What To Do About Larry?

Bonnie

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Truth and consequences
Kathleen Parker


February 19, 2005


If I were Harvard President Lawrence Summers - given Womanhood's reaction to his suggestion that innate gender differences might account for men's higher achievement in math and science - I'd be sorely tempted at this point to say: "I rest my case."

Or, alternatively, ". and the horse you rode in on."

Instead, despite having apologized for speaking an unpopular truth, Summers will be the subject of an emergency faculty meeting scheduled Tuesday at which Harvard professors will discuss: What to do about Larry?

Right off, I'd say give the man a raise for honesty, a brand-new armored Humvee for courage, and, behind curtain No. 3, an all-expense-paid Hawaii vacation surrounded by beautiful women in grass skirts whose idea of chemistry is what happens between men and women on moonlit nights.

Just for fun.

The past few weeks following Summers' blasphemous remarks at an economics conference have been embarrassing for some of us gals. Maybe I spend too much time with men - can there be such a thing? - but I'm finding the fair sex to be most unfair and somewhat short-staffed in the logic and reason departments.

What Summers said, in terms that left a reasonable amount of wiggle room for reasonable people, happens to be factually, biologically, chemically, genetically, anecdotally and historiagraphically true. Even if it makes some tortured academics reach for the fainting couch.

He did not say that women are dumb, as some claimed in the immediate aftermath. He did not say that women are incapable of doing as well as men in math and science. He merely said that, given the many possible explanations for why men as a group actually do perform better than women as a group - consistently testing better in those areas - that biological differences might be worth considering.

Heresy.

The truth is, Summers' suggestion is neither radical nor provocative. It's old news that boys do better than girls in math and science, and that girls do better in the reading and areas requiring verbal skills. Yet, you don't see men lurching for smelling salts when they hear this. Instead, they stroke their chins and say, "Hmmm, maybe I need a new razor."

Why can't women do that? Why not respond without emotion, grab a government grant and explore methods of teaching science and mathematics in ways that females learn best? Instead, some women have reacted as though their corsets were too tight. Male chauvinist pigs (remember them?) can take a vacation as long as women like MIT biology professor Nancy Hopkins are defending women's intellect. Upon hearing Summers' words, Hopkins told reporters that she felt she was going to be sick. That her "heart was pounding" and her "breath was shallow . I just couldn't breathe ."

Rhett, oh Rhett, get that woman a julep, for cryin' out loud.

As nursemaids and parents of real children have always known, boys and girls are different, including their wiring and the way they learn and process information. There is, moreover, a growing body of scientific evidence that girls and boys have different aptitudes based on brain-based gender differences.

Boys are better at spatial skills and abstract cognition, which gives them an advantage in math. Their brains also make them adept at working with lists, giving them an advantage on multiple-choice questions and possibly explaining why they tend to score slightly better than girls on standardized tests.

This gap has narrowed in recent years as tests have begun to include more essay-style questions, at which girls tend to do better. Otherwise, girls are far exceeding boys in school at nearly every level. Sixty percent of college students today are female. At the high school level, girls receive 60 percent of the A's, while boys earn 70 percent of the D's and F's, according to Michael Gurian, author of "Boys and Girls Learn Differently."

In his book, Gurian, an educator and therapist, argues that some boy-girl differences won't ever change owing to brain-based causes. While obviously many women will excel in science and many men will excel in literature, there's no reason to insist that all others should, could or would want to.

The larger, more compelling concern to educators would seem to be helping boys improve their reading and writing skills so that they can survive in the information age, rather than counting the number of female Ph.D.s in science as some measure of gender equality.

Meanwhile, it's too bad Summers felt forced to apologize and that he faces further censure from faculty. When the president of the nation's oldest university has to say he's sorry for saying something true, the opposite of Truth seems the victor.


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/printkp20050219.shtml
 
Kind of interesting given all the talk about Churchill's 'academic freedom,' hmmm? Guess that only works for those that are PC in their remarks. He did preface before saying anything. He has apologized in a way Eason Jordan did not, several times. He has published the whole record of what was said.
 
The left are putting a lot of thought into what they could possibly do to repair their image in the arena of ideas. Here's a thought: Maybe they could stop behaving like tyrannical, hypocritical ninnies.

But then, of course, they would cease to be the left.
 
musicman said:
The left are putting a lot of thought into what they could possibly do to repair their image in the arena of ideas. Here's a thought: Maybe they could stop behaving like tyrannical, hypocritical ninnies.

But then, of course, they would cease to be the left.

Where are they doing that? I keep seeing nonsense from the left. Howard Dean making racist joke and trying to keep his 'debate' out of the medium. They are blinded by the darkness and I see no hope that they are reconsidering anything, even perceptions.
 
larry asked a question....he asked why is it that.....he said is it possible that....

there are not enough women in science and math why?

oh yes descrimination.....

now before i get flamed....i am a partner in an architectural firm, i run one of the studios .... have been for ten years, there are thirty people in the studio.... i have a leadership group that reports to me 2 of the 8 are women, the next tier 1 of the 4, the next tier 6 of 7 are women, the last group is the future generation of leaders that have been specifically identified and will be trained as the furtuer leaders .... now for the stange part the 2 that are in the leadership group came from an all female class of 8 ... 6 dropped out to have children and stay at home...

is it possible that?
 
manu1959 said:
larry asked a question....he asked why is it that.....he said is it possible that....

there are not enough women in science and math why?

oh yes descrimination.....

now before i get flamed....i am a partner in an architectural firm, i run one of the studios .... have been for ten years, there are thirty people in the studio.... i have a leadership group that reports to me 2 of the 8 are women, the next tier 1 of the 4, the next tier 6 of 7 are women, the last group is the future generation of leaders that have been specifically identified and will be trained as the furtuer leaders .... now for the stange part the 2 that are in the leadership group came from an all female class of 8 ... 6 dropped out to have children and stay at home...

is it possible that?

Here's the transcipt:

http://www.president.harvard.edu/speeches/2005/nber.html

I fail to see what the brouhaha is about. Read the whole thing, I'm concentrating on his 'problem.':

Setting the context:

I asked Richard, when he invited me to come here and speak, whether he wanted an institutional talk about Harvard's policies toward diversity or whether he wanted some questions asked and some attempts at provocation, because I was willing to do the second and didn't feel like doing the first. And so we have agreed that I am speaking unofficially and not using this as an occasion to lay out the many things we're doing at Harvard to promote the crucial objective of diversity. There are many aspects of the problems you're discussing and it seems to me they're all very important from a national point of view. I'm going to confine myself to addressing one portion of the problem, or of the challenge we're discussing, which is the issue of women's representation in tenured positions in science and engineering at top universities and research institutions, not because that's necessarily the most important problem or the most interesting problem, but because it's the only one of these problems that I've made an effort to think in a very serious way about. The other prefatory comment that I would make is that I am going to, until most of the way through, attempt to adopt an entirely positive, rather than normative approach, and just try to think about and offer some hypotheses as to why we observe what we observe without seeing this through the kind of judgmental tendency that inevitably is connected with all our common goals of equality. It is after all not the case that the role of women in science is the only example of a group that is significantly underrepresented in an important activity and whose underrepresentation contributes to a shortage of role models for others who are considering being in that group.

Opening of his problem, if he had made #2, into #3, perhaps it would have helped? No, no how:

There are three broad hypotheses about the sources of the very substantial disparities that this conference's papers document and have been documented before with respect to the presence of women in high-end scientific professions. One is what I would call the-I'll explain each of these in a few moments and comment on how important I think they are-the first is what I call the high-powered job hypothesis. The second is what I would call different availability of aptitude at the high end, and the third is what I would call different socialization and patterns of discrimination in a search. And in my own view, their importance probably ranks in exactly the order that I just described.

What he's being slaughtered for:

The second thing that I think one has to recognize is present is what I would call the combination of, and here, I'm focusing on something that would seek to answer the question of why is the pattern different in science and engineering, and why is the representation even lower and more problematic in science and engineering than it is in other fields. And here, you can get a fair distance, it seems to me, looking at a relatively simple hypothesis. It does appear that on many, many different human attributes-height, weight, propensity for criminality, overall IQ, mathematical ability, scientific ability-there is relatively clear evidence that whatever the difference in means-which can be debated-there is a difference in the standard deviation, and variability of a male and a female population. And that is true with respect to attributes that are and are not plausibly, culturally determined. If one supposes, as I think is reasonable, that if one is talking about physicists at a top twenty-five research university, one is not talking about people who are two standard deviations above the mean. And perhaps it's not even talking about somebody who is three standard deviations above the mean. But it's talking about people who are three and a half, four standard deviations above the mean in the one in 5,000, one in 10,000 class. Even small differences in the standard deviation will translate into very large differences in the available pool substantially out. I did a very crude calculation, which I'm sure was wrong and certainly was unsubtle, twenty different ways. I looked at the Xie and Shauman paper-looked at the book, rather-looked at the evidence on the sex ratios in the top 5% of twelfth graders. If you look at those-they're all over the map, depends on which test, whether it's math, or science, and so forth-but 50% women, one woman for every two men, would be a high-end estimate from their estimates. From that, you can back out a difference in the implied standard deviations that works out to be about 20%. And from that, you can work out the difference out several standard deviations. If you do that calculation-and I have no reason to think that it couldn't be refined in a hundred ways-you get five to one, at the high end. Now, it's pointed out by one of the papers at this conference that these tests are not a very good measure and are not highly predictive with respect to people's ability to do that. And that's absolutely right. But I don't think that resolves the issue at all. Because if my reading of the data is right-it's something people can argue about-that there are some systematic differences in variability in different populations, then whatever the set of attributes are that are precisely defined to correlate with being an aeronautical engineer at MIT or being a chemist at Berkeley, those are probably different in their standard deviations as well. So my sense is that the unfortunate truth-I would far prefer to believe something else, because it would be easier to address what is surely a serious social problem if something else were true-is that the combination of the high-powered job hypothesis and the differing variances probably explains a fair amount of this problem.

There may also be elements, by the way, of differing, there is some, particularly in some attributes, that bear on engineering, there is reasonably strong evidence of taste differences between little girls and little boys that are not easy to attribute to socialization. I just returned from Israel, where we had the opportunity to visit a kibbutz, and to spend some time talking about the history of the kibbutz movement, and it is really very striking to hear how the movement started with an absolute commitment, of a kind one doesn't encounter in other places, that everybody was going to do the same jobs. Sometimes the women were going to fix the tractors, and the men were going to work in the nurseries, sometimes the men were going to fix the tractors and the women were going to work in the nurseries, and just under the pressure of what everyone wanted, in a hundred different kibbutzes, each one of which evolved, it all moved in the same direction. So, I think, while I would prefer to believe otherwise, I guess my experience with my two and a half year old twin daughters who were not given dolls and who were given trucks, and found themselves saying to each other, look, daddy truck is carrying the baby truck, tells me something. And I think it's just something that you probably have to recognize. There are two other hypotheses that are all over. One is socialization. Somehow little girls are all socialized towards nursing and little boys are socialized towards building bridges. No doubt there is some truth in that. I would be hesitant about assigning too much weight to that hypothesis for two reasons. First, most of what we've learned from empirical psychology in the last fifteen years has been that people naturally attribute things to socialization that are in fact not attributable to socialization. We've been astounded by the results of separated twins studies. The confident assertions that autism was a reflection of parental characteristics that were absolutely supported and that people knew from years of observational evidence have now been proven to be wrong. And so, the human mind has a tendency to grab to the socialization hypothesis when you can see it, and it often turns out not to be true. The second empirical problem is that girls are persisting longer and longer. When there were no girls majoring in chemistry, when there were no girls majoring in biology, it was much easier to blame parental socialization. Then, as we are increasingly finding today, the problem is what's happening when people are twenty, or when people are twenty-five, in terms of their patterns, with which they drop out. Again, to the extent it can be addressed, it's a terrific thing to address.
 
guess i was taking the long way around the barn

architecture is a math and science field...physics, claculus, statistics, structural engineering are all required classes and you get to take 1 each per quarter for six quarters

long and short is women do better than men in my office they just tend to drop out to have familys

as for larry he is a moron .... universties are one of the most intollerant good olde boy networks that exists .... but if i was a woman i would not be complaining about why they won't let me join a club of morons
 
Kathianne said:
Where are they doing that? I keep seeing nonsense from the left. Howard Dean making racist joke and trying to keep his 'debate' out of the medium. They are blinded by the darkness and I see no hope that they are reconsidering anything, even perceptions.



Ah, you're quite right. What I should have said is that the left are seeking to SYMBOLICALLY - rather than substantively - address their deficits. They're expending great energy trying to APPEAR more in tune with America - and failing miserably, of course.

Dealing with the substance of problems is SUCH a drag...
 
musicman said:
Ah, you're quite right. What I should have said is that the left are seeking to SYMBOLICALLY - rather than substantively - address their deficits. They're expending great energy trying to APPEAR more in tune with America - and failing miserably, of course.

Dealing with the substance of problems is SUCH a drag...

Well it's SO subtle, that I am missing it! :scratch:
 

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