terms of supporting Ukraine. And what we found out was that, and I can’t remember if it’s zero or near zero dollars from any European countries for lethal aid. You’ve heard the president say this, that we give them tanks and the other countries give them pillows. That’s absolutely right that as vocal as the Europeans are about supporting Ukraine, they are really, really stingy when it comes to lethal aid. And they weren’t helping Ukraine and still to this day are not.

Mick Mulvaney: (21:09)
And the president did not like that. I know [inaudible 0011] long answer your question, but I’m still going. So those were the driving factors. Did he also mention to me in the past, the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that. But that’s it. And that’s why we held up the money.
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Reporter (M): (21:27)
So the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he ordered to withhold funding to Ukraine?

Mick Mulvaney: (21:34)
The look back to what happened in 2016 certainly was part of the thing that he was worried about in corruption with that nation. And that is absolutely appropriate.

Reporter (M): (21:42)
Withholding the funding?

Mick Mulvaney: (21:43)
Yeah. Which ultimately then flowed. By the way, there was a report that we were worried that if we didn’t pay out the money, it would be illegal. Okay. It would be unlawful. That is one of those things that has that little shred of truth in it that makes it look a lot worse than it really is. We were concerned about over at OMB about an impoundment, and I know I’ve just put half of you folks to bed, but Budget Control Impoundment Act of 1974 says if Congress appropriates money, you have to spend it. Okay. At least that’s how it’s interpreted by some folks. And we knew that that money either had to go out the door by the end of September or we had to have a really, really good reason not to do it. And that was the legality of the issue.

Reporter (M): (22:25)
But to be clear, what you just described is a quid pro quo. It is funding will not flow unless the investigation into into the Democratic server happened as well.

Mick Mulvaney: (22:35)
We do that all the time with foreign policy. We were holding up money at the same time for what was it? The Northern triangle countries. We were holding up aid at the Northern triangle countries so that they would change their policies on immigration. By the way, and this speaks to an important … I’m sorry? This speaks to important point because I heard this yesterday and I can never remember the gentleman who … Was it McKinney? Is that his name? I don’t know him. He testified yesterday. And if you go and if you believe the news reports, because we’ve not seen any transcripts of this. The only transcript I’ve seen was Sondland’s testimony this morning.

Mick Mulvaney: (23:08)
If you read the news reports and you believe them, what did McKinney say yesterday? Well, McKinney said yesterday that he was really upset with the political influence in foreign policy. That was one of the reasons he was so upset about this. And I have news for everybody. Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.

Mick Mulvaney Briefing Transcript: "Get Over It" Regarding Ukraine Quid Pro Quo - Rev

So, was the president right to want the Ukrainians to investigate the Bidens and the DNC server thing? I don't see why not. Mulvaney is saying that it was quid pro quo but not for personal benefit. At least that's my read on it. And he goes on to say that political influence in foreign policy happens quite a bit. Not uncommon.

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Reporter (F): (25:30)
No. No. On the call the president did ask about investigating the Bidens. Are you saying that the money that was held up, that that had nothing to do with the Bidens?

Mick Mulvaney: (25:40)
No. The money held up had absolutely nothing to do with Biden. There’s no question. That was the point I made to you.
Mick Mulvaney Briefing Transcript: "Get Over It" Regarding Ukraine Quid Pro Quo - Rev

Clarification.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So, I'm asking anyone who believes Trump to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt: WHY? Based on what?

Mulvaney's admission on TV, for one example, Sondland's testimony, 'Everyone was in the loop'. You are depending on unreasonable doubt.

Sondland changed his story....Everything he says is now GIGO.

Mulvaney said he got his information from Sondland.

 

[Billy_Bob]

So, I'm asking anyone who believes Trump to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt: WHY? Based on what?

Mulvaney's admission on TV, for one example, Sondland's testimony, 'Everyone was in the loop'. You are depending on unreasonable doubt.

Sondland changed his story....Everything he says is now GIGO.

Mulvaney said he got his information from Sondland.

Who flat admitted, under oath, that he ASSUMED this was the case and had no evidence to back up his assumptions.

 

[Zorro!]

They have never had proof of any statutory crime. Trump's "crime" was getting elected and these folks think they have a veto over the US Electorate.

This Impeachment is just a continuation of their refusal to accept that they lost the 2016 election. It was never explained in a reasonable manner why Pelosi delayed sending the articles to the Senate. There is no real explanation for why she has changed her mind now. The delay of several weeks shows a loss of both momentum and any remaining perception of seriousness.

Mitch McConnell stands tall, proud and unintimidated by her attempts to arrogate Senate authority that the Constitution does not grant her. The Senate process will begin, like the Clinton impeachment of 1999, with both sides presenting their cases, followed by debate among senators. Only then would a decision be made as to whether and how to call witnesses. There is nothing any witness can say about President Trump’s dealings with Ukraine that would raise plausible grounds for impeachment. We know everything we need to know by reading the transcripts of the president’s two conversations with President Zelensky.

If there was any pressure at all on Ukraine to investigate the corrupt relationship between Burisma and the Bidens–it was very light, and the this encouragement is good, not bad. Corruption in the Obama-Biden administration should be investigated. Burisma’s multi-million dollar bribe to Joe Biden, through his son Hunter–millions, for influence with Hunter–is a classic example of the Swamp against which Trump ran for president. Joe Biden shouldn’t be allowed to get away with corruption at this level, even though the prospect of a criminal prosecution is probably remote.

The US Senate needs to denounce the impeachment proceeding as the partisan charade that it is, and then dismiss it as soon as possible.

The Democrats had no agenda other than removing Trump. Having failed at this, they have accomplished nothing for the American People, other than more clearly reveal how deranged they are, which is a service to some extent.

On To the Senate