Where does Abraham Lincoln rank?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Several people were listing Lincoln toward the bottom of the list and I would like to hear their reasoning.

i'd rank him first.

i'm figuring the people who rank him toward or at the bottom are still ticked off that the south lost the war.

what do you think?

I think they don't like strong American leaders that do everything in their power to defend the US and the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

So Lincoln had to abandon the Constitution, to save the Constitution?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Lincoln was a savvy politician who knew what needed to be said to be elected. His actions spoke louder than words.

He was elected as an abolitionist President, and the South knew he was a foe of the slaveholders.

As for your Grant quote, it's false. Concocted.

Pulling a quote out to 'prove' something so complex shows how simple your mind works.

haha. the civil war was about the 10th amendment. not slavery. it IS simple.

Ever read the Secessionist documents?

I'm thinking you haven't.

Here, have a gander.

South Carolina Declarations of Causes of Seceding States American Civil War
Mississippi Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War
Texas Declarations of Causes of Seceding States

Take a few moments to skim though that. If you're too lazy, maybe you could do a Control ^F and enter "slavery" in the box.

Tell me how many times you see it.

The reasons the south left the Union and the reasons for the Civil War are not the same thing.

 

[JWBooth]

haha. the civil war was about the 10th amendment. not slavery. it IS simple.

Ever read the Secessionist documents?

I'm thinking you haven't.

Here, have a gander.

South Carolina Declarations of Causes of Seceding States American Civil War
Mississippi Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War
Texas Declarations of Causes of Seceding States

Take a few moments to skim though that. If you're too lazy, maybe you could do a Control ^F and enter "slavery" in the box.

Tell me how many times you see it.

The reasons the south left the Union and the reasons for the Civil War are not the same thing.

Wait for it.....wait for it....gratuitous Cornerstone speech strawman in
3...2....1....

 

[paperview]

haha. the civil war was about the 10th amendment. not slavery. it IS simple.

Ever read the Secessionist documents?

I'm thinking you haven't.

Here, have a gander.

South Carolina Declarations of Causes of Seceding States American Civil War
Mississippi Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War
Texas Declarations of Causes of Seceding States

Take a few moments to skim though that. If you're too lazy, maybe you could do a Control ^F and enter "slavery" in the box.

Tell me how many times you see it.

The reasons the south left the Union and the reasons for the Civil War are not the same thing.

They are however, intermingled.

 

[DiamondDave]

I don't rank him anywhere near the bottom... but not at the tip top either.. I think there is an overranking because of the tragedy of the assassination.. he did a lot of good, but did some stuff not so great as well.. and gets credit for some things he really did not do...

 

[paperview]

Ever read the Secessionist documents?

I'm thinking you haven't.

Here, have a gander.

South Carolina Declarations of Causes of Seceding States American Civil War
Mississippi Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War
Texas Declarations of Causes of Seceding States

Take a few moments to skim though that. If you're too lazy, maybe you could do a Control ^F and enter "slavery" in the box.

Tell me how many times you see it.

The reasons the south left the Union and the reasons for the Civil War are not the same thing.

Wait for it.....wait for it....gratuitous Cornerstone speech strawman in
3...2....1....

Said the psychotic wretch who posts a bloody picture of Lincoln getting his head blown out by a bullet.

 

[mudwhistle]

i'd rank him first.

i'm figuring the people who rank him toward or at the bottom are still ticked off that the south lost the war.

what do you think?

I think they don't like strong American leaders that do everything in their power to defend the US and the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

So Lincoln had to abandon the Constitution, to save the Constitution?

I don't think he abandoned it.

You might want to be more specific.

He may have used emergency executive powers granted to him in the constitution to go around some of it's shortcomings such as suspending Habeus Corpus to prevent enemies from using the Constitution to do harm to this country....much like they are today.

 

[beowolfe]

In August, 1862 Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley, an editor of the New York Tribune, who published an open letter insisting President Lincoln free the slaves immediately. In Lincoln's reply he wrote "If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that" (Voices of America, p.138). Lincoln objective was to save the Union, not to either save or destroy slavery.

IMO, Lincoln ranks first. He saved this experiment in democracy and freedom and steered it to a path that resulted in a backwater nation becoming the first nation of the world in only 80 years.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Nobody can be worse than FDR or Wilson, not even Lincoln.

 

[Oscar Wao]

I think they don't like strong American leaders that do everything in their power to defend the US and the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

So Lincoln had to abandon the Constitution, to save the Constitution?

I don't think he abandoned it.

You might want to be more specific.

He may have used emergency executive powers granted to him in the constitution to go around some of it's shortcomings such as suspending Habeus Corpus to prevent enemies from using the Constitution to do harm to this country....much like they are today.

He kinda destroyed the concept of a voluntary Union..

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Ever read the Secessionist documents?

I'm thinking you haven't.

Here, have a gander.

South Carolina Declarations of Causes of Seceding States American Civil War
Mississippi Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War
Texas Declarations of Causes of Seceding States

Take a few moments to skim though that. If you're too lazy, maybe you could do a Control ^F and enter "slavery" in the box.

Tell me how many times you see it.

The reasons the south left the Union and the reasons for the Civil War are not the same thing.

They are however, intermingled.

They are. The south seceded and slavery played its part in their decision, and Lincoln waged his war because he didn't believe that the states had the right to leave the Union. Not out of some belief in the evils of slavery.

 

[del]

The reasons the south left the Union and the reasons for the Civil War are not the same thing.

They are however, intermingled.

They are. The south seceded and slavery played its part in their decision, and Lincoln waged his war because he didn't believe that the states had the right to leave the Union. Not out of some belief in the evils of slavery.

lincoln waged the war because he knew, not believed, that 60% of u.s. exports at the time came from the south.

follow the money.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I think they don't like strong American leaders that do everything in their power to defend the US and the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

So Lincoln had to abandon the Constitution, to save the Constitution?

I don't think he abandoned it.

You might want to be more specific.

He may have used emergency executive powers granted to him in the constitution to go around some of it's shortcomings such as suspending Habeus Corpus to prevent enemies from using the Constitution to do harm to this country....much like they are today.

There is, however, no such emergency power that declares that the freedom of speech or the freedom of press may be infringed upon. The Constitution does allow for the suspension of habeas corpus, which is one of its many failings. Lincoln certainly had no right to deport an Ohio Congressman for speaking out against him, or issue an arrest warrant for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They are however, intermingled.

They are. The south seceded and slavery played its part in their decision, and Lincoln waged his war because he didn't believe that the states had the right to leave the Union. Not out of some belief in the evils of slavery.

lincoln waged the war because he knew, not believed, that 60% of u.s. exports at the time came from the south.

follow the money.

Certainly. He knew the protectionist northern states couldn't compete with a free trade southern confederacy, and he knew that the government would be deprived of a lot of money if the south was allowed to leave and stop paying their taxes and tariffs. Money that Lincoln desperately wanted for all the internal "improvements" he championed as a believer in Henry Clay's American System.

 

[JakeStarkey]

He is second after George Washington. George is first cause he could have been King and instead only served 2 terms as President and refused to run again.

I agree with this. GW is first because he was the First. He set precedent for everything and did a pretty good job. AL is second because he turned the union into a nation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So Lincoln had to abandon the Constitution, to save the Constitution?

I don't think he abandoned it.

You might want to be more specific.

He may have used emergency executive powers granted to him in the constitution to go around some of it's shortcomings such as suspending Habeus Corpus to prevent enemies from using the Constitution to do harm to this country....much like they are today.

There is, however, no such emergency power that declares that the freedom of speech or the freedom of press may be infringed upon. The Constitution does allow for the suspension of habeas corpus, which is one of its many failings. Lincoln certainly had no right to deport an Ohio Congressman for speaking out against him, or issue an arrest warrant for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Kevin's half-right: There is permission to suspend habeas, but it is NOT the President's job.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin's half-right: There is permission to suspend habeas, but it is NOT the President's job.

You're right, I didn't make that distinction.

 

[paperview]

Kevin's half-right: There is permission to suspend habeas, but it is NOT the President's job.

The Constitution is vague on whose job it is.

"the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the pubic safety may require it."

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kevin's half-right: There is permission to suspend habeas, but it is NOT the President's job.

The Constitution is vague on whose job it is.

"the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the pubic safety may require it."

The powers of commander-in-chief are invested in the president (Article II, Section 2) while the power of suspension of HC is invested in Congress (Article I, Section 9).

So, if the president declars suspension, the Congress would have to approve it, then the President sign the bill? Is that right?