What possessed science to do this?

[Mr. P]

Thats whats interesting--there certainly are two factions that think something is out there. Something we don't know everything about yet. I like hearing why both factions believe thier manner of learning and seeking is superior to the other.

No, I don't think so. One faction thinks it's possible, the other is sure...neither have proof. Yet.

 

[dilloduck]

No, I don't think so. One faction thinks it's possible, the other is sure...neither have proof. Yet.

One faction is sure there Is a "god". The other faction thinks WHAT is possible.?

 

[Mr. P]

One faction is sure there Is a "god". The other faction thinks WHAT is possible.?

Most anything, I guess.

 

[dilloduck]

Most anything, I guess.

Anything ?? Like aliens finding our "essence" on a disc carried by a space probe? Sounds as far fetched as some other theories I've heard.

 

[Mr. P]

Anything ?? Like aliens finding our "essence" on a disc carried by a space probe? Sounds as far fetched as some other theories I've heard.

Yep, that's what ya get for living in Texas.

 

[dilloduck]

Yep, that's what ya get for living in Texas.

:gross2:

I reckon

 

[Mr.Conley]

As far as I know aliens are a figment of mans' desire to have company.
There is no proof they exist or ever have existed.

1. Just because there is no proof that something exists, that in itself doesn't preclude its ever existing. For a long time, no one in Europe knew the New World existed, but that does not mean their were no Americas to discover.

2. I think you should be introduced to the Drake Equation

Humans have been emitting radio-transmitted messages out into the universe for decades now in the hopes of communicating with exterrestrial intelliegence?. Unfortunately, we haven’t had any responses. Although “absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence”, as Carl Sagan said, the lack of success of the SETI program to date makes you wonder what the chances of communicating with ETs actually are.

In order to determine the chances, radio astronomer Frake Drake came up with an equation that estimates the number of civilizations? in the galaxy which might be capable of interstellar radio communication. Drake’s equation? is:


N = R* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

This equation consists of 8 variables, all of which are explained below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

N is the number of civilizations within our galaxy that are capable (technology-wise) of communicating with us.

R* is the average rate of star formation in our galaxy. This value is currently thought to be approximately 20 stars per year.

fp is the fraction of these stars that have planetary systems. The fraction of stars with planets in our galaxy is one of the unknown factors in Drake’s Equation. The Hubble Space Telescope has spotted multiple “protoplanetary disks" (orbiting debris of gas and dust around a star out of which planets are thought to be formed) around stars. Astronomers have also discovered massive planets resembling Jupiter orbiting stars. These observations indicate that planetary systems could be common throughout the galaxy.

ne is the number of planets that have environments suitable to the development of life in each system. In other words, how many earth-like planets are there? Planets that are in the habitable zone? of a star are able to maintain a temperature that would allow liquid water, and life as we know it needs liquid water to develop and survive.

fl is the fraction of these planets that actually have life. Just because a planet is in the habitable zone of a star doesn’t mean that planet will have life. Other factors such as an abundance of certain chemicals and a continual source of energy are necessary for life to develop.

fi is the fraction of these planets that have intelligent life. Intelligence could just be a fluke. Biologist Ernst Mayr noted that “It took intelligence millions of years to evolve on Earth, and it only involved once out of a billion species of earthly animals”. Intelligent life on other planets in the galaxy is likely to be as rare.

fc is the fraction of the species of intelligent life that have developed technology for interstellar communication. Consider the hundreds of thousands of species on Earth. Only we, the human race, have developed any form of technology. Also, just because an intelligent species is capable of interstellar communication, who knows whether they’d have the desire or ambition to initiate such communication?

L is the average lifetime of a technological civilization, or the length of time civilizations release detectable signals into space. This is one of the most difficult factors of the Drake equation to estimate. When species have developed technology capable of sending messages out into space, they most likely also have the technology to (inadvertently) destroy themselves.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Drake’s equation begins with the greatest number of possibilites and multiplies that number by percentages until the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy is reduced to a probable figure. The neat thing about this equation is that you aren’t just limited to calculating the number of civilizations capable of communication. You can stop at any point in the equation to calculate other factors, such as the fraction of planets that harbor life, or the number of earth-like planets in the galaxy.

Until we can confidently plug in numbers for each variable of Drake’s Equation, we cannot accurately predict the value for ‘N’, which is the number of civilizations in our galaxy capable of communicating with us. However, the equation gives a scientifically-grounded basis for speculating whether or not we are alone in the universe.

Go to http://www.ibiblio.org/astrobiology/index.php?page=drake to calculate the number of civilizations yourself.

 

[Mr. P]

No one will talk to us if they ever recieve signals from the I Love Lucy show.

 

[dilloduck]

1. Just because there is no proof that something exists, that in itself doesn't preclude its ever existing.

Isn't that what religious people say?

 

[Diuretic]

Just because there is no proof that something exists, that in itself doesn't preclude its ever existing.

Isn't that what religious people say?

No. Religious people say, "I believe". And they say that in the absence of evidence because personal faith doesn't require evidence.

It seems to me that the first statement is sound. There could be an alien base on the Moon. I have no proof of it but that doesn't mean it's not there, it just means I have no proof of its existence. Whether or not I believe it's there is irrelevant to its existence or non-existence. The only way to prove it exists is to find evidence of it.

 

[dilloduck]

No. Religious people say, "I believe". And they say that in the absence of evidence because personal faith doesn't require evidence.

It seems to me that the first statement is sound. There could be an alien base on the Moon. I have no proof of it but that doesn't mean it's not there, it just means I have no proof of its existence. Whether or not I believe it's there is irrelevant to its existence or non-existence. The only way to prove it exists is to find evidence of it.

Religious people believe they have found a "path". They don't claim to know all the answers. Science established has a method--it doesn't know all the answers either.
Christians use the Bible for evidence.

 

[bobn]

It's a logical deduction. We know there is life on one planet. We see many more planets out there and so we deduct that it is possible there will be life on some of those other planets too.

 

[dilloduck]

It's a logical deduction. We know there is life on one planet. We see many more planets out there and so we deduct that it is possible there will be life on some of those other planets too.

Inductive reasoning ?

There is life on earth
therefore
there is life on other planets.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Its an inductive process.
We know their are over 400 billion stars in the Milky Way.

Of that about 15-25% are like our sun.

Of those, about 90% are likely to have some planets

Of those planets, X% are in the habitable range and meet all criteria for life

Of those habitable planets, X% have actually produced life

Of those planets that have produced life, X% have intelligent life

The numbers I have given are pretty accurate, the X's are the ones we have no idea what the answer is; however, we can plug in our own numbers to guess at the total number of civilizations in the galaxy

Because of the size of the galaxy, even if we make everysingle X variable 1%, we still get 72,000 different civilizations just in this galaxy. Heck we can make every variable .001 and still get 72 civilizations and an additional 72,000 worlds with some form of life. What the equation shows is that, even if we assume life is a very rare, there is still probably a multitude of life in the universe..

 

[dilloduck]

Its an inductive process.
We know their are over 400 billion stars in the Milky Way.

Of that about 15-25% are like our sun.

Of those, about 90% are likely to have some planets

Of those planets, X% are in the habitable range and meet all criteria for life

Of those habitable planets, X% have actually produced life

Of those planets that have produced life, X% have intelligent life

The numbers I have given are pretty accurate, the X's are the ones we have no idea what the answer is; however, we can plug in our own numbers to guess at the total number of civilizations in the galaxy

Because of the size of the galaxy, even if we make everysingle X variable 1%, we still get 72,000 different civilizations just in this galaxy. Heck we can make every variable .001 and still get 72 civilizations and an additional 72,000 worlds with some form of life. What the equation shows is that, even if we assume life is a very rare, there is still probably a multitude of life in the universe..

Like I said--inductive not deductive.
ie--its a good wager that they is life elsewhere in the universe
Now THAT will motivate me took chunk all spiritual thought and experience.
Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Mr.Conley]

Yea, the discs were placed on the crafts because there is likely some other form of life in the galaxy, not any supernatural beliefs.

No one said you have to. "to chunk all spiritual thought and experience," because of it.

 

[dilloduck]

Yea, the discs were placed on the crafts because there is likely some other form of life in the galaxy, not any supernatural beliefs.

No one said you have to. "to chunk all spiritual thought and experience," because of it.

ahhh--math says there is a possibilty of alien life forms. Aren't alien life forms considered "supernatural" ?

So can math say with certainty the is no God? If so do you have the formula on ya?

 

[Diuretic]

Nah, ghosts are supernatural, aliens are just regular folks. Sort of.

 

[Mr.Conley]

No, aliens are not considered "supernatural." "Supernatural," means of or relating to existence outside the natural world.

Aliens, if they exist can be explained very easily using our current knowledge of the universe.

No there is no formula for God, just aliens.

 

[bobn]

It's no different from an island race who had never left their little island, but could see hundreds of other islands out there, theorising that perhaps there were different civilisations on some of the other islands. I think that's good induction (yea I got it wrong when I said it was deduction) because it is based on the premise that one island is already known to have a civilisation on.

On the otherhand theorising that perhaps there are ghosts on other islands is not inductive logic as not one example of ghosts on an island is known to base the premise on.