Zone1 When Evil Seems to Win...Relating to the Psalms

[buttercup]

If you read the Psalms, you quickly see that one of the major themes is believers calling out to God for justice and vindication when they’ve been wronged by the wicked.

Here are just a few examples….

Psalm 35:1-2​

​

Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;​

fight against those who fight against me!​

Take hold of shield and buckler​

and rise for my help!​

Psalm 40:13-14​

​

Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me;​

O Lord, make haste to help me!​

Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion​

Who seek to destroy my life;​

Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor​

Who wish me evil.​

Psalm 94:1-3​

​

O Lord, the God who avenges!​

O God who avenges, reveal your splendor.​

Rise up, O judge of the earth.​

Pay back the proud.​

O Lord, how long will the wicked,​

how long will the wicked celebrate?​

The reason I’m bringing this up is because I’ve been dealing with an infuriating situation (long story, but I talked about it on this thread) and I can deeply relate to the psalmists crying out to God for justice.

Also, seeing evil in the world in general - for example, extremely powerful people being involved in heinous crimes and apparently getting away with it (at least on this side of heaven) - just adds to the overall feeling of demoralization and frustration.

What are your thoughts on those types of psalms? There are some that are really harsh. (The ones I posted are relatively mild.)

Even as I’m writing this, I’m remembering that in the New Testament, we are told to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Do you believe that some of those Old Testament “imprecatory prayers” are wrong, in light of the New Testament?

I say there’s a big difference between praying for someone’s destruction or damnation…and praying for their eyes to be opened, and that they’ll repent and be redeemed. Or in other words, simply praying for justice.


Here’s an excerpt from gotquestions.org, on this topic:

While Jesus Himself quoted some imprecatory psalms (John 2:17; 15:25), He also instructed us to love our enemies and pray for them (Matthew 5:44–48; Luke 6:27–38). The New Testament makes it clear that our enemy is spiritual, not physical (Ephesians 6:12). It is not sinful to pray the imprecatory psalms against our spiritual enemies, but we should also pray with compassion and love and even thanksgiving for people who are under the devil’s influence (1 Timothy 2:1). We should desire their salvation. After all, God “is patient . . . not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). Above all things, we should seek the will of God in everything we do and, when we are wronged, leave the ultimate outcome to the Lord (Romans 12:19).​

​

The bottom line is that the imprecatory psalms communicate a deep yearning for justice, written from the point of view of those who had been mightily oppressed. God’s people have the promise of divine vengeance: “Will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly” (Luke 18:7–8; cf. Revelation 19:2).​

To the believers here, what are your thoughts on this, and can you too relate to the psalmists?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I prayed for years for someone in government to finally start deportations on a large scale. Trump is doing it.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

If you read the Psalms, you quickly see that one of the major themes is believers calling out to God for justice and vindication when they’ve been wronged by the wicked.

Here are just a few examples….

Psalm 35:1-2​

​

Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;​

fight against those who fight against me!​

Take hold of shield and buckler​

and rise for my help!​

Psalm 40:13-14​

​

Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me;​

O Lord, make haste to help me!​

Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion​

Who seek to destroy my life;​

Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor​

Who wish me evil.​

Psalm 94:1-3​

​

O Lord, the God who avenges!​

O God who avenges, reveal your splendor.​

Rise up, O judge of the earth.​

Pay back the proud.​

O Lord, how long will the wicked,​

how long will the wicked celebrate?​

The reason I’m bringing this up is because I’ve been dealing with an infuriating situation (long story, but I talked about it on this thread) and I can deeply relate to the psalmists crying out to God for justice.

Also, seeing evil in the world in general - for example, extremely powerful people being involved in heinous crimes and apparently getting away with it (at least on this side of heaven) - just adds to the overall feeling of demoralization and frustration.

What are your thoughts on those types of psalms? There are some that are really harsh. (The ones I posted are relatively mild.)

Even as I’m writing this, I’m remembering that in the New Testament, we are told to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Do you believe that some of those Old Testament “imprecatory prayers” are wrong, in light of the New Testament?

I say there’s a big difference between praying for someone’s destruction or damnation…and praying for their eyes to be opened, and that they’ll repent and be redeemed. Or in other words, simply praying for justice.


Here’s an excerpt from gotquestions.org, on this topic:

While Jesus Himself quoted some imprecatory psalms (John 2:17; 15:25), He also instructed us to love our enemies and pray for them (Matthew 5:44–48; Luke 6:27–38). The New Testament makes it clear that our enemy is spiritual, not physical (Ephesians 6:12). It is not sinful to pray the imprecatory psalms against our spiritual enemies, but we should also pray with compassion and love and even thanksgiving for people who are under the devil’s influence (1 Timothy 2:1). We should desire their salvation. After all, God “is patient . . . not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). Above all things, we should seek the will of God in everything we do and, when we are wronged, leave the ultimate outcome to the Lord (Romans 12:19).​

​

The bottom line is that the imprecatory psalms communicate a deep yearning for justice, written from the point of view of those who had been mightily oppressed. God’s people have the promise of divine vengeance: “Will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly” (Luke 18:7–8; cf. Revelation 19:2).​

To the believers here, what are your thoughts on this, and can you too relate to the psalmists?

What a wonderful question and curiosity into some of the fulfilling portions of the bible. The Psalms are at times like the halftime pep talk, but can also address horrid things.

As for the Psalms you reference, it all screams of deliverance. Someone who swoons to escape the sinful reality of the world. I wish I felt what the Psalmists did daily.

 

[buttercup]

What a wonderful question and curiosity into some of the fulfilling portions of the bible. The Psalms are at times like the halftime pep talk, but can also address horrid things.

As for the Psalms you reference, it all screams of deliverance. Someone who swoons to escape the sinful reality of the world. I wish I felt what the Psalmists did daily.

Thanks! That's a good way of describing the Psalms, lol! It's true that they're very inspiring and encouraging, but also it addresses horrid things.

But maybe I misunderstood the second thing you said, because for me, I don't like being in that position the psalmists are in, crying out to God to intervene in a bad situation and bring about justice and vindication.

 

[ding]

If you read the Psalms, you quickly see that one of the major themes is believers calling out to God for justice and vindication when they’ve been wronged by the wicked.

Here are just a few examples….

Psalm 35:1-2​

​

Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;​

fight against those who fight against me!​

Take hold of shield and buckler​

and rise for my help!​

Psalm 40:13-14​

​

Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me;​

O Lord, make haste to help me!​

Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion​

Who seek to destroy my life;​

Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor​

Who wish me evil.​

Psalm 94:1-3​

​

O Lord, the God who avenges!​

O God who avenges, reveal your splendor.​

Rise up, O judge of the earth.​

Pay back the proud.​

O Lord, how long will the wicked,​

how long will the wicked celebrate?​

The reason I’m bringing this up is because I’ve been dealing with an infuriating situation (long story, but I talked about it on this thread) and I can deeply relate to the psalmists crying out to God for justice.

Also, seeing evil in the world in general - for example, extremely powerful people being involved in heinous crimes and apparently getting away with it (at least on this side of heaven) - just adds to the overall feeling of demoralization and frustration.

What are your thoughts on those types of psalms? There are some that are really harsh. (The ones I posted are relatively mild.)

Even as I’m writing this, I’m remembering that in the New Testament, we are told to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Do you believe that some of those Old Testament “imprecatory prayers” are wrong, in light of the New Testament?

I say there’s a big difference between praying for someone’s destruction or damnation…and praying for their eyes to be opened, and that they’ll repent and be redeemed. Or in other words, simply praying for justice.


Here’s an excerpt from gotquestions.org, on this topic:

While Jesus Himself quoted some imprecatory psalms (John 2:17; 15:25), He also instructed us to love our enemies and pray for them (Matthew 5:44–48; Luke 6:27–38). The New Testament makes it clear that our enemy is spiritual, not physical (Ephesians 6:12). It is not sinful to pray the imprecatory psalms against our spiritual enemies, but we should also pray with compassion and love and even thanksgiving for people who are under the devil’s influence (1 Timothy 2:1). We should desire their salvation. After all, God “is patient . . . not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). Above all things, we should seek the will of God in everything we do and, when we are wronged, leave the ultimate outcome to the Lord (Romans 12:19).​

​

The bottom line is that the imprecatory psalms communicate a deep yearning for justice, written from the point of view of those who had been mightily oppressed. God’s people have the promise of divine vengeance: “Will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly” (Luke 18:7–8; cf. Revelation 19:2).​

To the believers here, what are your thoughts on this, and can you too relate to the psalmists?

My signature line touches on this. The world is unfair, we should expect to make sacrifices. The question is how will we make them; grudgingly and with complaint? Or we peace and joy because we trust in the Lord?

We don't have perfect knowledge. So we must trust in the Lord to bring about good from bad. Isn't that what the Lord's prayer is basically saying?

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Thanks! That's a good way of describing the Psalms, lol! It's true that they're very inspiring and encouraging, but also it addresses horrid things.

But maybe I misunderstood the second thing you said, because for me, I don't like being in that position the psalmists are in, crying out to God to intervene in a bad situation and bring about justice and vindication.

Well, let me suggest a few things:

1. Nobody would "like" being in the position some of the psalmists are in. It sounds like they are on the brink of all that is horrible.

2. Christ promised his grace through those who maintain faith through suffering.

3. This is what separates an atheist, secularist, or even some Protestants from us Catholics. The former views suffering, strife, and confusion as completely apart from Christ, and Catholicism views these things as a cross to bear. This pressure doesn't come naturally or immediate, but it's correct.

4. Those in first world living have many misconceptions of what is expected of them. You could be expected to have your house, family, and all that is known in your eyes torn from you like the book of Job, and you'd still not only have to, but want to, praise the Lord despite your grief.

It can seem Cold, but God's love is not only cold, but also warm and just. He understands your situations.

 

[buttercup]

My signature line touches on this. The world is unfair, we should expect to make sacrifices. The question is how will we make them; grudgingly and with complaint? Or we peace and joy because we trust in the Lord?

We don't have perfect knowledge. So we must trust in the Lord to bring about good from bad. Isn't that what the Lord's prayer is basically saying?

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.

Thank you. Very good point, and that was actually convicting for me, so I'm glad you said that.

I know that God works all things together for good for those who love Him... and I know that God is really good at turning what the enemy meant for evil, into something good. (Genesis 50:20)

So I agree that we have to just trust God. And I do. But sometimes you just don't know if that justice will come here, in the land of the living.... or not until judgement day, lol. And if it's the latter, that's the thing that can be challenging to deal with.

 

[LilBit]

If you read the Psalms, you quickly see that one of the major themes is believers calling out to God for justice and vindication when they’ve been wronged by the wicked.

Here are just a few examples….

Psalm 35:1-2​

​

Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;​

fight against those who fight against me!​

Take hold of shield and buckler​

and rise for my help!​

Psalm 40:13-14​

​

Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me;​

O Lord, make haste to help me!​

Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion​

Who seek to destroy my life;​

Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor​

Who wish me evil.​

Psalm 94:1-3​

​

O Lord, the God who avenges!​

O God who avenges, reveal your splendor.​

Rise up, O judge of the earth.​

Pay back the proud.​

O Lord, how long will the wicked,​

how long will the wicked celebrate?​

The reason I’m bringing this up is because I’ve been dealing with an infuriating situation (long story, but I talked about it on this thread) and I can deeply relate to the psalmists crying out to God for justice.

Also, seeing evil in the world in general - for example, extremely powerful people being involved in heinous crimes and apparently getting away with it (at least on this side of heaven) - just adds to the overall feeling of demoralization and frustration.

What are your thoughts on those types of psalms? There are some that are really harsh. (The ones I posted are relatively mild.)

Even as I’m writing this, I’m remembering that in the New Testament, we are told to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Do you believe that some of those Old Testament “imprecatory prayers” are wrong, in light of the New Testament?

I say there’s a big difference between praying for someone’s destruction or damnation…and praying for their eyes to be opened, and that they’ll repent and be redeemed. Or in other words, simply praying for justice.


Here’s an excerpt from gotquestions.org, on this topic:

While Jesus Himself quoted some imprecatory psalms (John 2:17; 15:25), He also instructed us to love our enemies and pray for them (Matthew 5:44–48; Luke 6:27–38). The New Testament makes it clear that our enemy is spiritual, not physical (Ephesians 6:12). It is not sinful to pray the imprecatory psalms against our spiritual enemies, but we should also pray with compassion and love and even thanksgiving for people who are under the devil’s influence (1 Timothy 2:1). We should desire their salvation. After all, God “is patient . . . not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). Above all things, we should seek the will of God in everything we do and, when we are wronged, leave the ultimate outcome to the Lord (Romans 12:19).​

​

The bottom line is that the imprecatory psalms communicate a deep yearning for justice, written from the point of view of those who had been mightily oppressed. God’s people have the promise of divine vengeance: “Will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly” (Luke 18:7–8; cf. Revelation 19:2).​

To the believers here, what are your thoughts on this, and can you too relate to the psalmists?

Thanks for this post. The situation you linked to is heart-wrenching. I do relate to the psalmists. I find myself praying in like ways in many circumstances in life, in particular in the situation you link to. Justice is important to God, and it should be to humans as well. Violence is perpetuated in part because the administration of justice is not done according to God's mandates. When people are not held accountable, they continue to commit acts that are unjust. Unjustness becomes embedded in a society. Rooting out injustice is crucial within communities to keep not only peace among us, but maintain healthy, strong, and right relationship with one another. So like in the circumstances you link to, when there isn't justice, the person committing the crime is embolden to continue acts of injustice. So it is critical that we speak up for those who are being treated unfairly, unjustly, and to cry out to God for Him to act, too. Thanks again, for this well said post.

 

[ding]

But maybe I misunderstood the second thing you said, because for me, I don't like being in that position the psalmists are in, crying out to God to intervene in a bad situation and bring about justice and vindication.

It was a common theme in Judaism that the world God created isn't fair and demanded that God put it right. I'm not saying they blamed God. It was more a recognition that things weren't right and they expected that God would put things right. The Christian view is a little different. Our view is that we are effectively rebels against God and that's why the world isn't fair and won't be fair until we surrender to God. For me, praying is more about helping me cope with the injustice of the world. It's my way of finding peace through the storm. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give me my daily nourishment to help me cope with the injustice.

 

[ding]

I know that God is really good at turning what the enemy meant for evil, into something good. (Genesis 50:20)

I quote that all the time. It's very powerful.

 

[buttercup]

Thanks for this post. The situation you linked to is heart-wrenching. I do relate to the psalmists. I find myself praying in like ways in many circumstances in life, in particular in the situation you link to. Justice is important to God, and it should be to humans as well. Violence is perpetuated in part because the administration of justice is not done according to God's mandates. When people are not held accountable, they continue to commit acts that are unjust. Unjustness becomes embedded in a society. Rooting out injustice is crucial within communities to keep not only peace among us, but maintain healthy, strong, and right relationship with one another. So like in the circumstances you link to, when there isn't justice, the person committing the crime is embolden to continue acts of injustice. So it is critical that we speak up for those who are being treated unfairly, unjustly, and to cry out to God for Him to act, too. Thanks again, for this well said post.

Yup. Thanks for your thoughts on this. And since you're part of that group I talked about in the linked thread... you're one of very few people who knows the situation and how it feels to have someone do a live talk on YouTube spreading flat out lies and misleading a lot of people. And basically stealing our work for the last 4 years.

I appreciate the things you said, thanks again.

 

[buttercup]

Well, let me suggest a few things:

1. Nobody would "like" being in the position some of the psalmists are in. It sounds like they are on the brink of all that is horrible.

2. Christ promised his grace through those who maintain faith through suffering.

3. This is what separates an atheist, secularist, or even some Protestants from us Catholics. The former views suffering, strife, and confusion as completely apart from Christ, and Catholicism views these things as a cross to bear. This pressure doesn't come naturally or immediate, but it's correct.

4. Those in first world living have many misconceptions of what is expected of them. You could be expected to have your house, family, and all that is known in your eyes torn from you like the book of Job, and you'd still not only have to, but want to, praise the Lord despite your grief.

It can seem Cold, but God's love is not only cold, but also warm and just. He understands your situations.

I agree, and I don't think that idea is limited to Catholicism. It's biblical, to persevere and be patient and to rejoice, even in suffering and tribulation. Because we know who is in control.

And this is totally random, but you just reminded me of this song. If you listen to the lyrics, it's about what you just mentioned, praising God not just when it's sunshine and rainbows but also through the storms.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I don't think that idea is limited to Catholicism. It's biblical

The 2 are inseparable. This coming from a Lutheran convert to Catholicism.

 

[buttercup]

The 2 are inseparable. This coming from a Lutheran convert to Catholicism.

What I meant was, it's a general Christian belief. Initially I had the word "just" there, before biblical, but I took out that word.

 

[Meriweather]

If you read the Psalms, you quickly see that one of the major themes is believers calling out to God for justice and vindication when they’ve been wronged by the wicked.

In such situations it may be helpful to read what else God has to say when people find they are being wronged by the wicked. I am not suggesting one way is better than another, but that it may depend on the circumstances one finds oneself.

Letter to the Exiles in Babylon (Jeremiah 29:1-7)

These are the words of the scroll which Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem to the remaining elders among the exiles, to the priests, the prophets, and all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar exiled from Jerusalem to Babylon.

This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, the artisans and smiths had left Jerusalem.

Delivered in Babylon by Elasah, son of Shaphan, and by Gemariah, son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah, king of Judah, sent to the king of Babylon, the letter read:

Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, to all the exiles whom I exiled from Jerusalem to Babylon:

Build houses and live in them; plant gardens and eat their fruits.

Take wives and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters. Increase there; do not decrease.

Seek the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you; pray for it to the LORD, for upon its welfare your own depends.


I like this because it does not advise the people to assimilate and become like their captors--and do not decrease. The passage goes on to say in the fullness of time ('70' is the number that is used to symbolize fullness/completeness) deliverance will occur. We are often amazed by what the final result when waiting on God's time (while continuing to pray, of course).

 

[ding]

But sometimes you just don't know if that justice will come here, in the land of the living.... or not until judgement day, lol. And if it's the latter, that's the thing that can be challenging to deal with.

I think it's both. God is constantly pruning us. To the discerning, we can see it in our lives.... sometimes... but it's not always readily apparent in the lives of others. It's that lack of perfect information coupled with progress isn't always in a straight line. It can be hard to trust but the peace you (and all of us) are seeking is found in that trust.

But yes, it is quite challenging. It's not easy. It's hard.

 

[DennisPTate]

If you read the Psalms, you quickly see that one of the major themes is believers calling out to God for justice and vindication when they’ve been wronged by the wicked.

Here are just a few examples….

Psalm 35:1-2​

​

Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;​

fight against those who fight against me!​

Take hold of shield and buckler​

and rise for my help!​

Psalm 40:13-14​

​

Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me;​

O Lord, make haste to help me!​

Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion​

Who seek to destroy my life;​

Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor​

Who wish me evil.​

Psalm 94:1-3​

​

O Lord, the God who avenges!​

O God who avenges, reveal your splendor.​

Rise up, O judge of the earth.​

Pay back the proud.​

O Lord, how long will the wicked,​

how long will the wicked celebrate?​

The reason I’m bringing this up is because I’ve been dealing with an infuriating situation (long story, but I talked about it on this thread) and I can deeply relate to the psalmists crying out to God for justice.

Also, seeing evil in the world in general - for example, extremely powerful people being involved in heinous crimes and apparently getting away with it (at least on this side of heaven) - just adds to the overall feeling of demoralization and frustration.

What are your thoughts on those types of psalms? There are some that are really harsh. (The ones I posted are relatively mild.)

Even as I’m writing this, I’m remembering that in the New Testament, we are told to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Do you believe that some of those Old Testament “imprecatory prayers” are wrong, in light of the New Testament?

I say there’s a big difference between praying for someone’s destruction or damnation…and praying for their eyes to be opened, and that they’ll repent and be redeemed. Or in other words, simply praying for justice.


Here’s an excerpt from gotquestions.org, on this topic:

While Jesus Himself quoted some imprecatory psalms (John 2:17; 15:25), He also instructed us to love our enemies and pray for them (Matthew 5:44–48; Luke 6:27–38). The New Testament makes it clear that our enemy is spiritual, not physical (Ephesians 6:12). It is not sinful to pray the imprecatory psalms against our spiritual enemies, but we should also pray with compassion and love and even thanksgiving for people who are under the devil’s influence (1 Timothy 2:1). We should desire their salvation. After all, God “is patient . . . not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). Above all things, we should seek the will of God in everything we do and, when we are wronged, leave the ultimate outcome to the Lord (Romans 12:19).​

​

The bottom line is that the imprecatory psalms communicate a deep yearning for justice, written from the point of view of those who had been mightily oppressed. God’s people have the promise of divine vengeance: “Will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly” (Luke 18:7–8; cf. Revelation 19:2).​

To the believers here, what are your thoughts on this, and can you too relate to the psalmists?

[Former Covering Cherub Helel], Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan never.... ever wins... over the long term..... . against his Creator.

But Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan may well be doing PSYCHOLOGICAL RESEARCH on the eight thousand five hundred or so most wealthy individuals on earth.......

and on the ten million or so, C.E.O.'s, Hollywood movie stars, rock stars, elected officials, medical bureaucrats....... that they have placed in the highest and most influential places, [Dr. Tony Fauci would be one good example of this]!

The Dr. Stanley Milgram research fits amazingly well with the Book of Job.

Zone1 Thread 'Does Satan work for Jesus?'

Dec 7, 2025

I admit that this question is going to be rather controversial but a pretty powerful case can be presented from The Book of Job as well as from the Christian scriptures that perhaps, Satan is obeying every command that he receives from Jesus, [who apparently has the authority to send people like near death experiencer Robert Marshall back to this earth with a mission that is relevant for all doctors and all nurses and all medical personnel in the USA and Canada and all the world]!

So if Satan is working for Jesus what is his job perhaps rather like?

Well, on one level I believe that...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 124
• Forum: Clean Debate Zone

• 
• 

....

[Near death experiencer Dr. Richard Eby] :

Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

“You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

“Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving.”

Jesus paused again.

“My book tells of the time when Lucifer’s rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father’s throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed ‘adversary’ of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God’s other creations. In my book we call this disharmony ‘sin’, because it defies God’s will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

“But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan’s world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!”

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The wealthiest of the wealthy....
when they got Dr. Tony Fauci to do research on Beagles......
who was really being studied?????? Was it the Beagles..... or was it Dr. Tony?

I submit that Dr. Tony was being studied to see if he had nearly zero empathy or compassion.....

That reminds me of what is termed.....
"The Judas Betrayal Power Ritual."

If you would like to know what a "Judas Betrayal Power Ritual" is.......
it is explained in this interview.

The Story Behind the Mysterious Death of the Most Famous Satanist in America​

 

[buttercup]

In such situations it may be helpful to read what else God has to say when people find they are being wronged by the wicked. I am not suggesting one way is better than another, but that it may depend on the circumstances one finds oneself.

Letter to the Exiles in Babylon (Jeremiah 29:1-7)

These are the words of the scroll which Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem to the remaining elders among the exiles, to the priests, the prophets, and all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar exiled from Jerusalem to Babylon.

This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, the artisans and smiths had left Jerusalem.

Delivered in Babylon by Elasah, son of Shaphan, and by Gemariah, son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah, king of Judah, sent to the king of Babylon, the letter read:

Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, to all the exiles whom I exiled from Jerusalem to Babylon:

Build houses and live in them; plant gardens and eat their fruits.

Take wives and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters. Increase there; do not decrease.

Seek the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you; pray for it to the LORD, for upon its welfare your own depends.


I like this because it does not advise the people to assimilate and become like their captors--and do not decrease. The passage goes on to say in the fullness of time ('70' is the number that is used to symbolize fullness/completeness) deliverance will occur. We are often amazed by what the final result when waiting on God's time (while continuing to pray, of course).

Good idea, thanks for sharing that passage. One thing's for sure...throughout the bible we can see the theme that God delivers His own. And we don't have to worry about justice not prevailing, it definitely does. It's just a matter of when....whether it happens now or later.

 

[buttercup]

I think it's both. God is constantly pruning us. To the discerning, we can see it in our lives.... sometimes... but it's not always readily apparent in the lives of others. It's that lack of perfect information coupled with progress isn't always in a straight line. It can be hard to trust but the peace you (and all of us) are seeking is found in that trust.

But yes, it is quite challenging. It's not easy. It's hard.

I agree, good points. And btw pruning is not fun. But when you learn to trust...even in the dark... I definitely agree that that's where true peace is found. It took me many years to learn that, but I have been learning that, just through all sorts of experiences. That reminds me of the verse "taste and see that the Lord is good." (Psalm 34:8) which has to do with firsthand experience.

 

[buttercup]

[Former Covering Cherub Helel], Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan never.... ever wins... over the long term..... . against his Creator.

But Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan may well be doing PSYCHOLOGICAL RESEARCH on the eight thousand five hundred or so most wealthy individuals on earth.......

and on the ten million or so, C.E.O.'s, Hollywood movie stars, rock stars, elected officials, medical bureaucrats....... that they have placed in the highest and most influential places, [Dr. Tony Fauci would be one good example of this]!

The Dr. Stanley Milgram research fits amazingly well with the Book of Job.

Zone1 Thread 'Does Satan work for Jesus?'

Dec 7, 2025

I admit that this question is going to be rather controversial but a pretty powerful case can be presented from The Book of Job as well as from the Christian scriptures that perhaps, Satan is obeying every command that he receives from Jesus, [who apparently has the authority to send people like near death experiencer Robert Marshall back to this earth with a mission that is relevant for all doctors and all nurses and all medical personnel in the USA and Canada and all the world]!

So if Satan is working for Jesus what is his job perhaps rather like?

Well, on one level I believe that...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 124
• Forum: Clean Debate Zone

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The wealthiest of the wealthy....
when they got Dr. Tony Fauci to do research on Beagles......
who was really being studied?????? Was it the Beagles..... or was it Dr. Tony?

I submit that Dr. Tony was being studied to see if he had nearly zero empathy or compassion.....

That reminds me of what is termed.....
"The Judas Betrayal Power Ritual."

If you would like to know what a "Judas Betrayal Power Ritual" is.......
it is explained in this interview.

The Story Behind the Mysterious Death of the Most Famous Satanist in America​

That documentary looks interesting. Since it's more than 2 hours, I'll watch it later when I have time... And I'll check out your thread too. Thanks.