What would America be like if the anti-Abortion types win?

[JoeB131]

In addition to this being a total lie, I'm pretty sure it qualifies you as an actual Nazi.

Congratulations.

Hey, just pointing out the obvious.

If you raise a kid in poverty where he gets the blame for the economic woes of parents who never got to go to college or learn a trade and get a good job, his chances of growing up to be criminally inclined greatly increases.

So not surprisingly, when abortion became legal as a form of contraception,and women could put off making their babies until they were actually ready, 20 years after that, the crime rate DROPPED.

Abortion and crime: who should you believe? - Freakonomics

1) Five states legalized abortion three years before Roe v. Wade. Crime started falling three years earlier in these states, with property crime (done by younger people) falling before violent crime.

2) After abortion was legalized, the availability of abortions differed dramatically across states. In some states like North Dakota and in parts of the deep South, it was virtually impossible to get an abortion even after Roe v. Wade. If one compares states that had high abortion rates in the mid 1970s to states that had low abortion rates in the mid 1970s, you see the following patterns with crime. For the period from 1973-1988, the two sets of states (high abortion states and low abortion states) have nearly identical crime patterns. Note, that this is a period before the generations exposed to legalized abortion are old enough to do much crime. So this is exactly what the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts. But from the period 1985-1997, when the post Roe cohort is reaching peak crime ages, the high abortion states see a decline in crime of 30% relative to the low abortion states. Our original data ended in 1997. If one updated the study, the results would be similar.)

3) All of the decline in crime from 1985-1997 experienced by high abortion states relative to low abortion states is concentrated among the age groups born after Roe v. Wade. For people born before abortion legalization, there is no difference in the crime patterns for high abortion and low abortion states, just as the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts.

 

[occupied]

The anti-abortion people have never thought about the aftermath should they succeed and will absolutely refuse to do so.

 

[JoeB131]

The anti-abortion people have never thought about the aftermath should they succeed and will absolutely refuse to do so.

No reason for them to. They've got Jesus on their side.

 

[Blues Man]

How many abortions are performed annually in the US?

The average birth rate is dropping like a rock.

We are in no danger of becoming overpopulated

Um, no, our population growth is still going up. I know a lot of that is Darkies and that upsets you wingnuts terribly, but we aren't in danger of running out of people.

The point I was making is that banning abortion wouldn't result in more live babies, it would result in more maimed and dead women.. This is what the Philippines is already finding out, where abortions are illegal and they have more per capita than we have.

JoeB's agenda seems to be entirely made out of hating America and wanting to depopulate us. He hates us because he is a communist who hates capitalism, and America has forever proven that capitalism works a billion times better than communism. Of course he will come back with "oh but it wasn't real...", but the fact still remains.

This isn't a discussion about economic systems, all of which suck for the majority of humanity. There are more people living in hunger and poverty than can call themselves "Free" in the world.

This is a discussion about what this country would look like if you anti-choice nuts got your way on stuff. Well, there is already ONE country that has done what you guys do, it's called the Philippines, and it's an absolute fucking humanitarian disaster.

U.S. Birthrate Drops 4th Year in a Row, Possibly Echoing the Great Recession

The birth rate is dropping steadily

The United States’ birthrate fell for a fourth consecutive year in 2018, bringing the number of people born in the country to its lowest level in 32 years, according to provisional figures published on Wednesday by the federal government. It said the fertility rate in the United States also fell to a record low.

The 2018 total fertility rate, which is an estimate of the number of children born over a woman’s lifetime, also fell to a record low of 1,728 births per 1,000 women, according to the report.
That is below the rate at which a generation can replace itself, a deficit that has occurred every year for the last 10 years and has become almost expected in the United States since 1971. The report calculated the replacement level as 2,100 births per 1,000 women.

 

[OldLady]

All their screaming about "infanticide" aside, do you ever wonder what our country would look like if the Anti-Choice fanatics got their way.

Well, thanks to the modern miracles of actually understanding there is a rest of the world out there, we have a real life example.

The Philippines, former American Colony, has exactly the kind of anti-choice laws you guys want.

How's that working out.. Well, let's review.

Unintended Pregnancy and Unsafe Abortion in the Philippines

• The Philippines abortion law is among the strictest in the world. Abortion is illegal under all circumstances and there are no explicit exceptions. Nonetheless, because of high levels of unintended pregnancy, abortion is common in the country. Projections that were based on the national abortion rate in 2000 (the most recent available) and that took into account population increase estimated that 560,000 abortions occurred in 2008 and 610,000 abortions took place in 2012.[2,8,9]

• About 1,000 Filipino women die each year from abortion complications, which contributes to the nation’s high maternal mortality rate. Projections that were based on data from 2000 indicate that 100,000 women were hospitalized for abortion complications in 2012; countless others suffered complications that went untreated.[4,9]

• The stigma surrounding abortion makes it difficult for women to seek postabortion care. Some women report feeling shamed and intimidated by health care workers and in some cases, women are not given pain relievers or anesthetics or are denied treatment all together. Others report being threatened that they would be turned over to the police.[5,8]

All their screaming about "infanticide" aside, do you ever wonder what our country would look like if the Anti-Choice fanatics got their way.

Well, thanks to the modern miracles of actually understanding there is a rest of the world out there, we have a real life example.

The Philippines, former American Colony, has exactly the kind of anti-choice laws you guys want.

How's that working out.. Well, let's review.

Unintended Pregnancy and Unsafe Abortion in the Philippines

• The Philippines abortion law is among the strictest in the world. Abortion is illegal under all circumstances and there are no explicit exceptions. Nonetheless, because of high levels of unintended pregnancy, abortion is common in the country. Projections that were based on the national abortion rate in 2000 (the most recent available) and that took into account population increase estimated that 560,000 abortions occurred in 2008 and 610,000 abortions took place in 2012.[2,8,9]

• About 1,000 Filipino women die each year from abortion complications, which contributes to the nation’s high maternal mortality rate. Projections that were based on data from 2000 indicate that 100,000 women were hospitalized for abortion complications in 2012; countless others suffered complications that went untreated.[4,9]

• The stigma surrounding abortion makes it difficult for women to seek postabortion care. Some women report feeling shamed and intimidated by health care workers and in some cases, women are not given pain relievers or anesthetics or are denied treatment all together. Others report being threatened that they would be turned over to the police.[5,8]

Are you too young to remember yourself what it would be like, Joe? I'm not. Of course, being female, I probably was more aware of it than you.

If you were a young unmarried woman or girl and found yourself pregnant, the most common answer was to marry--and quick. There was still quite a stigma about bastards at the time. If the young man involved was not willing to go that route, you could "go to visit a relative" in another part of the country for, say, a year or so, during which time you would have the child and place it for adoption.

Or you could try various self-abort procedures, like pushing yourself down the stairs on your belly, the fabled coat hanger or knitting needles procedure, drinking seriously harmful herbal concoctions, or if you had the money and the connections, visit an illegal abortion "doctor" who would reach into your womb with (hopefully clean) spatulas and scrape away the offending embryo. If you were REALLY rich, Daddy could pay a doctor five or ten times the going rate for a "D & C" under a mild sedative, just not at the hospital where the products of conception would have been spotted.

Having done amateur genealogy on my family, I was surprised--but not really--at the spur of the moment marriages (and healthy six month babies) and "trips to California" that happened in my family. Sometimes a girl would go away for awhile, come back and suddenly her mother or older sister would have a newborn baby. It was not uncommon at all for a woman to find herself with an unplanned pregnancy--good, decent, hard working, well raised women. It happens.

Of course, two things happened at about the same time in this country--The Pill and Roe v. Wade. It's a little hard to sort out which had more impact on our view of sex.

So with good birth control readily available and much better sex education being disseminated to our young people, illegal abortion will hopefully not be as common as it was in the past. But Shit Happens and all the above will continue to happen.

Great article on the history of abortion--puts it into a little better perspective, I think.
Lessons from Before Roe: Will Past be Prologue?

 

[Flash]

America would be a much more moral country if we stopped murdering our children on demand, for the sake of convenience.

 

[BlueGin]

America would be a much more moral country if we stopped murdering our children on demand, for the sake of convenience.

Convenience and politics. Left wingers don’t really care about abortion. And they really don’t care about women’s safety. If they did they wouldn't keep deregulating the industry’s safety standards.

 

[JoeB131]

The birth rate is dropping steadily

The United States’ birthrate fell for a fourth consecutive year in 2018, bringing the number of people born in the country to its lowest level in 32 years, according to provisional figures published on Wednesday by the federal government. It said the fertility rate in the United States also fell to a record low.

So what? This is really a good thing. The world is already overpopulated.

The 2018 total fertility rate, which is an estimate of the number of children born over a woman’s lifetime, also fell to a record low of 1,728 births per 1,000 women, according to the report.
That is below the rate at which a generation can replace itself, a deficit that has occurred every year for the last 10 years and has become almost expected in the United States since 1971. The report calculated the replacement level as 2,100 births per 1,000 women.

Again, we have plenty of immigrants coming here to make up for people not wanting to make babies because they have better things to do with their lives. Of course, they won't be white, which has you upset, but I'm not bothered so much by it.

 

[basquebromance]

"Pro-lifers, being morally defective, support executing convicted criminals and sparing unborn babies. Pro-choicers, being morally superior, support executing unborn babies and sparing convicted criminals."

 

[JoeB131]

Are you too young to remember yourself what it would be like, Joe? I'm not. Of course, being female, I probably was more aware of it than you.

If you were a young unmarried woman or girl and found yourself pregnant, the most common answer was to marry--and quick. There was still quite a stigma about bastards at the time. If the young man involved was not willing to go that route, you could "go to visit a relative" in another part of the country for, say, a year or so, during which time you would have the child and place it for adoption.

Well, I'm 57, so I was born before Roe.

I guess the question is, how far do you want to go back. While I agree with your overall comments, the thing was, by 1973, coat hangers and back alley abortions were a thing of the past. Most abortions were performed by OB/GYN's in offices, and they wrote something else down on the charts.

The Justices (including 5 republicans) probably thought they were getting rid of laws that were being routinely ignored by that point, so no one would really object, just like no one had really objected 8 years earlier when they got rid of unworkable contraception laws in Griswald v. Connecticut.

Boy, were they wrong.

 

[Blues Man]

The birth rate is dropping steadily

The United States’ birthrate fell for a fourth consecutive year in 2018, bringing the number of people born in the country to its lowest level in 32 years, according to provisional figures published on Wednesday by the federal government. It said the fertility rate in the United States also fell to a record low.

So what? This is really a good thing. The world is already overpopulated.

The 2018 total fertility rate, which is an estimate of the number of children born over a woman’s lifetime, also fell to a record low of 1,728 births per 1,000 women, according to the report.
That is below the rate at which a generation can replace itself, a deficit that has occurred every year for the last 10 years and has become almost expected in the United States since 1971. The report calculated the replacement level as 2,100 births per 1,000 women.

Again, we have plenty of immigrants coming here to make up for people not wanting to make babies because they have better things to do with their lives. Of course, they won't be white, which has you upset, but I'm not bothered so much by it.

So you're we're going to be overpopulated with poor kids who grow up to be criminals argument is utter bullshit.

You seem to forget that my mother was 1/2 Black
This is the 7th or 8th time I've told you that. Are you sure you don't have a brain tumor or dementia

I don't care who is born or what race they are but you sure seem to

 

[miketx]

All their screaming about "infanticide" aside, do you ever wonder what our country would look like if the Anti-Choice fanatics got their way.

Well, thanks to the modern miracles of actually understanding there is a rest of the world out there, we have a real life example.

The Philippines, former American Colony, has exactly the kind of anti-choice laws you guys want.

How's that working out.. Well, let's review.

Unintended Pregnancy and Unsafe Abortion in the Philippines

• The Philippines abortion law is among the strictest in the world. Abortion is illegal under all circumstances and there are no explicit exceptions. Nonetheless, because of high levels of unintended pregnancy, abortion is common in the country. Projections that were based on the national abortion rate in 2000 (the most recent available) and that took into account population increase estimated that 560,000 abortions occurred in 2008 and 610,000 abortions took place in 2012.[2,8,9]

• About 1,000 Filipino women die each year from abortion complications, which contributes to the nation’s high maternal mortality rate. Projections that were based on data from 2000 indicate that 100,000 women were hospitalized for abortion complications in 2012; countless others suffered complications that went untreated.[4,9]

• The stigma surrounding abortion makes it difficult for women to seek postabortion care. Some women report feeling shamed and intimidated by health care workers and in some cases, women are not given pain relievers or anesthetics or are denied treatment all together. Others report being threatened that they would be turned over to the police.[5,8]

Then when YOU murder a baby you would be executed.

 

[JoeB131]

Convenience and politics. Left wingers don’t really care about abortion. And they really don’t care about women’s safety. If they did they wouldn't keep deregulating the industry’s safety standards.

Bullshit. The "safety standards" having nothing to do with safety, they are to make running a clinic so expensive and troublesome that it isn't worth the bother.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Funny thing happened 20 years after we legalized abortion. The crime rate started dropping... all those future crooks ended up in medical waste containers and we were all better off for it.

In addition to this being a total lie, I'm pretty sure it qualifies you as an actual Nazi.

Congratulations.

Margret Sanger, the patron saint of abortion was an actual and in fact Nazi, so it makes sense.

{
Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, has an ignoble legacy as a racist who addressed the Ku Klux Klan and initiated a Negro Project to reduce the population of poor, uneducated African Americans whom she considered unfit to reproduce themselves. This Margaret Sanger—the real Margaret Sanger—is completely whitewashed in Parenthood propaganda, which deceitfully portrays Sanger as a champion of reproductive “choice.”

Even more incriminating than Sanger’s racism, however, is her close association with Nazism. Sanger was part of a community of American progressives who championed two remedies to get rid of “unfit” populations. The first was forced sterilization, which was Sanger’s preferred solution.

Sanger wanted to make it look like the sterilizations were voluntary. In a 1932 article, Sanger called for women to be segregated from the larger community onto “farms and homesteads” where they would be “taught to work under competent instructors” and prevented from reproducing “for the period of their entire lives.” If the women didn’t want to live this way, they could get out of it by consenting to be sterilized.2

The other progressive solution was “euthanasia,” which basically involved killing off the sick, the aged, and the physically and mentally disabled. One of Sanger’s colleagues, the California progressive Paul Popenoe, called for “lethal chambers” so that large numbers of “unfit” people could be systematically lined up and killed.3

The Nazis learned about these American programs, and enthusiastically adopted them. As Edwin Black documents in his book The War Against the Weak, the Nazi sterilization law of 1933 and the subsequent Nazi euthanasia laws were both based on blueprints drawn up by Sanger, Popenoe and other American progressives.4}

Exclusive – D'Souza: The Hitler-Sanger Connection | Breitbart

 

[JoeB131]

So you're we're going to be overpopulated with poor kids who grow up to be criminals argument is utter bullshit.

Not at all. I'm sorry you didn't understand the argument. It's not just poor kids, it's UNWANTED kids. Kids who grow up with the burden that "you ruined my life you little bastard" because they were raised by people who didn't want them and had no capablity to raise them.

Every child a wanted child.

You seem to forget that my mother was 1/2 Black
This is the 7th or 8th time I've told you that. Are you sure you don't have a brain tumor or dementia

Um, no, I Just don't really believe a fucking thing you say...

But even if I did, the worst kind of racist is the self-loathing kind. This buys you nothing with me. The fact you are willing to throw in with the racists on every issue, whether it be gun control ("it's just the darkies shooting each other, so no problem') or abortion (Oh, my god, we aren't making enough babies to keep up with the darkies) says it all.

 

[JoeB131]

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, has an ignoble legacy as a racist who addressed the Ku Klux Klan and initiated a Negro Project to reduce the population of poor, uneducated African Americans whom she considered unfit to reproduce themselves. This Margaret Sanger—the real Margaret Sanger—is completely whitewashed in Parenthood propaganda, which deceitfully portrays Sanger as a champion of reproductive “choice.”

again, the sad thing is you really believe this crap.

The African American community WELCOMED Sanger's efforts, because while white folks did have access to contraception at the time, poor black communities didn't.

Also- Sanger herself opposed abortion, because in the 1920's, it was a largely unsafe procedure in that wonderful era before antibiotics.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, has an ignoble legacy as a racist who addressed the Ku Klux Klan and initiated a Negro Project to reduce the population of poor, uneducated African Americans whom she considered unfit to reproduce themselves. This Margaret Sanger—the real Margaret Sanger—is completely whitewashed in Parenthood propaganda, which deceitfully portrays Sanger as a champion of reproductive “choice.”

again, the sad thing is you really believe this crap.

The African American community WELCOMED Sanger's efforts, because while white folks did have access to contraception at the time, poor black communities didn't.

Also- Sanger herself opposed abortion, because in the 1920's, it was a largely unsafe procedure in that wonderful era before antibiotics.

“Access to contraception”
Animals in the animal kingdom stop procreating when resources are limited...I’m pretty sure they are aren’t using contraception...They are using intelligence. What does that tell you?

 

[Hale]

In addition to this being a total lie, I'm pretty sure it qualifies you as an actual Nazi.

Congratulations.

Hey, just pointing out the obvious.

If you raise a kid in poverty where he gets the blame for the economic woes of parents who never got to go to college or learn a trade and get a good job, his chances of growing up to be criminally inclined greatly increases.

So not surprisingly, when abortion became legal as a form of contraception,and women could put off making their babies until they were actually ready, 20 years after that, the crime rate DROPPED.

Abortion and crime: who should you believe? - Freakonomics

1) Five states legalized abortion three years before Roe v. Wade. Crime started falling three years earlier in these states, with property crime (done by younger people) falling before violent crime.

2) After abortion was legalized, the availability of abortions differed dramatically across states. In some states like North Dakota and in parts of the deep South, it was virtually impossible to get an abortion even after Roe v. Wade. If one compares states that had high abortion rates in the mid 1970s to states that had low abortion rates in the mid 1970s, you see the following patterns with crime. For the period from 1973-1988, the two sets of states (high abortion states and low abortion states) have nearly identical crime patterns. Note, that this is a period before the generations exposed to legalized abortion are old enough to do much crime. So this is exactly what the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts. But from the period 1985-1997, when the post Roe cohort is reaching peak crime ages, the high abortion states see a decline in crime of 30% relative to the low abortion states. Our original data ended in 1997. If one updated the study, the results would be similar.)

3) All of the decline in crime from 1985-1997 experienced by high abortion states relative to low abortion states is concentrated among the age groups born after Roe v. Wade. For people born before abortion legalization, there is no difference in the crime patterns for high abortion and low abortion states, just as the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts.

Your assertion that "more abortion = less crime" is a classic example of not understanding that correlation does not equal causation. If fact, it's so absurd that even the Leftist Wikipedia lumps it in with an equally flawed hypothesis that "unleaded gas = less crime".

Regardless, you've just unwittingly provided even more proof that you are, in fact, a literal Nazi. You openly advocate the destruction of life which you call "prone to crime", so it logically follows that you would have no problem at all exterminating inner city children and young adults who are demonstrably even more prone to crime under your standards.

 

[basquebromance]

no me importa el aborto

it doesn't matter if you abort, you can have another kid anytime you want!

if you were born, and you enjoy being alive, that makes you pro-life!

 

[Hale]

If you were a young unmarried woman or girl and found yourself pregnant, the most common answer was to marry--and quick. There was still quite a stigma about bastards at the time. If the young man involved was not willing to go that route, you could "go to visit a relative" in another part of the country for, say, a year or so, during which time you would have the child and place it for adoption.

I'll give you this: Admitting your ignorance is at least a step towards wisdom. While it obviously took you a long time to equate the sex act to pregnancy, I think you are well outside the norm in this department. Young ladies in the era of which you speak did not "find themselves pregnant", they knew damn well what caused it.