When has a union created a job?

[Steelplate]

Actyually Econ 101 told me that. Try it sometimes.
Why does labor need "a voice" other than the option of taking or not taking a job at offered wages? Corporations have "representation" because it is their money they are spending. Or do you think it's really the money of the proletariat that the capitalists have cheated their way in to, like so many other communist labor organizers?

Read my sigline, buddy. the only reasons corporations HAVE money is their labor force.

And the only reason union scags have jobs is corporations.
You are a commie. Glad we cleared that up.

If Corporations paid a solid wage and benefits, there would be no need for Unions... unfortunately... they choose to serve themselves alone and have no sense of, or care for the little people.

You are a fuckin' ****... glad we cleared that up.

 

[grunt11b]

When has a union created a job?

When it imposed the eight-hour day on American industry it created millions of jobs.

What jobs? And it could not impose something that congress had to sign into law, does that mean congress created millions of jobs? I dont think so. Someone has to create jobs before a union can leech it's way in.

 

[grunt11b]

There are some really stupid people here.

After thinking about that for a few minutes.....and going over Healthmyths' wonderful thread about how wealthy our poor people are, I have had a change of heart.

There are some really stupid AND insecure people here.

If you compare what we as Americans think are poor people to the people of the world who really are poor, you can see the difference. Our poor people have cell phones and cars, they dont have to worry about paying there bills because they are paid for by the taxpayer. Be honest here, when you see folks who claim to be poor buying cigarettes and booze, are they really poor? By world standards, our poor people in America are way better off then poor people from around the rest of the world.

 

[grunt11b]

...and it's blatantly obvious that unions and union organizers are marxist. If you agree with marxism, I'd like to say more power to you and what have you- but in all honesty- get out of our country.

Here is a FACT about unions that is little known or mentioned-

In a non-union job - a salary might be say, 25 or 26 $ per hour, right?

In a union job, that same position would cost the employer 43-46 $ per hour.

Which shows that the union is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Bargain in good faith to get its members fair wages and benefits.

I thank the company for for hiring me. Beyond that I thank the union for getting me the wages and benefits I receive. As a blue collar worker I make a very good wage and get very good health and pension benefits. And guess what? The company I work still makes a TREMENDOUS profit.

Theres always an exception to the rule. You obviously work for a very good company, the same cannot be said for alot of other ones that unions have destroyed. It happens.

 

[naturegirl]

I know... sLimebaugh told you that. So tell me, now that I have your attention... why is it that you are so scared of labor having a voice when Corporations can have all the representation they desire?

Actyually Econ 101 told me that. Try it sometimes.
Why does labor need "a voice" other than the option of taking or not taking a job at offered wages? Corporations have "representation" because it is their money they are spending. Or do you think it's really the money of the proletariat that the capitalists have cheated their way in to, like so many other communist labor organizers?

Read my sigline, buddy. the only reasons corporations HAVE money is their labor force.

You're stuck in the 60s. There was a time when some business existed because of labor, but those jobs are long gone, most over to China. An investor like George Soros makes his money with his money. The IT guy that works out of his basement needs no labor but his own, he makes more than enough to live on. Your ideas are what used to be, technology has outpaced that line of thinking.

Oh and no one is talking about taking away collective bargaining rights of labor from corporations, last I checked the government doesn't "make" anything. Why the hell do government workers need a Union??

I thought Dems were progressive, why are they living in the past?

 

[Mr Natural]

There are some really stupid people here.

After thinking about that for a few minutes.....and going over Healthmyths' wonderful thread about how wealthy our poor people are, I have had a change of heart.

There are some really stupid AND insecure people here.

If you compare what we as Americans think are poor people to the people of the world who really are poor, you can see the difference. Our poor people have cell phones and cars, they dont have to worry about paying there bills because they are paid for by the taxpayer. Be honest here, when you see folks who claim to be poor buying cigarettes and booze, are they really poor? By world standards, our poor people in America are way better off then poor people from around the rest of the world.

A fact we can all be proud of and thankful for.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Or for that matter.. when has a group of poor people created jobs?

Or why don't we declare ALL businesses are NONPROFIT!

Which means there will be committees , i.e. central planners in D.C. that will tell all oil, transportation, manufacturers how often they will drill, or pump or when cars can be on the roads, or how many iPads can be built because
Central planning" says there isn't enough lithium available for the batteries because Central planning hasn't signed the Afghanistan agreement from China!

NOT for profits meaning NO Federal income/state/local/sales or property taxes!

Come on all of you are in favor of withdrawing from these evil profit making banks and putting into those kindly nonprofit credit unions right???
AFter all they have "union" in their name!

So who will pay the property taxes after all NONPROFITS are exempt!

Again.. tell me all you OWS supporters.. why not do away with ALL evil for profit companies?

Because that seems to be the logical extension!

I think you miss the point.

The purpose of unions are not to "create" jobs. Unions don't create jobs, and neither do corporations. Consumer demand creates jobs- either in the free market or through public expediture.

The free market might put six flavors of Pepsi on your shelf, but the public sector is the only one that can put a road to the supermarket.

No, you are wrong.
Companies create jobs because managers must allocate available resources. That includes resources dedicated to labor for the enterprise. So they must make decisions on overtime, capital expenditure as a substitute for labor, and workforce expansion.
Unions do nothing of the sort. Unions negotiate terms for their workers, using their monopoly power (the company cannot get labor elsewhere) to negotiate above-market rates of compensation for their members (if they were market rates the workers wouldn't need a union). Thus companies pay extra for their labor, making their products less competitive.

What people don't reali e is that before unions a working man had nothing. Most of the country lived in poverty and if a foreman didn't like the way somebody parted their hair he told them to draw their pay. There were ten men waiting for his job. Before unions and social security county farms is where the poor ended up. They were called poor houses. Many of the poor were buried in unmarked graves. A cripple, an orphan and the elderly were walked on like so much pig shit. I was there in the late thirties and early 40's...I saw it. That's exactly what the Republicans and big corporations would like to see again. All the money flowing to the top...exactly the way it has been doing for the last thirty years.

 

[Steelplate]

There are some really stupid people here.

After thinking about that for a few minutes.....and going over Healthmyths' wonderful thread about how wealthy our poor people are, I have had a change of heart.

There are some really stupid AND insecure people here.

If you compare what we as Americans think are poor people to the people of the world who really are poor, you can see the difference. Our poor people have cell phones and cars, they dont have to worry about paying there bills because they are paid for by the taxpayer. Be honest here, when you see folks who claim to be poor buying cigarettes and booze, are they really poor? By world standards, our poor people in America are way better off then poor people from around the rest of the world.

wow.... I guess that only reinforces my belief that the REAL Conservative agenda is to make our country like all those other ones where the poor is "REALLY" poor.

Thanks for proving my point.... that Conservatives are the REAL anti-Americans... Not Progressives. Progressives want a degree of Comfort and success for ALL Americans... not just the select few who "make it".
Furthermore, Progressives... unlike Popular Conservative Opinion... aren't calling for income equality(everyone making the same), we just don't want to be hosed by the ultra wealthy.

I think enough of our population is speaking in volumes about how much they are struggling... yet all I hear is that "they aren't REALLY poor", or "they're just lazy", or a host of other bullshit remarks that are just parroted talking points that come forth by wealthy, greedy people who don't want to "Trickle Down" to the people that made them wealthy.

I am starting to think that the wealthy elite's vision for this country come from studying Banana Republics in Central and South America, and saying YEAH.... that's the way I want MY country to run!

If this is the case... it's YOUR side that is the enemy of the State... Not the Progressives, who want everyone to live a better life. We are a BETTER Society than Banana Republics, We are a BETTER Society than a Corporatist dictatorship like China, We are the best country in the world and we need to set the damned bar MUCH higher than it is right now. If the wealthy elite have a problem with that, Maybe it's they who need to get the **** out of OUR country. I consider them borderline traitors anyway.

 

[grunt11b]

Or for that matter.. when has a group of poor people created jobs?

Or why don't we declare ALL businesses are NONPROFIT!

Which means there will be committees , i.e. central planners in D.C. that will tell all oil, transportation, manufacturers how often they will drill, or pump or when cars can be on the roads, or how many iPads can be built because
Central planning" says there isn't enough lithium available for the batteries because Central planning hasn't signed the Afghanistan agreement from China!

NOT for profits meaning NO Federal income/state/local/sales or property taxes!

Come on all of you are in favor of withdrawing from these evil profit making banks and putting into those kindly nonprofit credit unions right???
AFter all they have "union" in their name!

So who will pay the property taxes after all NONPROFITS are exempt!

Again.. tell me all you OWS supporters.. why not do away with ALL evil for profit companies?

Because that seems to be the logical extension!

Why don't rich people want to serve their country and pay their fair share like they once did

Pat Tilman served his country, gave his life for it too. And the wealthy already pay above 45% in taxes so they are already paying more then their fair share compared to everyone else. How about those who are on welfare that pay no taxes at all pay their fair share for once by getting a job and pitching in?. Why dont we hear you left wing whackos ever beat that drum?

Why have Republicans sold out the country and become hacks for coorporations and the wealthy

Are you going to sit there and pretend that Obama is not in bed with big business and the wealthy? General Electric, the CEO of which is obamas economic advisor paid zero taxes the last 3 years, and you are screaming about the wealthy not paying there fair share. Also, George soros is Obamas buddy but according to you he must get a free pass because he is not a republican right?

Where were all you right wing blabbermouths while Reagan and the Bushes were making this mess

We where at work paying taxes, where were you?

The total national debt was less than a trillion dollars when Ronald Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy and in twelve years he and Bush41 had quadrupled it to $4.3 trillion

And in the last 3 years Obama out did the previous 3 presidents by running it up to almost 5 trillion on his own, outspending every president in american history. Where is your outrage on this as well?

Clinton raised taxes and in eight years was generating surpluses

Clinton only did what his GOP congress allowed him to do. If it where not for the GOP we would be dealing with hillarycare right now, and his higher taxes did not help out much with the surplus, his downgrading of our military helped out the surplus but stretched our military dangerously thin, as we now know.

Along came slow walkin, slow talkin George and in eight years he had doubled it again from $5,7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion. Oh yeah...I forgot to mention that he cut taxes twice and started two wars.

Although he is not innocent of some things, Bush had to finance two wars yes. But what would you have done if terrorists flew two planes into the world trade center and downed another one in PA and killed 3000 of your citizens? Lemme guess, you would have flew over,bowed to them and met them without preconditions right? Typical liberal *****.
And dont forget, Obama continued the Bush era policies and kept us into those wars and added two more wars to it. I bet he gets another free pas from you on that as well. Fucken Hypocrite.

 

[syrenn]

Unions have created many jobs...

They created jobs with a 40 hour workweek
They created jobs with fair hiring and promotion opportunities
They created jobs with vacation and health benefits
They created jobs where you work in a safe work environment
They created jobs where you don't have to put up with sexual harassment to remain employed

Yes, we can all be thankful for the jobs unions have created

That is only influencing jobs..

It has nothing to do with creating jobs.

 

[KissMy]

Every American owes their jobs to the work of unions. It was unions or the threats of unions that got workers the benefits they see today.

Remove the threat of collective bargaining and we will revert to third world status

Private sector collective bargaining is ok. Public sector collective bargaining is NOT!

 

[Mr Natural]

When has a union created a job?

When, largely through the efforts of the Labor Movement, a working person, unionized or not, makes a decent enough wage to have some discretionary income to pump back into the economy and the free time to pump it back in.

That's when.

 

[grunt11b]

Why don't rich people want to serve their country and pay their fair share like they once did

Why have Republicans sold out the country and become hacks for coorporations and the wealthy

Where were all you right wing blabbermouths while Reagan and the Bushes were making this mess

The total national debt was less than a trillion dollars when Ronald Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy and in twelve years he and Bush41 had quadrupled it to $4.3 trillion

Clinton raised taxes and in eight years was generating surpluses

Along came slow walkin, slow talkin George and in eight years he had doubled it again from $5,7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion. Oh yeah...I forgot to mention that he cut taxes twice and started two wars.

The problem is you are looking at the Debt issue from the wrong perspective.

When Jimmy Carter took office, the "National Debt" was a mere 600 billion. This was all the debt we had run up in 200 years of history, including the space program, two world wars, an interstate highway system, huge entitlement spending and so on. But we mostly had enough money to cover that, alternatively running surpluses and deficits.

So what changed in 1976?

1976 was the first year we imported more goods than we exported.

Prior to that time, we were pulling in money from the rest of the world. We were the world's factory. The world wars were a big boost, but we continued some time afterwards, until the rest of the world caught up using methods we pioneered and improved upon them.

By the end of Carter, it was up to a trillion in debt. Carter ran up 400 billion in new debt. Reagan increased it to 3 trillion, Bush to 4.3, Clinton to 6 trillion and Bush-43 to 10 trillion.

Now Obama has gotten it up to 15 trillion.

Because we are still spending like it was 1976, even though we are bleeding money out of the country at a rate of 500 billion a year in trade deficits.

Please dont confuse them with facts. It's all the GOP and Bush's fault.

 

[grunt11b]

Why don't rich people want to serve their country and pay their fair share like they once did

Why have Republicans sold out the country and become hacks for coorporations and the wealthy

Where were all you right wing blabbermouths while Reagan and the Bushes were making this mess

The total national debt was less than a trillion dollars when Ronald Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy and in twelve years he and Bush41 had quadrupled it to $4.3 trillion

Clinton raised taxes and in eight years was generating surpluses

Along came slow walkin, slow talkin George and in eight years he had doubled it again from $5,7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion. Oh yeah...I forgot to mention that he cut taxes twice and started two wars.

The problem is you are looking at the Debt issue from the wrong perspective.

When Jimmy Carter took office, the "National Debt" was a mere 600 billion. This was all the debt we had run up in 200 years of history, including the space program, two world wars, an interstate highway system, huge entitlement spending and so on. But we mostly had enough money to cover that, alternatively running surpluses and deficits.

So what changed in 1976?

1976 was the first year we imported more goods than we exported.

Prior to that time, we were pulling in money from the rest of the world. We were the world's factory. The world wars were a big boost, but we continued some time afterwards, until the rest of the world caught up using methods we pioneered and improved upon them.

By the end of Carter, it was up to a trillion in debt. Carter ran up 400 billion in new debt. Reagan increased it to 3 trillion, Bush to 4.3, Clinton to 6 trillion and Bush-43 to 10 trillion.

Now Obama has gotten it up to 15 trillion.

Because we are still spending like it was 1976, even though we are bleeding money out of the country at a rate of 500 billion a year in trade deficits.

Reagan and the Bushes left Obama a half a trillion dolllars a year interest payment on their borrowing to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. You didn't think Communist Chinese, Japanese and Canadian banks were loaning them trillions of dollars interest free did you

Hey! I can't help it if you right wing folks don't get it. Right now tax rates are as low as they've been in fifty years. At the end of the second world war we paid off the debt. In the 50's anyone who earned more than $300,000 a year paid 91% of the excess to the government. How is it that Bush 43 thought it was OK to cut taxes twice using reconciliation to block Democratic opposition, borrow money to fund them and start two wars

You cant raise taxes in the economy we are in now, it would be foolish to do. It's not going to happen without budget cuts, so deal with it.
Bush cut taxes to spur growth in business, it worked. Obama wants to raise taxes on people who create jobs in an economy that is already near depression levels, does that make any damn sense to you at all?

 

[grunt11b]

...and it's blatantly obvious that unions and union organizers are marxist. If you agree with marxism, I'd like to say more power to you and what have you- but in all honesty- get out of our country.

Here is a FACT about unions that is little known or mentioned-

In a non-union job - a salary might be say, 25 or 26 $ per hour, right?

In a union job, that same position would cost the employer 43-46 $ per hour.

Pulling numbers out of your ass? My wife is an RN and makes about $26/hour for the Commonwealth of PA...She's also a member of SEIU. Furthermore... that $26/hour is after 23 years of Service.

Nothing like exaggerating to cause fear... well... why should I be surprised... that's what right wingers do.

Kinda like Joe Biden saying rapes and murders will go up if Obamas jobs bill didn't pass? Or how about:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8vgtZG6eM]Fear Mongering Democrat compares Budget Battle to BOMBING INNOCENT CIVILIANS - YouTube[/ame]
Yep, only those crazy rightwingers are fear mongerers.
A more factual comparison is that a non-union job might pay $10/hour and the same job in a union might pay $13, Plus the Union job will have a better benefits package.

You know... I love this mythological thinking from you guys. Big Business can have scads of lawyers and Lobbyists to represent their interests... but labor shouldn't be allowed to have anything to represent their NEEDS. That's how ******* brainwashed you guys are. ANYTHING that Faux News and the Gods of AM Radio say... you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

It's between the employer and employee to hash out details of pay and the jobs itself. Not for some union to come in and act like they run the shit, because they dont. If the employee does not like how he/she is being paid, they are free to go work somewhere else.
And dont get me wrong, I used to be a union member and supported it through thick and thin, until I found out they where skimming union money and paying to put politicians into place that I did not support, that's when I yanked my membership.
Unions once had a place in American labor, we no longer need a union to get things done because all regulations have been put in place to protect worker rights and what not.

 

[grunt11b]

Every American owes their jobs to the work of unions. It was unions or the threats of unions that got workers the benefits they see today.

Remove the threat of collective bargaining and we will revert to third world status

The unions of old maybe, but not the newer communist run unions of today. Big difference.

 

[MiddleClass]

Unions don't create Jobs, they save them. Sheesh, some of you 1%ers really need a dose of reality.

 

[grunt11b]

I know... sLimebaugh told you that. So tell me, now that I have your attention... why is it that you are so scared of labor having a voice when Corporations can have all the representation they desire?

Actyually Econ 101 told me that. Try it sometimes.
Why does labor need "a voice" other than the option of taking or not taking a job at offered wages? Corporations have "representation" because it is their money they are spending. Or do you think it's really the money of the proletariat that the capitalists have cheated their way in to, like so many other communist labor organizers?

Read my sigline, buddy. the only reasons corporations HAVE money is their labor force.

I wonder how business owners got rich off of their businesses before unions came along. Hmmmmm.

 

[grunt11b]

When have unions spilled 2 million barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico?

When have unions created a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy?

When have unions fought against the minimum wage and healthcare for all Americans?

When have unions sought to abolish child labor laws?

When have unions bought influence in Congress that was against the best interests of all Americans?

When?

Every time the min wage gets raised and it hurts especially black teenagers. I realize you don't give two shits about black teenagers but some of us want to see them work their way out of poverty and oppression by the government.
When have corporations used violence against people for nothing other than crossing a line?

Oh..they've done it. Perhaps you need to study up on the Robber Baron Days of our country during the Industrial Revolution and beyond. Corporations killed strikers with the help of local militias on numerous occasions. You have no ******* clue what you're talking about.

Back in the day...yes, but that is not happening now. You act like if we didn't have unions now it would be like that all over again, which is not true. The unions of back then have a had a far different agenda than the unions of today.

 

[Amelia]

Unions chase jobs out of their states to states without unions, and failing that, to other countries.