CDZ When does the sanctity of life run out ?

[JGalt]

T

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

It's not just the car. The criminal who steals the car often uses it to commit more crimes, thereby endangering other people's lives as well.

Therefore they still deserve to be shot.

 

[night_son]

T

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

By definition of their very purpose--transporting people to a destination--cars can exceed the value of a human life for the value of other human life such as those described in my first response.

Now would I kill someone for stealing a car out of a dealer's lot? Well, let's take a look.

Dealer's car stolen from lot. Dealer loses money he could have used to take care of family. Or the person interested in that specific car now cannot purchase it. But it was the only car they could afford on the only lot in town. Now, without affordable transportation, they cannot get a job to feed themselves or their family. So killing that particular brand of car thief is also justifiable.

What about the car thief who gets away because you would not stop him who in a panic to avoid authorities by driving at high speeds crashes into another vehicle driven by a father with his family aboard? By not killing the car thief, you've instead killed an entire family. That's pure irresponsibility.

 

[fncceo]

Im not particularly religious but "thou salt not kill" seems to be good advice

‘Thou shalt not kill’ is a mistranslation of the Biblical Hebrew injunctive of ‘You will not murder.’

Murder is a non-judicial termination of a human life. Judicially sanctioned life termination is biblically approved.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

T

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

It's not just the car. The criminal who steals the car often uses it to commit more crimes, thereby endangering other people's lives as well.

Therefore they still deserve to be shot.

But you dont know that. It might happen but it might not.

"Thou shalt not kill" vs something that may or may not happen.

Has God given you discretionary powers ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

T

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

By definition of their very purpose--transporting people to a destination--cars can exceed the value of a human life for the value of other human life such as those described in my first response.

Now would I kill someone for stealing a car out of a dealer's lot? Well, let's take a look.

Dealer's car stolen from lot. Dealer loses money he could have used to take care of family. Or the person interested in that specific car now cannot purchase it. But it was the only car they could afford on the only lot in town. Now, without affordable transportation, they cannot get a job to feed themselves or their family. So killing that particular brand of car thief is also justifiable.

What about the car thief who gets away because you would not stop him who in a panic to avoid authorities by driving at high speeds crashes into another vehicle driven by a father with his family aboard? By not killing the car thief, you've instead killed an entire family. That's pure irresponsibility.

Thats a huge amount of projection going on their.
"Thou shalt not kill".

 

[WillowTree]

How many times has a car owner ever killed the thief?

 

[WillowTree]

T

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

By definition of their very purpose--transporting people to a destination--cars can exceed the value of a human life for the value of other human life such as those described in my first response.

Now would I kill someone for stealing a car out of a dealer's lot? Well, let's take a look.

Dealer's car stolen from lot. Dealer loses money he could have used to take care of family. Or the person interested in that specific car now cannot purchase it. But it was the only car they could afford on the only lot in town. Now, without affordable transportation, they cannot get a job to feed themselves or their family. So killing that particular brand of car thief is also justifiable.

What about the car thief who gets away because you would not stop him who in a panic to avoid authorities by driving at high speeds crashes into another vehicle driven by a father with his family aboard? By not killing the car thief, you've instead killed an entire family. That's pure irresponsibility.

Thats a huge amount of projection going on their.
"Thou shalt not kill".

Thou shalt not steal.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Im not particularly religious but "thou salt not kill" seems to be good advice

‘Thou shalt not kill’ is a mistranslation of the Biblical Hebrew injunctive of ‘You will not murder.’

Murder is a non-judicial termination of a human life. Judicially sanctioned life termination is biblically approved.

Fascinating. Not an interpretation I have seen before.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

T

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

By definition of their very purpose--transporting people to a destination--cars can exceed the value of a human life for the value of other human life such as those described in my first response.

Now would I kill someone for stealing a car out of a dealer's lot? Well, let's take a look.

Dealer's car stolen from lot. Dealer loses money he could have used to take care of family. Or the person interested in that specific car now cannot purchase it. But it was the only car they could afford on the only lot in town. Now, without affordable transportation, they cannot get a job to feed themselves or their family. So killing that particular brand of car thief is also justifiable.

What about the car thief who gets away because you would not stop him who in a panic to avoid authorities by driving at high speeds crashes into another vehicle driven by a father with his family aboard? By not killing the car thief, you've instead killed an entire family. That's pure irresponsibility.

Thats a huge amount of projection going on their.
"Thou shalt not kill".

Thou shalt not steal.

But God will judge the thieves ?

 

[Vastator]

The lives of the innocent are sacred.

That’s a threadkill folks...

 

[night_son]

T

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

It's not just the car. The criminal who steals the car often uses it to commit more crimes, thereby endangering other people's lives as well.

Therefore they still deserve to be shot.

But you dont know that. It might happen but it might not.

"Thou shalt not kill" vs something that may or may not happen.

Has God given you discretionary powers ?

Neither do you know or can promise me the car thief will not cause other loss of life. See how that kind or absolutist reasoning works?

No. God has put me on this Earth as a big brother and uncle and a son. And with this mind and heart and these hands I can do nothing better or worse than protect them however and wherever the need presents.

Using God to blame reasoning in one post and promote it in another is fine, but at some point you must admit that either you believe and your philosophical proselytizing is germane to your arguments, or you don't and you're just using God to win just like you accuse the believer of doing.

 

[tycho1572]

Here is how it should end. However, the thief could had lost his life had he made the wrong move.

That was an awesome vid that demonstrates the importance of being a responsible gun owner. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[JGalt]

T

The thing is a given person might have a family. Their family needs to be fed, clothed and prescriptions purchased for them. The person's car gets them to work. Without the ability to work the person cannot get paid. No pay. No taking care of the family.

The answer: harming or killing the car thief keeps family alive. Car thief dies every time.

Youth can be a beautiful set of blinders. Saving the world and preserving all life sounds great. But either you have something to protect and you do, or you philosophize away the responsibility and let them starve.

Or

How about the child stricken with leukemia? How will her parents get her to treatment if they allow the thief to walk.

How will a mother get to the store to buy food or medicine?

In every case existential value cannot be placed on the hunk of metal with wheels. Its meaning exceeds its materialistic composition.

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

It's not just the car. The criminal who steals the car often uses it to commit more crimes, thereby endangering other people's lives as well.

Therefore they still deserve to be shot.

But you dont know that. It might happen but it might not.

"Thou shalt not kill" vs something that may or may not happen.

Has God given you discretionary powers ?

God hasn't. But the laws of my state, the laws of my country, Gaston Glock, and the Hornady Ammunition Company have given me discretionary powers.

I'll put my faith and trust in them.

 

[2aguy]

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

I wouldn't kill over a car......in the one thread I started about a fireman, the car jacker tried to run over the victim, who then shot the car thief......that wasn't about the car, that was about attempted murder.

I think for clarity, we need to know..... is this theft a car jacking? Or does the victim simply see the thief taking the car?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

T

Insurance covers car theft.it may be inconvenient for a little while but you get your money back. Your examples are not valid.

Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

It's not just the car. The criminal who steals the car often uses it to commit more crimes, thereby endangering other people's lives as well.

Therefore they still deserve to be shot.

But you dont know that. It might happen but it might not.

"Thou shalt not kill" vs something that may or may not happen.

Has God given you discretionary powers ?

Neither do you know or can promise me the car thief will not cause other loss of life. See how that kind or absolutist reasoning works?

No. God has put me on this Earth as a big brother and uncle and a son. And with this mind and heart and these hands I can do nothing better or worse than protect them however and wherever the need presents.

Using God to blame reasoning in one post and promote it in another is fine, but at some point you must admit that either you believe and your philosophical proselytizing is germane to your arguments, or you don't and you're just using God to win just like you accuse the believer of doing.

So God is telling you to kill beause you face material loss ?

 

[2aguy]

The lives of the innocent are sacred.

And thieves in the process of robbing other people are putting their own lives at risk. The OP does not seem to understand that. That being said, I would rather the thief experience jail time.

Its about proportionality. Im not particularly religious but "thou salt not kill" seems to be good advice.

The sixth commandment must cover car jackers ?

"Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not murder." Would you also condemn a police officer who shoots a knife-wielding terrorist in downtown London? How about British Special Forces killing ISIS shitheads in Syria?

Is that "murder"?

You give extreme examples that are not really germane.
But.........................
If a person was in the act of killing people then it could possibly be justified.
If they are just stealing something then "things" can be replaced. A life cant be replaced.

If a person was in the act of killing people then it could possibly be justified.

If that is the situation, killing the murderer is justified....no ifs ands or buts....

 

[night_son]

T
Abortion is like shooting a car thief their when there is no car.

Like killing a man standing in an empty parking lot.

It is attacking the most innocent , , , a life incapable of defending itself. That is the mother's duty.

Your lack of responsibility to family is stunning.

Dismissing my argument without debate, philosophy or array of reasoning proves you did not come here to debate but to preach.

Disappointing.

Yiour arguments are weak. Cars can be replaced, people cant be .

It's not just the car. The criminal who steals the car often uses it to commit more crimes, thereby endangering other people's lives as well.

Therefore they still deserve to be shot.

But you dont know that. It might happen but it might not.

"Thou shalt not kill" vs something that may or may not happen.

Has God given you discretionary powers ?

Neither do you know or can promise me the car thief will not cause other loss of life. See how that kind or absolutist reasoning works?

No. God has put me on this Earth as a big brother and uncle and a son. And with this mind and heart and these hands I can do nothing better or worse than protect them however and wherever the need presents.

Using God to blame reasoning in one post and promote it in another is fine, but at some point you must admit that either you believe and your philosophical proselytizing is germane to your arguments, or you don't and you're just using God to win just like you accuse the believer of doing.

So God is telling you to kill beause you face material loss ?

So this is a troll thread?

I have patiently reasoned out your topic with you from my point of view forwarding the philosophy at its center: personal responsibility and defense of family. Are you sincerely searching for answers to the big moral questions or not? If so lets have your honest opinions not Party one liners.

I suspect you just want to make Christians and Right leaning members look like idiots. That's a shame. Come better equipped next time.

Later.

 

[JGalt]

The lives of the innocent are sacred.

And thieves in the process of robbing other people are putting their own lives at risk. The OP does not seem to understand that. That being said, I would rather the thief experience jail time.

Its about proportionality. Im not particularly religious but "thou salt not kill" seems to be good advice.

The sixth commandment must cover car jackers ?

"Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not murder." Would you also condemn a police officer who shoots a knife-wielding terrorist in downtown London? How about British Special Forces killing ISIS shitheads in Syria?

Is that "murder"?

You give extreme examples that are not really germane.
But.........................
If a person was in the act of killing people then it could possibly be justified.
If they are just stealing something then "things" can be replaced. A life cant be replaced.

If a person was in the act of killing people then it could possibly be justified.

If that is the situation, killing the murderer is justified....no ifs ands or buts....

Texans get it. From Texas statutes:

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

 

[Leo123]

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

There is no sanctity of life in nature. Animals kill other animals for instance. Even dogs can kill the offspring of rivals. Indeed humans have done the same when conquering other humans. Standing for the sanctity of life is one of the things that separate humans from animals and inhumane humans.

 

[EGR one]

Based on other threads I have read on here.

People are quite comfortable in killing criminals who steal their cars.

How does that square with the sanctity of life ?

Is a lump of metal worth a life ?

The people pushing this extremism are vocally anti abortion.

I just dont get it.

Either life is sacred or it isnt.

When does the concern accorded to a mass of tissues expire ?

At birth ?

Either life is sacred or it is worth less than a lump of metal.

Life is sacred and the only morally justified reason for taking someone else's life is to protect your own life, or the lives of others.