Where is Mass Transit Headed?

[DGS49]

Transit Funding Crisis Unfolds in Pennsylvania - The American Prospect

How the Keystone State handles a shortfall in Philadelphia could prove decisive for urban mass transit.

prospect.org

I hate to use the expression "Perfect Storm" again - it's becoming trite these days, but U.S. mass transit is facing a "perfect storm" of ridership erosion, funding shortfalls, and its own unsustainable cost. The solutions would require drastic changes that are seemingly impossible in the society that we now have.

Those of us who pay attention know that Mass Transit CANNOT be self-supporting (through fares) and has to be subsidized by the taxpayers, most of whom do not have access to MT or don't want to use it for very rational reasons (doesn't fit work schedule, parking issues, etc.). So there really is no tenable answer to the farmer in Potter County, PA, who resents his tax dollars going to SEPTA and Pittsburgh Regional Transit. That's just life. We taxpayers pay for a lot of shit that we will never use.

But now, with the Pandemic having rendered MT almost pointless to those former passengers who now work remotely, we have MT agencies around the country that are literally facing bankruptcy, even with State, Federal, and local support. In my own area north of Pittsburgh, I see massive 50-passenger buses riding around with one or two (or zero) passengers, knowing that for THOSE few people the bus is a lifeline that makes it possible for them to work.

And no offense to anyone in particular, but MT agencies are notoriously expensive, wasteful, and unreliable. Essentially all of them are dominated by public sector unions that have extorted the riding public for generous wages and working conditions, expensive comprehensive benefits, and cushy, early retirement plans that they pad with massive overtime during their last few years of employment (when the retirement stipend is calculated).

Truly, they are made-to-order for a "traditional" bankruptcy, where employment/union contracts are torn up and replaced with rational arrangements carved out by objective Bankruptcy trustees.

I envision most of those massive buses being replaced by 10-12 passenger buses and an army of Uber (or comparable) drivers - independent contractors, not employees - who would service riders in outlying areas on an as-needed basis. Riders would pay a fixed fare of two bucks or so per ride, or a monthly pass at a suitable rate. **** Seniors and Vets; everyone pays the same amount.

Unfortunately, my pipe dream is further out of reach than it should be, as virtually all of the big MT agencies in the country are in Democrat-dominated jurisdictions, and those pols have been supported massively by the very unions and employees who would cry the loudest if any of this came to pass - so it won't.

Any other suggestions to save Mass Transit? We actually do need it, after all.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Transit Funding Crisis Unfolds in Pennsylvania - The American Prospect

How the Keystone State handles a shortfall in Philadelphia could prove decisive for urban mass transit.

prospect.org

I hate to use the expression "Perfect Storm" again - it's becoming trite these days, but U.S. mass transit is facing a "perfect storm" of ridership erosion, funding shortfalls, and its own unsustainable cost. The solutions would require drastic changes that are seemingly impossible in the society that we now have.

Those of us who pay attention know that Mass Transit CANNOT be self-supporting (through fares) and has to be subsidized by the taxpayers, most of whom do not have access to MT or don't want to use it for very rational reasons (doesn't fit work schedule, parking issues, etc.). So there really is no tenable answer to the farmer in Potter County, PA, who resents his tax dollars going to SEPTA and Pittsburgh Regional Transit. That's just life. We taxpayers pay for a lot of shit that we will never use.

But now, with the Pandemic having rendered MT almost pointless to those former passengers who now work remotely, we have MT agencies around the country that are literally facing bankruptcy, even with State, Federal, and local support. In my own area north of Pittsburgh, I see massive 50-passenger buses riding around with one or two (or zero) passengers, knowing that for THOSE few people the bus is a lifeline that makes it possible for them to work.

And no offense to anyone in particular, but MT agencies are notoriously expensive, wasteful, and unreliable. Essentially all of them are dominated by public sector unions that have extorted the riding public for generous wages and working conditions, expensive comprehensive benefits, and cushy, early retirement plans that they pad with massive overtime during their last few years of employment (when the retirement stipend is calculated).

Truly, they are made-to-order for a "traditional" bankruptcy, where employment/union contracts are torn up and replaced with rational arrangements carved out by objective Bankruptcy trustees.

I envision most of those massive buses being replaced by 10-12 passenger buses and an army of Uber (or comparable) drivers - independent contractors, not employees - who would service riders in outlying areas on an as-needed basis. Riders would pay a fixed fare of two bucks or so per ride, or a monthly pass at a suitable rate. **** Seniors and Vets; everyone pays the same amount.

Unfortunately, my pipe dream is further out of reach than it should be, as virtually all of the big MT agencies in the country are in Democrat-dominated jurisdictions, and those pols have been supported massively by the very unions and employees who would cry the loudest if any of this came to pass - so it won't.

Any other suggestions to save Mass Transit? We actually do need it, after all.

Here in Twin Falls, we just implemented a Transit service, as the Feds mandate one once the population goes over 50,000.
The county and the city got together and decided on an 'on-call' system where passenger vans would respond to texts--responding, as needed, to planned out stops--St. Luke's Hospital, for example or City Park.
After a few months, the 'route' was tweaked as a result of data gathered.
City also has a contract with a private carrier for handicapped folks...wheelchair accessible busses.

This is serving our needs adequately.

Biggest gain is that the service has 4am runs to all the major factories..Chobani, Agropur, Clifbar, etc.--people can get to work--and maybe buy a car eh?

Biggest loss...yeah, the system operates at a loss--and probably always will.

How this would translate to a big city I know not--but it is clear that if you want a public transportation system...that works....the working people are going to foot the bill.

Quite frankly--I would either abolish the public transpo..or abolish the fares and acknowledge that it is a service that Govt. and Business must pay for.

 

[1srelluc]

If workers need a train to be able to get to their work then the businesses that hire such workers need to foot the bulk of the bill.....Either that or build their workers big-ass parking garages.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Hopefully the California high speed rail isn't on the agenda

 

[Cassandro]

The future of mass transportation is autonomous pods carrying 1-4 people which can attach to other pods for longer distance high speed travel. Elon Musk already suggested this for the California Project, but it was disregarded for being too efficient.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The future of mass transportation is autonomous pods carrying 1-4 people which can attach to other pods for longer distance high speed travel. Elon Musk already suggested this for the California Project, but it was disregarded for being too efficient.

Elon Musk’s vision for rapid transit in California centered around the Hyperloop, a high-speed transport concept he introduced in August 2013. Here's a breakdown of the proposal and why it was ultimately rejected—or, more accurately, never advanced:

---

What Musk Proposed​

• Hyperloop system: Passenger pods would glide through reduced-pressure (near-vacuum) tubes via magnetic levitation and air bearings, targeting speeds up to ~700 mph to connect Los Angeles and the Bay Area in about 30 minutes Wikipedia+15Wikipedia+15The Washington Post+15.
• Route: He envisioned following the Interstate-5 corridor, theoretically reducing the need for land acquisition by building elevated pylons alongside the highway The Atlantic+1Wikipedia+1.
• Pitching points: Musk argued it would be faster, cheaper, earth‑quake resistant, solar‑powered, and superior to California's planned high-speed rail The New Yorker+1Los Angeles Times+1.

---

Why It Was Shot Down (and Never Made It to Groundbreaking)​

1. Unrealistic cost and technical assumptions
   
   • His radical $6–$10 billion cost estimate was widely regarded as implausible given the enormous tunneling, right‑of‑way, vacuum, and safety infrastructure required WIRED+10Los Angeles Times+10Wikipedia+10Reddit+5The Atlantic+5Wikipedia+5.
   • Experts warned of massive challenges: maintaining near-vacuum along hundreds of miles, connecting endpoints into downtown cores, and handling vibrations, security, and maintenance .

Musk's own admission

• He later told biographer Ashlee Vance that Hyperloop was intended “to distract state elected officials … with any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled” Wikipedia+7Reddit+7Reddit+7amp.fresnobee.com+5San Francisco Chronicle+5The Verge+5.
• Musk clarified he never planned to build it himself, stating, “down the road, I might fund or advise … but right now I can't take my eye off the ball at either SpaceX or Tesla” Reddit+2Reddit+2Reddit+2.

 

[Independent thinker]

Transit Funding Crisis Unfolds in Pennsylvania - The American Prospect

How the Keystone State handles a shortfall in Philadelphia could prove decisive for urban mass transit.

prospect.org

I hate to use the expression "Perfect Storm" again - it's becoming trite these days, but U.S. mass transit is facing a "perfect storm" of ridership erosion, funding shortfalls, and its own unsustainable cost. The solutions would require drastic changes that are seemingly impossible in the society that we now have.

Those of us who pay attention know that Mass Transit CANNOT be self-supporting (through fares) and has to be subsidized by the taxpayers, most of whom do not have access to MT or don't want to use it for very rational reasons (doesn't fit work schedule, parking issues, etc.). So there really is no tenable answer to the farmer in Potter County, PA, who resents his tax dollars going to SEPTA and Pittsburgh Regional Transit. That's just life. We taxpayers pay for a lot of shit that we will never use.

But now, with the Pandemic having rendered MT almost pointless to those former passengers who now work remotely, we have MT agencies around the country that are literally facing bankruptcy, even with State, Federal, and local support. In my own area north of Pittsburgh, I see massive 50-passenger buses riding around with one or two (or zero) passengers, knowing that for THOSE few people the bus is a lifeline that makes it possible for them to work.

And no offense to anyone in particular, but MT agencies are notoriously expensive, wasteful, and unreliable. Essentially all of them are dominated by public sector unions that have extorted the riding public for generous wages and working conditions, expensive comprehensive benefits, and cushy, early retirement plans that they pad with massive overtime during their last few years of employment (when the retirement stipend is calculated).

Truly, they are made-to-order for a "traditional" bankruptcy, where employment/union contracts are torn up and replaced with rational arrangements carved out by objective Bankruptcy trustees.

I envision most of those massive buses being replaced by 10-12 passenger buses and an army of Uber (or comparable) drivers - independent contractors, not employees - who would service riders in outlying areas on an as-needed basis. Riders would pay a fixed fare of two bucks or so per ride, or a monthly pass at a suitable rate. **** Seniors and Vets; everyone pays the same amount.

Unfortunately, my pipe dream is further out of reach than it should be, as virtually all of the big MT agencies in the country are in Democrat-dominated jurisdictions, and those pols have been supported massively by the very unions and employees who would cry the loudest if any of this came to pass - so it won't.

Any other suggestions to save Mass Transit? We actually do need it, after all.

Mass transit is social injustice. While the richer can afford cars, gas, insurance, etc. the left build mass transit in order to keep the poor in generational poverty and the votes coming in for the D party.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Tax the people who rely on it.

 

[DGS49]

As I tried to say above, mass transit is a necessity for many working class people and it MUST be subsidized. It will never be self sustaining.

Unions are the problem. Once the workforce is unionized the public is fucked.

 

[Paddlefoot]

MSN

A 42-year-old man in Oklahoma has been arrested after he allegedly slashed the throat of a woman riding a city bus in Tulsa in what has been described by authorities as an unprovoked attack.

Robert J. Rhoades was taken into custody over the weekend and charged with one count of assault with a deadly weapon and one count of false impersonation, authorities announced.

 

[my2¢]

Seems a bit unfair to isolate the cost of public transportation and neglect the government's cost in support of private transportation.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Seems a bit unfair to isolate the cost of public transportation and neglect the government's cost in support of private transportation.

I already pay taxes, license, and registration for my private transportation. I have not used public transportation except for one streetcar trip in New Orleans in the past 30 years. That was on vacation last year and I paid for that trip.